Continue the discussion from the Milestones thread here. Milestones thread is obviously for milestones.

Please keep the thread related to the title. Thanks All.

If someone is sad, because of his own RAC which is lower than others RAC?
If someone is jealous, because of others higher RAC?

If Siran d'Vel'nahr (the opener of this thread) would like to extend the thread rules to:
08. It's not allowed to post in this thread if your RAC is > 10,000.

Then I'll never again post here in this thread.


My nice RAC is not for nothing.
My both PCs take 1,080 W (1.08 kWh) out of the wall plug.
This are 2,220.- €/year. Current 3,310.- US$/year.
I bought equipment for 5,200.- € (7,750.- US$) only for SETI@home.

Yes - hmm.. I'm not proud - I'm happy to support my loved project with this high RAC.
I'm a normal hard working worker and have no big earnings - and for to pay this high electricity bill I give up other things.


A green star near the nick in this forum for 10.- US$ ?
This will help this project for continuously server uptime?


If you look to the top_user_list with green stars, mostly US people.
Why can the members only donate with credit card?
We europeans normally don't have and use credit cards, we use the EC card - so not possible to donate.


Sorry Siran d'Vel'nahr for to be offtopic with this post, but I thought I need to write my opinion.

It'll be a sad day if SETI has to close (in some shape or form) because people couldn't give a crap if they donate or not.

Yes, I do see you support the project by donating your CPU cycles. But if you can afford to have that much of a RAC, you can afford a measly 10 bucks.

I do believe there are infact other ways to donate than by credit card, no? Last time I donated they had a number of options.

Luke......

While at times it might seem to be a good way.....
It's not.

Boinc is a way of getting folks to donate computer time to their project of choice. Repeat.....their choice.

It's up to the benefactors of a specific project to support it or not.

Seti@Home has many supporters with their computing expertise.

They just need a few more that will pony up with their monetary resources.

And if you try to enforce a donation.....many would just dry up and go away.

It's hard enough to get those of use who feel strongly about the project to up the ante, much less those who could give a rat's ***.

Understood. It's a fine line between being forceful for donations and just asking for them. But, my fear is that this project will not be able to continue if less than 0.01% donate...

- Luke.

All opinions are welcome. Remember to keep it civil.

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- Luke.

What is SETI@home?
SETI@home is a scientific experiment that uses Internet-connected computers in the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI). You can participate by running a free program that downloads and analyzes radio telescope data.
Thats what seti says...
Forcing people to donate will mean there will always be plenty of work for the few that are left.
I have made a couple donations by choice, putting pressure on me makes me want to back away. JMO

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Well, I finally saw my RAC hit over 2000 so I doubt I'll ever have to worry about the 25,000 limit someone mentioned in the other thread but I've managed to keep my little green star shining as often as I can. I'm proud to do what little I can to keep SETI running but if I ever felt the powers that be think I must donate then I probably would leave. That would be too much like a fee to give of my time and resources. I enjoy running SETI and give what I can.

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PROUD MEMBER OF Team Starfire World BOINC

Luke.......use the force, Luke.........LOL.

All BS aside........

I have tried before to coerce and embarrass my fellow crunchers into joining me in sporting a star.........

They just don't get it.

A couple of thousand for a sporty new cruncher and Cuda card.......
But not a ten spot for the project they espouse to support.

I just don't get it.

And I have been told in shaded terms to shut up and mind my own business.......shucks folks, I thought I was minding my back door.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Not wanting to start a side controversy about whether Brits are Europeans, but I am a European Brit, and I hold more than one credit card - and I wouldn't use any of them to donate to SETI.

I use a debit card issued by a well-known mutal savings society, and it's accepted just fine. It's good for me (no charges, good exchange rate), and it's good for the project (lower transaction fees charged by the bankers). In my experience, any plastic payment facility bearing either a Visa or MasterCard logo is likely to work.

So I fear that the people who just look at the words "credit card" on the donation page, and say they can't contribute, may be deceiving themselves. Freedom of choice - to donate, or not to donate - is wider than you may be thinking.

S@H most likely WILL close if not enough donations will be received. It's invitable. Shame on you Top 20.

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- Luke.

Not wanting to start a side controversy about whether Brits are Europeans, but I am a European Brit, and I hold more than one credit card - and I wouldn't use any of them to donate to SETI.

I use a debit card issued by a well-known mutal savings society, and it's accepted just fine. It's good for me (no charges, good exchange rate), and it's good for the project (lower transaction fees charged by the bankers). In my experience, any plastic payment facility bearing either a Visa or MasterCard logo is likely to work.

So I fear that the people who just look at the words "credit card" on the donation page, and say they can't contribute, may be deceiving themselves. Freedom of choice - to donate, or not to donate - is wider than you may be thinking.

And I also realize that there have been problems in the past for folks trying to donate via Paypal....may still be so.
But PM Uli.....she may be able to help you.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

From site:

PayPal users: We have temporarily suspended direct paypal donations due to some communications difficulties. Our apologies for the inconvenience.

Well, is it temporary or not? Fix paypal support. It *is* the mechanism many use exclusively for *any* internet related transation. And yes, I have good reasons, so no lectures please.

Cheers & Peace.

From site:

PayPal users: We have temporarily suspended direct paypal donations due to some communications difficulties. Our apologies for the inconvenience.

Well, is it temporary or not? Fix paypal support. It *is* the mechanism many use exclusively for *any* internet related transation. And yes, I have good reasons, so no lectures please.

Cheers & Peace.

Paypal donations were handled through a volunteer who happened to be outside the United States, and because he was not a U.S. Citizen, and was not operating where the U.S. Government had jurisdiction, he could take the money and pass it on to SETI@Home without being subject to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service.

I hope Simon is okay, and I wish him well wherever he is.

I'd volunteer, but the tax implications are daunting, because I am a U.S. Citizen and in the U.S.

As part of the University of California, SETI@Home reaps many benefits, and has a couple of rules they must follow. Money has to come through the Campus donations office, they cannot take donations directly.

That's fine, because there are lots of benefits to that, but it limits what they can do.

As Richard pointed out, Central Donations takes plastic. Visa, MasterCard or American Express.

Giving from overseas often means bank fees like crazy. A credit card donation for $30 may "net" more to Cal than a check for $50 written on a foreign bank.

In the U.S. WalMart sells a $50 American Express gift card for $54.64. There may be similar deals in other countries -- as has been posted in other links.

In other words, be creative. I've heard that some banks will issue "temporary" single-use credit card numbers without actually issuing a card. For 52 Aces, that may be a way to donate via "plastic" and not expose your own bank account to hacking.

PayPal issues "credit cards" as well.

Central Donations does not take PayPal, and hasn't shown an interest in doing so. I wish they would, just because PayPal works from most anywhere.

I've not seen anything from any official source that would suggest "mandatory cash donations."

I'll also suggest that the grocery store where Eric and Angela shop does not take clock cycles. Neither does PG&E. Some things need cash.

So, if you can kick in $10 or $20, it's very welcome. Call it "work unit insurance...."

---

I hope Simon is okay, and I wish him well wherever he is.

I miss him still........any word on what happened to him or where he is would be blessed.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

From site:

PayPal users: We have temporarily suspended direct paypal donations due to some communications difficulties. Our apologies for the inconvenience.

Well, is it temporary or not? Fix paypal support. It *is* the mechanism many use exclusively for *any* internet related transation. And yes, I have good reasons, so no lectures please.

Cheers & Peace.

Does your local University accept tuition payments via PayPal? Why do you expect the University of California to accept PayPal? It is a quasi-government institution. I'm sure the average donation to them has a couple more zeros than what we give. Their system is set up for that kind of donation. BTW SETI doesn't see any of that money.

As I understand it Uli has many ways to get small amounts from overseas to SETI. PM her.

I think the web page is out of date.
[edit fixed links]

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As the former donations coordinator, I can say that I was told by Matt himself that the UNIVERSITY has decided not to accept the Paypal donations. The decision was made from above in terms of Seti staff and my understanding is they have no way to reverse it.

Please remember all--that not all those who don't sport Green Stars haven't given. Everyone has the right (and option) to keep their donations confidential and not sport a Green Star if they don't wish to.

Please respect that choice.

I also find the suggestion below to be nothing less than an insult:

If Siran d'Vel'nahr (the opener of this thread) would like to extend the thread rules to:
08. It's not allowed to post in this thread if your RAC is > 10,000.

We have many people who crunch with minimal farm capabilities or even a single laptop/desktop. EVERY PERSON'S CRUNCHING IS POSITIVE--you limit that and it'll drive people away-guaranteed.

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Good Evening Everyone

The wife and I spent another day driving around Seattle. As I am tired some thoughts might not be clear (not to mention my fingers can not type that fast).

Ever since my wife told me that "we" should do Seti back in Jan 2000, and Strived that is Important. I have been hooked.

My intention was not to stir an issue about donations. What came across was as stated in my last post that the little users that have been crunching for a very long time can not compete with the mega crunchers. They have the same rights to respect as does anyone. It seemed that every other post was the same user(s) stating my RAC has grown this much. Some of those users have climbed other the backs of others to get to where they can post in such a fashion. What irks me is there is little thank you for the information that they did nothing to "learn." Without saying names Mark (and others not wanting to embarass or omit anyone) has did so much for the Seti Community that allows that to happen. We will leave that there.

As for trying to force some users to realize that without supporting (feeding the goose that lays the golden eggs) they will be placed in a situation where the goose dies of starvation. Thanks to the Users that do support, the trickles have managed to keep the doors open.

PayPal

The University refuses to go there. Yes I miss Simon Also, I was one of his first Alpha Testers and spent the time to to get him connected with Eric. My last email to him went unresponded (yes there was concern in my heart my hopes were something happened that just caused him change his life. I do not know). Over time and many discussions a Trust was built and PayPal happened. Lunatics is now being hosted inside the US and that raises the ugly IRS issue. For those that do read over in Lunatics you can see Pappa listed as an Alpha Tester (and others).


Green Star

I can turn it on or off. There are many that have it turned of for many reasons. I choose to display mine. Please respect that privacy.

All that said, donations are always Welcome to Seti. It allows the Users with a RAC of 68 that have been crunching for 10+ years to keep crunching.

At points in time, Eric stated that some of my small hardware contribuions helped to keep the hardware running. I know the names of the basic 5 people that built Bruno to get Seti out of trouble (most chose not to have anything mentioned about the names of the people that made it happen). I know of several that have put a lot of hardware into the survival of Seti. I managed to get a very good deal on the 1st Gigabit Switch to ease the internal network congestion. That is not a brag; but a statement that I have and others have invested as much (time and money) as I/WE can to make sure I have a place to follow what I/WE believe in. For myself, I have seen the Server Closet, and know that a part of "me" lives there. That makes me proud.
NO, I do not have the money to support a Top 100 machine (nor would I want to, that would take away from other things that are important to my famly's life). I just want to balance what I can support with Seti and what Life makes me do. Seti asks no more from anyone. Seti does need "our" support. It is up to each individual yo decide. We need to do what "WE" can.

Everything said I need to get some rest, the wife and I have training to attend in the morning and it will be a long drive and day.

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

As the former donations coordinator, I can say that I was told by Matt himself that the UNIVERSITY has decided not to accept the Paypal donations. The decision was made from above in terms of Seti staff and my understanding is they have no way to reverse it.

If enough people wanted to pay for football tickets with PayPal then the University would take it. Once they take it for one thing, they can take it for all. SETI can't reverse it, but the Regents can, and would if they felt there was a reason. SETI isn't a reason.

Please remember all--that not all those who don't sport Green Stars haven't given. Everyone has the right (and option) to keep their donations confidential and not sport a Green Star if they don't wish to.

Please respect that choice.

I also find the suggestion below to be nothing less than an insult:

If Siran d'Vel'nahr (the opener of this thread) would like to extend the thread rules to:
08. It's not allowed to post in this thread if your RAC is > 10,000.

We have many people who crunch with minimal farm capabilities or even a single laptop/desktop. EVERY PERSON'S CRUNCHING IS POSITIVE--you limit that and it'll drive people away-guaranteed.

My take is the people who are building farms of crunch machines aren't doing what the program was designed for. The program was to use space cycles from existing machines. Not contribute to global warming by having dedicated crunch machines.

I agree any limit and you will drive people away.

A thought might be to, next time those funding letters go out, take the credits earned and divide by the cost of the project so each person know how much they should send in based on what they are doing. I don't know if that would work or backfire. Heck maybe a picture of a baby alien and a suggestion of how much a day to feed them ...

It isn't just SETI that needs a donation to continue, Arecibo also needs funding and there is a contribute button on their home page as well.

I know there is an issue with our foreign crunchers getting their money here. Moneychangers steal you blind and more so on small amounts. There has to be a way around it. Put on your thinking caps, but remember that one end is a Government University who isn't going to do anything complex, costly or shady for the miniscule percentage they get from our donations.

I just had one. Has the project asked The Planetary Society if perhaps they could take PayPal donations and then send them on? I do see that the Planetary Society accepts PayPal, they are a 501(c)3 no IRS issue and they support SETI. Obviously they would have to recoup PayPal's fee and a bit for their book keeping but it has to be less than what MC/Visa charge.

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Without saying names Mark (and others not wanting to embarass or omit anyone) has did so much for the Seti Community that allows that to happen. We will leave that there.

I expect I might see an apology directly from you then........for your trashing of me and my wicked ways

You want him to apologise for acknowledging that you've done a lot to help others crunch for Seti? Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense. And your following post makes even less sense.
Possibly you've posted in the wrong thread?

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Grant
Darwin NT

Paypal donations were handled through a volunteer who happened to be outside the United States, and because he was not a U.S. Citizen, and was not operating where the U.S. Government had jurisdiction, he could take the money and pass it on to SETI@Home without being subject to the U.S. Internal Revenue Service.

I hope Simon is okay, and I wish him well wherever he is.

I'd volunteer, but the tax implications are daunting, because I am a U.S. Citizen and in the U.S.

I would be happy to volunteer as I am neither a U.S. citizen nor operating in an area where the U.S. Govt has jurisdiction (well as far as that is possible in this world). I however have no idea what is required, so if this would be useful, let me know: what, where, when, how etc...

Without saying names Mark (and others not wanting to embarass or omit anyone) has did so much for the Seti Community that allows that to happen. We will leave that there.

I expect I might see an apology directly from you then........for your trashing of me and my wicked ways

You want him to apologise for acknowledging that you've done a lot to help others crunch for Seti? Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense. And your following post makes even less sense.
Possibly you've posted in the wrong thread?

Could be........it was very late.

Or not......

I have been known to get rather nasty defending my turf.
Sorry 'bout that. Bad habit of mine.

I shall stand down now.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

My take is the people who are building farms of crunch machines aren't doing what the program was designed for. The program was to use space cycles from existing machines. Not contribute to global warming by having dedicated crunch machines.

I agree any limit and you will drive people away.

A thought might be to, next time those funding letters go out, take the credits earned and divide by the cost of the project so each person know how much they should send in based on what they are doing. I don't know if that would work or backfire. Heck maybe a picture of a baby alien and a suggestion of how much a day to feed them ...

It isn't just SETI that needs a donation to continue, Arecibo also needs funding and there is a contribute button on their home page as well.

I know there is an issue with our foreign crunchers getting their money here. Moneychangers steal you blind and more so on small amounts. There has to be a way around it. Put on your thinking caps, but remember that one end is a Government University who isn't going to do anything complex, costly or shady for the miniscule percentage they get from our donations.

I just had one. Has the project asked The Planetary Society if perhaps they could take PayPal donations and then send them on? I do see that the Planetary Society accepts PayPal, they are a 501(c)3 no IRS issue and they support SETI. Obviously they would have to recoup PayPal's fee and a bit for their book keeping but it has to be less than what MC/Visa charge.

Some comments in more-or-less random order.

PayPal fees are on a par with Visa/MasterCard for all but the typical individual account doing a little bit of eBay here or there.

Central Donations looks at PayPal, and it is something unfamiliar, and in a way, something that goes with some cheezy auction site. It is an unknown, and the donations office should be conservative.

I think some sort of suggested donation based on credit is going to turn into "you're presenting a load, pay your weight" and the "I'm donating CPU, isn't that enough for you!" crowd will be deeply offended.

There have been quite a few threads from time to time about ways to get money from overseas. As a general rule, Visa/MasterCard/Amex (including prepaid cards) have been among the least expensive, but we've seen some creative people who have been successful.

I'm far more worried about the variable star we live next to, and the possibility that it's trending down. We may need all the global warming we can get.

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Heck maybe a picture of a baby alien and a suggestion of how much a day to feed them ...

Too funny........

You too, can feed this alien.......

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

But I still am the lone one in the top 20 sporting a star.

How sad is that?

I know, there may be some 'hidden' contributors in there who for whatever unknown reason, wish to hide.....
A logic I do not understand, but must respect, I guess.

Dammit, folks.......show your stars.

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

Those of us who have higher standards than some should be ready to fly the flag.

Or I'll PM each and every one of you to ask WTF?

You have no excuses in my book.

Silly-arse laziness is probably what it is all about, I guess. Surely not a lack of a ten-spot.

Take the time.........

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster