US president sets Afghan target



The increasingly deadly conflict in Afghanistan is a "serious fight" but one essential for the future stability of the country, the US president says.
Insisting that US and allied troops have pushed back the Taliban, Barack Obama said the immediate target was to steer Afghanistan through elections.
The country is due to hold a presidential vote in August.
Mr Obama spoke to Sky News as concern grew in the UK at the rising British death toll in Afghanistan.
UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown was also forced on Saturday to justify British involvement in Afghanistan.
Mr Brown said the UK's military deployment there was aimed at preventing terrorism in the UK.
Fifteen British troops have died in the past 10 days, pushing the country's number of deaths in Afghanistan past the number killed in action in Iraq.

'Extraordinary role'
Speaking during a day-long visit to Africa, Mr Obama also told Sky News that the battle in Afghanistan was a vital element in the battle against terrorism.
He said the continued involvement of British troops in the conflict was necessary, right and was a vital contribution to UK national security.
"This is not an American mission," Mr Obama said.
"The mission in Afghanistan is one that the Europeans have as much if not more of a stake in than we do.
"The likelihood of a terrorist attack in London is at least as high, if not higher, than it is in the United States."
He praised the efforts of all troops currently fighting the Taleban in gruelling summer heat, singling out British forces for praise when asked if their role was still important.
"Great Britain has played an extraordinary role in this coalition, understanding that we can not allow either Afghanistan or Pakistan to be a safe haven for al-Qaeda, those who with impunity blow up train stations in London or buildings in New York.
"We knew that this summer was going to be tough fighting. They [the Taliban] have, I think, been pushed back but we still have a long way to go. We've got to get through elections."

'Core mission'
Since taking office in Washington in January of this year, Mr Obama has announced a troop "surge" in Afghanistan.
The US has said it is sending up to 30,000 new troops to Afghanistan this year to take on a resurgent Taleban. They will join 33,000 US and 32,000 other Nato troops already in the country.
US Marines last week launched the first major Afghan operation of Mr Obama's presidency.
About 4,000 marines - many of them redeployed from operations in Iraq - moved into the Helmand River, supported by helicopters and Afghan troops.
A new US commander, Gen Stanley McChrystal, has been tasked with the mission of outsmarting the Taliban, who continue to win support among ordinary Afghans often caught in the crossfire of the bitter fighting.
High numbers of Afghan civilian casualties have become an issue of major concern to the US. Afghan President Hamid Karzai has regularly called on the international forces to reduce the numbers of Afghans killed in its operations.
Speaking to Sky News, Mr Obama said although forces were currently engaged in heavy fighting, new strategies for building bridges with Afghan society would be considered once the country had held its presidential election.
Afghanistan needed its own army, its own police and the ability to control its own security, Mr Obama said - a strategy currently being implemented in Iraq, where security is being handed over to Iraqi forces.
"All of us are going to have to do an evaluation after the Afghan election to see what more we can do," the president said.
"It may not be on the military side, it might be on the development side providing Afghan farmers alternatives to poppy crops, making sure that we are effectively training a judiciary system and a rule of law in Afghanistan that people trust."
"We've got a core mission that we have to accomplish."

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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8763367484184611493

This link is to a short documentary film that alleges an American military presence at the sight of a warcrime.

I heard the story on "Democracy Now" over the radio today during work.

I will be writing my Member of Parliament to seek pressure for an international investigation of these claims.

There's no proof yet to make a claim one way or the other, but if the American military won't cooperate I believe Canada should withdraw from it's commitments in Afghanistan and rethink it's relationship with the U.S.

This is not the way to bolster human rights and freedom. If the U.S. was not involved, then clearly the Afghans don't get it.
If they don't get it after all this time, what the hell are we doing there?

I agree, There should be an investigation. Just to be clear, does your video have anything to do with this?

NATO has alleged that the Taliban have used civilians as human shields. As an example, NATO pointed to the victims of NATO airstrikes in Farah province in May 2009 in which the Afghan government claimed up to 150 civilians were killed. NATO stated that it had evidence that the Taliban forced civilians into buildings likely to be targeted by NATO aircraft involved in the battle. US Lieutenant Colonel Greg Julian, a spokesman for NATO's Afghanistan commander, General David D. McKiernan, said of the Taliban's tactics, "This was a deliberate plan by the Taliban to create a civilian casualty crisis. These were not human shields; these were human sacrifices. We have intelligence that points to this. Patient after patient just kept telling the doctors their story and how they were forced by the Taliban to stay in these locations."

For those of you who read these in the us and europe and civilized world ,It seems to be an outrage its just the colour of war.I in my short life have seen worse than that so to me its just anther war. I understand what happened, have you ever seen your friend shot in the head just next to you ,have you seen you fellow soldiers blasted by a bomb with there guts in pieces mixed with the earth crying for help that you cant give,have you ever seen a soldier you know hand you
a hidden letter he had written to give his wife and family,have you ever discovered the mutilated bodies of your buddies in the desert sand.Well most of you havent ,but i tell when you have seen all that and much more ,and the tears have dried off your eyes you go partly insane you can do anything to the beings who have made you get to that point.Any way like i said that wouldnt shock most of us who have been in at one point or anther were metals grind the flesh ,were live beings have there hands tied behind in a tight fashion and throwen into pits to be buried a live or were humans have been feed to crocs lorry after lorry and we have seen soldiers cry and wish , confessing they wished they were never born,THATS JUST THE COLOUR OF WAR.If you havent wittnessed there suffereing please understand that wars make them insane and that there human too,just like you are dont blame them but those who put them in harms way .PEACE.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

I agree, There should be an investigation. Just to be clear, does your video have anything to do with this?

NATO has alleged that the Taliban have used civilians as human shields. As an example, NATO pointed to the victims of NATO airstrikes in Farah province in May 2009 in which the Afghan government claimed up to 150 civilians were killed. NATO stated that it had evidence that the Taliban forced civilians into buildings likely to be targeted by NATO aircraft involved in the battle. US Lieutenant Colonel Greg Julian, a spokesman for NATO's Afghanistan commander, General David D. McKiernan, said of the Taliban's tactics, "This was a deliberate plan by the Taliban to create a civilian casualty crisis. These were not human shields; these were human sacrifices. We have intelligence that points to this. Patient after patient just kept telling the doctors their story and how they were forced by the Taliban to stay in these locations."

Afraid not. The documentary I posted a link to refers to the supposed "good guys" taking 3,000 Taliban into the desert in containers and executing them.

The question is, do we drop all pretence of holding the high moral ground against a cowardly opponent and do we as a society accept what is clearly a war crime?
Do our troops then become just as cowardly as the "terrorists"?

Surely, we hold our western values and morals to a higher degree of behaviour than those we are supposed to be fighting.

Western morals are fine and are much respected around the world, Its actually what everyone would want the world to be.The problem the war you fighting is a different war non conventional war were the enemy is not clearly or easily seen ,they have no uniforms,the blend into what you call civilians but when you turn your back the kill you. Western morals dont apply to such a war ,unless of course
you want more body bags coming home.Thats why us pulled out of a tiny country like somali after the black hawk went down,Ithink you saw like every one else what morals the somalis had.The problem is if you dont adapt you die its that simple,these people hide weapons in the ground some are innocent others are not,the are related you are a foreigner what do you expect definately most are cooperating.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Western morals are fine and are much respected around the world, Its actually what everyone would want the world to be.The problem the war you fighting is a different war non conventional war were the enemy is not clearly or easily seen ,they have no uniforms,the blend into what you call civilians but when you turn your back the kill you. Western morals dont apply to such a war ,unless of course
you want more body bags coming home.Thats why us pulled out of a tiny country like somali after the black hawk went down,Ithink you saw like every one else what morals the somalis had.The problem is if you dont adapt you die its that simple,these people hide weapons in the ground some are innocent others are not,the are related you are a foreigner what do you expect definately most are cooperating.

It would seem that you haven't watched the film.
8,000 combatants surrendered and suddenly 3,000 of them are dead in the desert.
This was not during the heat of battle. This was a mass execution.

The film alleges they were loaded into shipping containers.
When they started crying out for air, holes were shot in the sides of the containers causing the deaths and injuries of those against the containers walls.

The film then claims that the wounded, sick and unconcious were placed in the containers with the dead and were taken into the desert and executed.

I don't give a damn about the actions of other armies, we can't control what they do, but the armies of western democracies are under our control and will conduct themselves in a manner in keeping with our values.

This means that mass murder, genocide, summary executions, rape, looting and other forms of warcrimes are not tolerated.

Everyone who claims the high moral ground is the position we in the west now occupy should be contacting their elected representatives and demanding an international inquiry into the allegations made by the filmaker.

I have already done so.

Let's get to the truth of the matter.
Was this alleged crime the actions of a small number of Afghan soldiers or were there American troops present?

We need to know either way.

It seems you dont know what war is ,its all about shooting ,capturing and degrading the opponents capability how these is done depends on the circumstances
the infantry finds its self in.If you want a civilized war it would be better for you to write to your representatives to pull your troops out.But then again they will bring there uncivilized war to your soil.If the troops made those combatants suffer that way ,then they all felt that they should end up that way .These are enemy combatants the have blood of your soldiers on there hands,they have killed many and brought grieve to there families ,the believe strongly in what there doing,the are not innocent as you know.Its a pitty that the whole issue of war has to take place in the first place because its not a scrabble game,You go to war to fight and win and your goverment made the decision to do so,whether they were right is anther issue but they sent your troops knowing very well there going to kill so how they do there killing on your behalf and behalf of washington is what your film is about ,but then again you have the luxury to criticize them in you peacefull town because there guarding the walls and doing so with there lives.If you want US to fight civilized wars then perhaps you should wait for a war with canada,france etc.Anyway i respect what you say and believe ,but the fact is it seems you have never been in a war ,so dont disrespect or punish those who are sacrificing there lives on your behalf for thats the greatest gift one can give you.I am actually wondering now how civilized you would be if you had brothers brought to you killed by those combatants or if you were in a blast that maimed you ,would you still think in the same way?.Did you want the combatants to be captured after battle and given
a hot bath,chicken wings and ice cream what the soldiers did was send a message
,which is a war strategy that if you come to fight, and have sanely made the decision to attack and you are captured then expect the worst! other wise in short dont think you will kill us and get away that easily.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

no, the issue is solely what the f they are doing there in first place, iraq did not had womd, and it is not afghanistan, and wtc thing was made by saudi-arabs, but nobody declared war to saudi- arabs.

It seems you dont know what war is ,its all about shooting ,capturing and degrading the opponents capability how these is done depends on the circumstances
the infantry finds its self in.If you want a civilized war it would be better for you to write to your representatives to pull your troops out.But then again they will bring there uncivilized war to your soil.If the troops made those combatants suffer that way ,then they all felt that they should end up that way .These are enemy combatants the have blood of your soldiers on there hands,they have killed many and brought grieve to there families ,the believe strongly in what there doing,the are not innocent as you know.Its a pitty that the whole issue of war has to take place in the first place because its not a scrabble game,You go to war to fight and win and your goverment made the decision to do so,whether they were right is anther issue but they sent your troops knowing very well there going to kill so how they do there killing on your behalf and behalf of washington is what your film is about ,but then again you have the luxury to criticize them in you peacefull town because there guarding the walls and doing so with there lives.If you want US to fight civilized wars then perhaps you should wait for a war with canada,france etc.Anyway i respect what you say and believe ,but the fact is it seems you have never been in a war ,so dont disrespect or punish those who are sacrificing there lives on your behalf for thats the greatest gift one can give you.I am actually wondering now how civilized you would be if you had brothers brought to you killed by those combatants or if you were in a blast that maimed you ,would you still think in the same way?.Did you want the combatants to be captured after battle and given
a hot bath,chicken wings and ice cream what the soldiers did was send a message
,which is a war strategy that if you come to fight, and have sanely made the decision to attack and you are captured then expect the worst! other wise in short dont think you will kill us and get away that easily.

Are you familiar with some little court cases that took place about 60 years ago?
They are called the Nuremburg trials.
I think some of your argument was part of the defense strategies of some of the accused...they were still hung for crimes against humanity.

I find it repugnant that anyone could even attempt to justify actions such as the ones described in the film.

The Geneva Convention describes wartime acts that are unacceptable, this is one of them.

To take the position that I wish to give these Taliban dudes an ice cream cone and a hot bath upon their capture is absurd to the extreme.
When captured American and Canadian troops start showing up in mass graves in retaliation to this atrocity, you can spout off some more about your position that anything goes in war, because the message being sent is we will not treat our prisoners in accordance with international laws.

Captured american and canadian soldiers will show up in mass graves whether you want it or not ,if the taliban get hold of large number of your soldiers they will be killed in a much worse way than whats in that film.Lets break down the issue 1)The taliban believe that killing a christian is not a sin and they will actually be rewarded in heaven 2)They have shown no mercy to anyone captured of no value to them and if the capture you the actually slaughter you which is far worse than being shot 3)Have you asked your self what provoked civilized people i.e the soldiers to act in such a way,why is it that they did a thing like that ,maybe there certain things you are not aware of.If you sincerly believe that the Taliban who were killed deserve the hanging of your own soldiers then so be it but one thing you must remember may be there already your soldiers in mass graves but you are not aware yet and remember the saying What looks like a duck, quarks like a duck should actually be a duck.
Dont stand up for those guys please,look at the harm they are causing around the world ,All they want is to circumcize everyone and rule the world ,get the message.Are you aware of the term KILAFA in the Quran thats what there after you can research on that term.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

All they want is to circumcize everyone and rule the world ,get the message.

What part of my message gave you the impression that I'm standing up for these guys????
I'm stating the fact that an allegation of warcrimes has been made against Afghan and American troops and it has to be investigated.

As to your last sentence, how do I respond to such insight? This is like talking to Dick Cheney.
Plenty of jingoism and that old "It's us or them" stuff, but no thought about the long term ramifications of such actions.

1)The taliban believe that killing a christian is not a sin and they will actually be rewarded in heaven 2)They have shown no mercy to anyone captured of no value to them and if the capture you the actually slaughter you which is far worse than being shot 3)Have you asked your self what provoked civilized people i.e the soldiers to act in such a way,why is it that they did a thing like that ,maybe there certain things you are not aware of.

I had to go back and read this again and I'm still sitting here in disbelief at what you've written.
You seem to have broken this conflict down to the level of another crusade. The troops occupying Afghanistan are not a christian army. They are just troops under the direction of the governments they serve.
To use the argument that the Taliban show no mercy is not justification for torture and mass murder on the part of western troops. The original intent of sending western armies into Afghanistan was to fight terrorism (whatever the hell that means) and bring democracy and freedom to the middle east. How can terrorism be fought by practicing even more terrorism?

Fine let them investigate ,if you feel offended then i am sorry but its better to bring them home and not try to fight a war that cant be fought in a civilized manner.If you would even wish to hang the whole army thats also fine by me because then may be uganda will become a supper power.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Do you really think that a country maintains it's status as a super power by shooting anarmed people suffocating inside locked shipping containers?

Those are actions which cause the loss of influence worldwide.
I'm pretty sure I don't want a nation that allows acts like that to go unpunished to remain the beacon we all look up to.
No, that's incorrect...I'm not pretty sure, I'm damned certain I don't.

The Russians fought in Afganistan they commited atrocities, they fought the same people in chechney and they same thing happened ,Now the us and canada are in the same boat why are there these similarities you think? The reason is a determined and cruel enemy who cant be persuaded otherwise .So may you please ask your govt to remove your troops because you will tell them be kind dont kill but on the other hand these guys are killing them like files,I saw live video once i think on you tube i am not sure were some kind of phosophorous explosive was thrown at a group of American soldiers and it actually burnt one on the face and his friend removed a knife from his pocket and started cut out the chunk out of these guys face because i think that stuff burns deeper and cant be stopped unless you cut it of quickly.Well atrocities will always be commited in wars whether you like it or not Thats why there is even a saying that soldiers use [what happens in the bush stays in the bush].

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

Kasule,
May I first state that I wish for a world where warfare is considered an abomination and nation states seek diplomatic and logical means to settle disputes.
The reality of the situation is that this ain't going to happen.

If the elites are going to send the underclasses into direct war with the underclasses of other nations (note that the wealthy never seem forced into frontline fighting unless they see it as a means toward some political advancement) the least we can hope for is some basic rules of engagemnet.

When an enemy has laid down their arms and placed themselves at your mercy, it comes with the international understanding that they are to be treated humanely.
After all, they did stop fighting which reduced the casualty rates within the victorious army in that battle.
How many soldiers are going to surrender if the outcome is certain death anyway? They may as well fight to the last man because by fighting back there's always a chance of winning or escaping capture.

When it becomes well known that prisoners are going to be executed after capture, the war becomes one of attrition. A war of attrition on the other side of the world cannot be won. The entire population of the middle east already lives there and if the Americans start to swap casualties on a one for one basis they are going to run out of soldiers very quickly.

Do you believe the US will finally win that war? the answer is no and the reason is it would take such a long time to change the minds of the Afgans, that it would require the us to stay there for one whole or even two generations to completely change they way those guys think, which is possible off course but the only problem is the price US will have to pay in blood fighting each and everyday sooner or later the number of deaths will go up. The Russians lost 10,000 in Afgan
and decided to pull out after installing a govt, whose leader was later hanged and these gave those guys self confidence that they can defeat supper powers. If the us is prepared to dig in for a long haul and i mean a very long time in those very uncomfortable desert like enviroment then well and good , but if not then they should actually dismantle the Taliban structure as swiftly and ruthlessly as they can and get out with minimal losses. Its true that if someone has surrendered , he should be treated by the Geneva convention, But not if you first commit atrocities on US soldiers or Afgan civilians who support US as Allies then run and your caught. In that case you are quickly tried by a kangaroo military tribunal or court were you committed those crimes and executed and that i believe is the way to go about when dealing with viruses like the taliban . What do you do with a virus that you get and cant disinfect or quarantine you delete it . If the US soldiers went to a village and shoot innocent children and women and old men , that would be a crime which should be investigated , but for gods sake an enemy combatant, a mature bearded Taliban should be roasted in my view for all the sins he has committed, and to avoid later problems like guantanamo . These are people who started terrorizing the whole world making every ones life impossible , they destabilized pakistan, somalia, sudan, iraq there regrouping in Iran , there in checney and indonesia and you want us to keep some more ,no way! There comes a time when we have to make painfull desicions, not because we choose to , but because they choose to and so we shall stand by every US soldier and his family in the hardest off times and say, Thanks alot brother for fighting and spilling your blood on my behalf and we shall not make you suffer more by investigating or hanging you.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

This is a piece of what your soldiers are going through in AFGAN, alone and far from there families defending you and the rest of us . With danger behind every rock, and under ground a very difficult enviroment as you see and you are still petitioning for justice ,what justice do you want in a war like this i wonder.I will spare you the terrible images for the sake of those who have loved ones out there.

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We choose to go to the moon and to do other things, we choose to go to the moon not because its easy but because its hard. kennedy

What do all the squawkers want?
Sounds like they are looking to create another My Lai!