I don't pretend to be an expert on how the system runs, and never claimed to. I only stated as I said before what I knew to be true. That people that qualify on their incomes don't pay the premium. I never said it wasn't paid by someone else. I only stated their having to pay was based on income. I myself would rather get back to what could be the new system than to learn or take a course on the current, so unless you would like to talk about the pros and cons of the HR 676 I don't really see what the need to continue on this is.

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I only stated as I said before what I knew to be true.

You've opined on many things that were not in fact, true. I've had enough of this quest to, somehow, make Byron right on a technicality.

That people that qualify on their incomes don't pay the premium. I never said it wasn't paid by someone else.

You provided a link and then stated that it was a medicare program! The link stated it was a STATE PROGRAM.

As mentioned before;
http://www.malignantpoodle.com/byronmedicare.jpg

For very good reasons.

I only stated as I said before what I knew to be true. You've opined on many things that were not in fact, true. I've had enough of this quest to, somehow, make Byron right on a technicality.

That people that qualify on their incomes don't pay the premium. I never said it wasn't paid by someone else.
You provided a link and then stated that it was a medicare program! The link stated it was a STATE PROGRAM.

Actually i think my comment

is a Medicare program and does not appear exclusive to California.

would be a better comment to use, but sue me, I still think they're Medicare progs

As mentioned before; http://www.malignantpoodle.com/byronmedicare.jpg

For very good reasons.

Interesting.

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Please enlighten this ignorant one as to WHY - Obama is off to MEXICO to discuss American Healthcare?
Do we now need the approval of the Mexican Government to implement health care since we also have to include illegal Mexican Citizens in the plan?

The papers here say the Three Amigos are meeting to discuss NAFTA and future trade agreements. That would explain why all 3 North American countries are involved.

By the way Canadian health care generally excludes illegal residents. We are in the process of tightening up ID requirements here in Ontario, because of the large number of people slipping over here from Michigan and New York for free health care.

LOL! Oh well. All's fair. Come on down and we'll sell you cheap cigarettes.

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Join the PACK!

Byron please go away. There is more at stake here than your ego. We're interested in healthcare, not how you can somehow be right with an eclectic and unique view.

I am a medicare recipient and I don't want Byron anywhere near a platform advocating healtcare for all. He doesn't understand it, he doesn't know the difference between federal and state benefits, he didn't even know that medi-cal is a state program. Please, for the love of god, spare those of us in need your need to be right, just this once.

http://www.malignantpoodle.com/byronmedicare.jpg

Please do not tell other users to "go away". Everyone has a right to be here, regardless of their personal views.

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I love this guy :) presents a good case.

Weiner Pushes for Single-Payer Plan

Waxman to Weiner: Pelosi Will Allow Single-Payer Full House Vote!

Weiner Challenges the Republicans to Put-Up or Shut-Up on Healthcare

Weiner Blasts the Critics of Health Reform

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deleted

Name 1 thing ANY government does well?? besides taking your money!!

Police, firefighters, national parks, NASA, water and sewer, garbage collection, defence, health and safety, health regulations...Developement of telecommunications, television, radio, computers ...highways, border inspection,
there's more but you get the idea.

I agree, governments are responsible for police, fire, public transportation and protection from other nation states or groups. Governments should not be in the business of providing services or developing technology such as "telecommunications, television, radio, (and) computers". Private industry does a much better job. The point is government should do what it does best and private industry should do what it does best.

Oh yes, the Private Sector..... in this country, it flourished under that evil woman, Thatcher - everyone in the country ended up paying more, for everything! If that is the best the private sector can do, then I will happily endorse mass nationalisation, with no qualms! In the UK, we've had the benefit of seeing what the private sector does, with previously 'nationalised' companies, thanks to the Conservative Government of the time. In the US, would you allow Russian companies to control electricity supply? Oil, gas, electricity, water and health-care (probably transport and telecommunications, too) should be state controlled and administered. How can you possibly allow, companies, possibly foreign, to profit from, essential, basic requirements? As to health-care, when a private hospital makes a hash of things, it is the NHS which often picks up the bill! In my books, if someone is rich enough, or stupid enough, to pay for 'private treatment' and it goes wrong, they should seek legal redress, not rely on the NHS to sort things out! After all, they could afford it....

Completely agree with you.

Though I could never see the USA doing anything like that, it's too much of a left-wing concept, anyone suggests such a thing and they are blasted for being a communist or socialist.

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www.artpruple.co.uk

Somehow, Socialist equates to Communist in the US. The blatant lies about the NHS spouted by a number of US Politicians and people with vested interests in continuing to rake-in massive profits (therefore, bonuses), made me furious. I still am! If I was ever invited to go on a hunting trip with a crazy woman in Alaska, I'd feel happier with an SLR (aka the F.N. 300 self-loading rifle) over my shoulder, as would the wildlife!!! As for the Conservative MEPs (thats, Members of the European Parliament) who have gone shooting their well-paid mouths off, I'd have to ask, why they were not doing the jobs they're supposed to be doing? The jobs they were elected to do. One in particular, seems to have almost thrown himself into any US TV station as fast as he can find them; and for quite some time, too. Quite clearly, he has too much time on his hands, but once he is back in this country, he will have lots of explaining to do, to many people - there again, he'd probably go back to Brussels with indecent haste and by-pass all that grief!

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Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!

A friend of mine informed me of some vids of programs some of which I'd seen on TV, that are online regarding HR 676, HR 3200 as well as the Pharmaceutical companies and Insurance companies, the roles they play in gov, that I thought was possible some on here might not have seen. Some are fairly long but I found them very interesting so I thought I'd post them here in case anyone was interested.
Fault Lines - Healthcare reform - 6 August 09 - Part 2
Fault Lines - Healthcare special - 6 Aug 09 - Interview 3
BILL MOYERS JOURNAL | Wendell Potter | PBS
What is Single Payer

Edit: I've also been informed that there were several others that my friend was going to show me but they've been taken off line for some reason, so they suggest anyone that is interested in seeing them should do so soon, since they can't say how long these will be available.

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Everyone in hear is so correct in many ways and dead wrong. Health care cost money, BIG MONEY. doctors spend hundred of thousand of dollars on school and years of there lives. the chemical companies spend BILLIONS make that invest Billion of dallors.
then we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping a single really old guy alive on a machine for months because he did not sighn a peice of paper or his family wont let go. that dont happen in europe!! or CANADA.
it cost a fortune hear because we have it really GOOD and we are spoiled rotten.

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then we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping a single really old guy alive on a machine for months because he did not sighn a peice of paper or his family wont let go. that dont happen in europe!! or CANADA.
it cost a fortune hear because we have it really GOOD and we are spoiled rotten.

Exactly that happens every day in Canada. And it can happen for anybody, not just the lucky few at the top of the food chain.

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yes it happens every day so long as it does not cost more than 45,000 a year in england or 65,000 in canada if it goes over that they wont pay!! yes sir your life in canada is worth 65 grand a year. congrats!!

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yes it happens every day so long as it does not cost more than 45,000 a year in england or 65,000 in canada if it goes over that they wont pay!! yes sir your life in canada is worth 65 grand a year. congrats!!

not bad. Insurance companies usually value you at a 100 year lifetime. so that equals a lifetime value of $6.5 million American. thats about 6X the amount you'd get out of a US insurance company which usually caps its benefits at $1 million for a lifetime

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

an interesting way of looking at it. why not just hand us all 6.5 million and let us sighn off on health care. save the federal government a fortune in the long run. oohh yeah i forgot it is not really about making anyone happy it is about CONTROL!!

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I like that idea. Just give me a minute to open some kind of medical savings account.

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Pluto will always be a planet to me.

Seti Ambassador
Not to late to order an Anni Shirt

You've missed the bus. Their is no unlimited insurance. there has to be a limit set otherwise one could run up bills that would sustain one life yet bankrupt the system so that others can't even get routine care. I know it sux not being or feeling like we are the most important person in the world or country. But being fair to all is better than giving everything to a few and watching the rest fester in disease. BTW a cattle rancher will tell you about a herd immunity. you don't have to immunize all the cattle to keep all of them healthy but you have to get about 95% to keep the herd from getting sick. same with humans. IF we allow 1/6 of the US population to fall through the cracks we only injure the rest of us. SO what is good for the elite better be good for the average and undercared for if we are going to have any kind of healthcare in this country that doesnt force the uninsured to the ER for every ache and pain.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

I just listened to Obama's speech on health care. All I will say is: mandating that people and business buy health insurance is the same as a new TAX. Only it is more insidious. It is the government forcing people to buy something whether they can afford it or not. But, it doesn't go to government coffers, but rather it goes to private companies. So now, the government is directly forcing people who can lest afford it to fork over more of their money. This health care bill is just more taxation from a government totally out of control. It must be stopped. They should spend more time stopping the outsourcing of all the good jobs. Soon, no one will be able to afford this new health tax because they do not have enough income. JOBS are the issue, not health care. My rant is over.

I give up on Americans and the hope for universal single payer healthcare in America.
If you guys can't get your shite together enough for something this important then you are a lost cause.
You may as well just bend over and offer up your rumps to the corporations right now.
What a sad sack bunch you've become since the revolution.

So don't bitch at me for saying this, instead just shut up and take what your masters are giving.

OH CANADA

PS: Those of you living near the border, please stop coming across for free medical treatments and cheaper prescription drugs. I think it's time WE built a damned wall on the border.