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Message 903175 - Posted: 3 Jun 2009, 8:49:20 UTC - in response to Message 903173.  

Sure, but what you get is 6.6.29.
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Message 903199 - Posted: 3 Jun 2009, 11:15:41 UTC - in response to Message 903175.  

Agreed - but is it really 6.6.29 or 6.6.31 and they forgot to update the version number when they released the app so it says it is 6.6.29 - (I saw this happen with an earlier version - forget which one now)? The installer I used said it was 6.6.31.

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Message 903206 - Posted: 3 Jun 2009, 11:43:52 UTC - in response to Message 903199.  

Agreed - but is it really 6.6.29 or 6.6.31 and they forgot to update the version number when they released the app so it says it is 6.6.29 - (I saw this happen with an earlier version - forget which one now)? The installer I used said it was 6.6.31.

John.

The package name contains 6.6.31 but it runs as 6.6.29. I would welcome an explanation by the developers. Richard Haselgrove has signaled them this inconsistency.
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Message 903209 - Posted: 3 Jun 2009, 11:56:24 UTC

Well its obsolete already guys. 6.6.33 is now out. I'd better go and start a new message thread :-)


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Message 903214 - Posted: 3 Jun 2009, 12:08:53 UTC - in response to Message 903209.  

Well its obsolete already guys. 6.6.33 is now out. I'd better go and start a new message thread :-)



I wonder what this version will call itself ...............
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Message 903217 - Posted: 3 Jun 2009, 12:23:05 UTC

I am not interested in development versions. I have already some Beta versions of CPDN and QMC/ORCA applications to care for. 5.10.45 was a stable version, like my SuSE Linux 10.3. I have already downloaded 11.0 and 11.1 but I am waiting for 11.2, due in November. When I worked in the printing trade they said that one had to wait for a book's third printing. The second had typos corrected and the third also the author's revision. For software it's the same thing.
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Message 903321 - Posted: 3 Jun 2009, 20:33:35 UTC - in response to Message 903164.  

Is anyone running 6.6.31 on Vista 64?

I am not running it in service mode to avoid problems with CUDA not working.

When I shut down BOINC manager and choose to stop tasks also, BOINC manager quits but all tasks are left running. BOINCtray and BOINC also in memory.

If I try and kill the tasks off manually I get computation errors so don't really want to do that. When I reboot it starts automatically so I can remove it from the startup group to work around this.

Not 100% sure if this happened just with 6.6.31 - may have happened with .28 and I didn't notice.

Will try regression to earlier versions night to see if they are OK in case something funny up with this PC.



With the earlier 6.6.x versions this was a problem, so I have got into the habit of going to Advanced > Shut down connected client > OK > Cancel before closing Boinc Manager (this is on Vista 64). Not had a problem that way.

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Message 903515 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 7:28:38 UTC - in response to Message 903321.  

Is anyone running 6.6.31 on Vista 64?

I am not running it in service mode to avoid problems with CUDA not working.

When I shut down BOINC manager and choose to stop tasks also, BOINC manager quits but all tasks are left running. BOINCtray and BOINC also in memory.

If I try and kill the tasks off manually I get computation errors so don't really want to do that. When I reboot it starts automatically so I can remove it from the startup group to work around this.

Not 100% sure if this happened just with 6.6.31 - may have happened with .28 and I didn't notice.

Will try regression to earlier versions night to see if they are OK in case something funny up with this PC.



With the earlier 6.6.x versions this was a problem, so I have got into the habit of going to Advanced > Shut down connected client > OK > Cancel before closing Boinc Manager (this is on Vista 64). Not had a problem that way.

F.



Thanks Fred - that is a neat work around to the problem. I only have the one Vista machine which is probably why I hadn't previously noticed it. (XP32/XP64 seem completely OK)

I did a few tests last night and found the behaviour has changed in 6.6.31 which is probably why it is more noticeable. I tried a few versions from 6.6.17 to 6.6.28 and they all close the apps OK every time until you do an exit once with the 'Stop running science apps ....' box unticked. After you have done that, when you restart BOINC manager and subsequently have the box ticked it leaves the apps and boinc.exe in memory. If you suspend the project and exit, all the tasks close but boinc.exe stays in memory and it seems to be stuck there. If in this state you then kill off boinc.exe, behaviour returns to normal until you do an exit with it unticked again.

However, in 6.6.31, exiting BOINC manager with the box ticked always leaves everything in memory no matter what you do. Perhaps this behaviour will revert in .32/.33?


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Message 903547 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 11:00:33 UTC - in response to Message 903515.  

However, in 6.6.31, exiting BOINC manager with the box ticked always leaves everything in memory no matter what you do. Perhaps this behaviour will revert in .32/.33?


John.


Nope still does the same in 6.6.33. Seems to creep in regularly with development versions, they fix it and then it comes back again.
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Message 903568 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 12:15:59 UTC - in response to Message 903547.  


Nope still does the same in 6.6.33. Seems to creep in regularly with development versions, they fix it and then it comes back again.


Ah well one day .........

Reading this I thought I'd have a look at BOINC trac and oddly enough one of the first things I came across was a report by you about this 5 months ago!

It never really came up in the past because shutting down BOINC manager wasn't a regular occurence - it is only since I have been doing CUDA tasks and started rebranding VLAR tasks to CPU.

I read with interest your blog also. It seems we all have pretty much the same sets of problems - overheating (even worse in your location!), PSU inadequacies and how to see all your screens.

I recently inherited an 8 way Belkin switcher and thought my problems were over. Only trouble is I've got some Asus motherboards which don't have PS/2 mouse connections (why did they do that - must have saved them virtually no production costs) and the PS/2_USB converters I have randomly lock up/go crazy with the switch box. I've now reverted to a good 4 way switcher and use Remote Desktop into the machines which won't fit.

I lost a newish 750W PSU recently which I was testing in one machine and forgot to connect up the Graphics PCIe power and I think this overloaded the other circuits - fortunately still under warranty.

Just arrived in the post today - a whole bunch of new high air flow case fans and CPU blowers to try to sort out some of the problems. That should be keep me busy over the weekend.

Congratulations on your 8 million credits!

John.

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Message 903571 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 12:31:02 UTC

Just finished upgrading all my cuda rigs to 6.6.31 & find that cuda has stopped running.

When one upgrades to a newer version, does the opp app's need re-installing (I'm using Lunatics Unified Installer)?
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Message 903580 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 13:13:15 UTC - in response to Message 903571.  

Just finished upgrading all my cuda rigs to 6.6.31 & find that cuda has stopped running.

When one upgrades to a newer version, does the opp app's need re-installing (I'm using Lunatics Unified Installer)?


Normally, no, the upgrade should left that things untouched.
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Message 903584 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 13:33:09 UTC

Wow, two crashed and trashed computers for me this morning. Unfortunately, that's my whole SETI Farm! (Currently at 75,000 RAC.)

Recently switched to BOINC 6.6.31. This morning my QX9770 has 36 CUDA tasks designated "Waiting to run", since they have been preempted by tasks with later deadlines. Huh?

What about my new dual XEON W5580 box? This is the second time this week the hard drive has been wiped out since the BOINC upgrades. This problem also appears to be related to the task pre-empting situation.

I can't give any helpful post mortem info.

Sigh.

Both systems have:
Win XP64
BOINC 6.6.31
V11 noperflog
Do NOT keep suspended tasks in memory
Both systems were running AP on the CPU and MB on CUDA.

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Message 903598 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 14:25:23 UTC - in response to Message 903584.  

Wow, two crashed and trashed computers for me this morning. Unfortunately, that's my whole SETI Farm! (Currently at 75,000 RAC.)

Recently switched to BOINC 6.6.31. This morning my QX9770 has 36 CUDA tasks designated "Waiting to run", since they have been preempted by tasks with later deadlines. Huh?

What about my new dual XEON W5580 box? This is the second time this week the hard drive has been wiped out since the BOINC upgrades. This problem also appears to be related to the task pre-empting situation.

I can't give any helpful post mortem info.

Sigh.

Both systems have:
Win XP64
BOINC 6.6.31
V11 noperflog
Do NOT keep suspended tasks in memory
Both systems were running AP on the CPU and MB on CUDA.

Bob


You also seem to have been unlucky and have snagged a whole bunch of VLARs which have been killed off :-

<core_client_version>6.6.31</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
- exit code -6 (0xfffffffa)
</message>
<stderr_txt>

VLAR WU (AR: 0.012800 )detected... autokill initialised
SETI@home error -6 Bad workunit header

File: ..\worker.cpp
Line: 144


</stderr_txt>
]]>


I see one -5 task which looks like the output from the pre-empt problem from this morning at 5:35 which I assume was after you've upgraded to 6.6.31? However other -5's say they are VLAR kills as well

core_client_version>6.6.31</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
- exit code -5 (0xfffffffb)
</message>
<stderr_txt>
SETI@home error -5 Can't open file
(work_unit.sah) in read_wu_state() errno=2

File: ..\worker.cpp
Line: 123


</stderr_txt>
]]>

Other errors include :-
Cuda error 'cudaMemcpy(dev_cx_DataArray, cx_DataArray, NumDataPoints * sizeof(*cx_DataArray), cudaMemcpyHostToDevice

which seems to point at a memory problem with CUDA - are your machines ever rebooted. The extra waiting tasks may still be in CUDA memory and it just ran out - famous last words - perhaps a reboot will clear the problem.

I have started to get a whole bunch of waiting to runs - I think this is because the preempting is no longer erroring them when the tasks switch - before they just errored and disappeared.

I really abused 6.6.31 when I upgraded it and coouldn't make it -5 once - all with WindowsXPSP3



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Message 903612 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 15:15:53 UTC - in response to Message 903598.  


You also seem to have been unlucky and have snagged a whole bunch of VLARs which have been killed off :-

The VLARs don't seem to be a problem. The autokill has been working OK, I think.

...
I see one -5 task which looks like the output from the pre-empt problem from this morning at 5:35 which I assume was after you've upgraded to 6.6.31? However other -5's say they are VLAR kills as well.

Yes, that was after the upgrade. Still, it does not make sense that tasks with later deadlines are doing the preempting, and the QX9770 system was only running a cache of 1.6 days. I have not kept up on the pre-empt situation as discussed in the forums here. It has been surprising how much it happens on my systems since upgrades above BOINC 6.6.21. It finally got bad enough that both systems are now detached and turned off... out of necessity - they just don't work anymore with today's configurations of software and WUs.

</stderr_txt>
]]>

Other errors include :-
Cuda error 'cudaMemcpy(dev_cx_DataArray, cx_DataArray, NumDataPoints * sizeof(*cx_DataArray), cudaMemcpyHostToDevice

which seems to point at a memory problem with CUDA - are your machines ever rebooted. The extra waiting tasks may still be in CUDA memory and it just ran out - famous last words - perhaps a reboot will clear the problem.

Last night I reset the system before going to bed. Unfortunately, the big system (6xGTX295) got so many preempts during my 6 hours of sleep, well, it died.


I have started to get a whole bunch of waiting to runs - I think this is because the preempting is no longer erroring them when the tasks switch - before they just errored and disappeared.

I really abused 6.6.31 when I upgraded it and coouldn't make it -5 once - all with WindowsXPSP3.

John.

Thanks for the input, John.

I'm guessing the nature of the 6xGTX295 exaggerates such problems, and the end result (failure) arrives sooner. That's why I tried building the system for SETI with only two GPU. The problems are more subtle, yet it was also creating 3 or 4 "waiting to run"'s per day for the past couple days.

Question: What is the decision process that makes BOINC preempt in this situation? Is this a bug, or is there some logic to it?

Bob
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Message 903620 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 15:37:06 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jun 2009, 15:38:51 UTC

Fred W posted about some -5 errors around the same time as I started bellyaching about the errors which led to the v6.6.31 fix. At the time, I suppose we all assumed that the errors all came from the same cause, but evidently not.

Fred's report,

Screen dumps are http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4800/logpic3.jpg and http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1856/logpic4.jpg

The images show just one example of the unwanted interaction: In the first the 2 CUDA WU's running are:

26fe09aa.9600,24201.14.8.62_0 and
26fe09aa.9600,24201.14.8.66_0

In the second image 66_0 has completed and 62_0 has been pre-empted (with just 14 seconds left to run) and the 2 WU's now 18 seconds into their run are

26fe09aa.9600,25837.14.8.54_0 and
26fe09aa.9600,25837.14.8.61_0

So the completion and upload of an EDF WU on one half of my GTX295 causes the WU running on the other half to be pre-empted. I then end up with a whole list of "Waiting to run" WU's which error out with: [-5]

Unfortunately, all my CUDA cards are single-core, so I can't follow this one up with personal observations. But it sure sounds as if there's another bug still waiting to be tracked down.
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Message 903622 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 15:44:07 UTC - in response to Message 903515.  

Is anyone running 6.6.31 on Vista 64?

I am not running it in service mode to avoid problems with CUDA not working.

When I shut down BOINC manager and choose to stop tasks also, BOINC manager quits but all tasks are left running. BOINCtray and BOINC also in memory.

If I try and kill the tasks off manually I get computation errors so don't really want to do that. When I reboot it starts automatically so I can remove it from the startup group to work around this.

Not 100% sure if this happened just with 6.6.31 - may have happened with .28 and I didn't notice.

Will try regression to earlier versions night to see if they are OK in case something funny up with this PC.



With the earlier 6.6.x versions this was a problem, so I have got into the habit of going to Advanced > Shut down connected client > OK > Cancel before closing Boinc Manager (this is on Vista 64). Not had a problem that way.

F.



Thanks Fred - that is a neat work around to the problem. I only have the one Vista machine which is probably why I hadn't previously noticed it. (XP32/XP64 seem completely OK)

I did a few tests last night and found the behaviour has changed in 6.6.31 which is probably why it is more noticeable. I tried a few versions from 6.6.17 to 6.6.28 and they all close the apps OK every time until you do an exit once with the 'Stop running science apps ....' box unticked. After you have done that, when you restart BOINC manager and subsequently have the box ticked it leaves the apps and boinc.exe in memory. If you suspend the project and exit, all the tasks close but boinc.exe stays in memory and it seems to be stuck there. If in this state you then kill off boinc.exe, behaviour returns to normal until you do an exit with it unticked again.

However, in 6.6.31, exiting BOINC manager with the box ticked always leaves everything in memory no matter what you do. Perhaps this behaviour will revert in .32/.33?


John.


I'm having that same problem with BOINC v6.6.31 on WinXPSP3: Exiting Boinc Mgr does NOT kill the running (otimized SaH) apps with BM Advanced> Options> Enable Manager Exit Dialog (Checked)> OK, then BM File> Exit> (Exit Confirmation dialog appears)> Stop running science applications when exiting the Manager (Checked). "Remember this decision and do not show this dialog again (Checked)" does remember to not show it again but likewise does NOT cause science apps to stop when exiting Boinc Manager. And the science apps auto-restart immediately after I manually kill them in Task Manager> Processes dialogue. I used Msconfig to NOT launch BMgr & BTray when Windows starts up.

So now with v6.6.31 I have to choose BM Advanced> Shutdown connected client> OK then click Cancel when prompted to enter a different host, then BM File> Exit > click OK on the Exit Confirmation dialog. This is a pain ........... ;<((


I don't recall if Boinc v6.6.28 had these same options/suboptions, but in v6.6.28 once the options were set to shutdown science apps on BM exit, it would ALWAYS do so. I did install v6.6.31 over v6.6.28 and OK'd it's installation defaults (admittedly I didn't look at what they were after seeing v6.6.31 installer properly saw my (default) installation directories ... so maybe if apps run as service, that would be my fault).

Please advise if my complaint about v6.6.31 should be posted on the BOINC site and/or some BM bug tracker??
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Message 903624 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 15:51:55 UTC - in response to Message 903622.  

Please advise if my complaint about v6.6.31 should be posted on the BOINC site and/or some BM bug tracker??

I've already cross-referenced this thread on the boinc_alpha mailing list, and quoted Questor's message 903515, but further (specific, detailled, analytic, diagnostic) input is always helpful - either on the mailing list or via trac.
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Message 903626 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 15:57:11 UTC - in response to Message 903624.  

Please advise if my complaint about v6.6.31 should be posted on the BOINC site and/or some BM bug tracker??

I've already cross-referenced this thread on the boinc_alpha mailing list, and quoted Questor's message 903515, but further (specific, detailled, analytic, diagnostic) input is always helpful - either on the mailing list or via trac.


Thanks for reporting Richard.
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Message 903630 - Posted: 4 Jun 2009, 16:05:21 UTC - in response to Message 903620.  

From Fred W:
...
So the completion and upload of an EDF WU on one half of my GTX295 causes the WU running on the other half to be pre-empted. I then end up with a whole list of "Waiting to run" WU's which error out with: [-5]

From Richard:
Unfortunately, all my CUDA cards are single-core, so I can't follow this one up with personal observations. But it sure sounds as if there's another bug still waiting to be tracked down.

My system with two single-core CUDA cards (two GTX285) was creating "wait to run" tasks at a rate comparable, card per card, with my 6xGTX295 system.

Fred's observation is alarming.

Since the preempting is also happening on my single-core GPU system, it goes back to my question: Why is the preempting happening in the first place? In other words, with a short cache (1.6 days), and plenty of time for all tasks to complete before deadline, why does a WU go EDF in the first place? Is the WU born and flagged that way before I get it? I thought EDF was a calculated state based on the immediate context within the local host?

Bob
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