Silly polemics...

>
> I presumed nothing, and I commend your donation. Please understand I am not
> directing my frustration at you. Frankly, if I were a developer for Seti, I
> would dread each hiccup in the system - the moment a problem arises, the
> forums become alive with the 'I'm quitting' threats, 'you all suck' comments,
> and general contempt for the project developers....
>


I think the issue here is all we're asking is to be kept informed.

We all accept there will be problems. We don't even expect detailed explainations, a simple acknowledgement that a problem exists and they're doing all they can to fix it would be GREAT.

For all I know, they might all be down the pub at the moment totally unaware there's a problem patting themselves on the back for doing such a great job on the latest hardware upgrade. On the other hand, I expect Matt and others are currently in the lab pulling their hair out trying to fix the probelm.

Come on guys, please let us know there's someone home and you're looking into this :)

Ned

I think what I find most disturbing is how this project could inadvertently help to "tank" BOINC in general. I use quotes because, in all reality, BOINC itself is a good platform. Like many things, however, public perception is only as strong as your weakest link. I received permission to implement Distributed Computing at my office as I am one of the network admins. My company is decently forward thinking, and, about a month ago they allowed me to do SETI Classic (and then SETI BOINC) on four of the more "unused" servers as a dry run. We chose SETI mainly because we in the IT department are X-Files geeks, have very little interest in Climate or LHC, and also because our first choice, Predictor, was down. Now, after seeing all the RPC errors coming from the servers, watching WU's going down the drain, seeing that Predictor isn't back up (admittedly Dell's fault), and witnessing what is perceived by my supers as the "wasted wear and tear on the servers", I am now being "asked politely" to either give up on DC in our environment or choose a different platform that [direct quote] "was better tested". We have now been running GRID.ORG for a week with less than no problem and have even assuaged the supers with a cache server in the DMZ that is the sole communication point with the UD server at GRID...thereby allowing us to close off internet access to the servers doing DC. The supers get their security, get to say they are doing cancer research (instead of "looking for ET"), and look good to THEIR supers. For myself, I have seen so many fewer problems that I am switching my personal machines as well.

I feel for the dev team, but I feel this is the result of releasing a "production level" product before it is ready. I hope SETI@Home survives BOINC, and I hope BOINC survives SETI@Home.

Cheers and well wishes,
Doug

All I know is I didn't leave my computers on 24/7 before Seti and don't see why I would if not for Seti. Sort of like turning on your shower an hour before you're ready to take your shower and leaving it on after you're done to make sure there's water coming out of the shower head!

>
> > 50GHz of computer power here solely bought and (silently) donated to
> SETI.
> > Do not presume I run a screensaver occasionally.
> > The only reason 3/4 of these machines exist is to support this project.
> >
> > If SETI didn't exist neither would they.....
> >
> >
>
> I presumed nothing, and I commend your donation. Please understand I am not
> directing my frustration at you. Frankly, if I were a developer for Seti, I
> would dread each hiccup in the system - the moment a problem arises, the
> forums become alive with the 'I'm quitting' threats, 'you all suck' comments,
> and general contempt for the project developers....
>
>
> <a>

So then I'll simply restate what I said.
Thousands of hours are being wasted,
I never threatened to quit,
The communication with the userbase "sucks"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


>

Computer cycles aren't gold, but I do run my computers 24 hours a day ONLY because of SETI and the other BOINC projects. I think they have merit so I've invested my time and hardware. I've had to reboot my "poor" laptop on the foot stool several times because it was getting too hot. It would have been off if it weren't for SETI.

Extra cycles may be cheap, but it takes some motivation to keep going. I'll do what is needed to support SETI, but it would be nice to know the effort is worth it. A bit more information from the project would be appreciated.

>
> > You are having a laugh. Thousands of hours of computer time are being
> wasted
>
> Computer time wasted? What would that computer time be used for if Seti didn't
> exist? Everyone seems to treat their CPU cycles as if they were pure gold.
> Gimme a break....
>
>

COME ON!!!! Get real, man. I leave my PC on 24/7 and would rather it do something worth while. I do not play games on my PC all that often, as a matter of fact it's been about 2 or 3 months since I have. I haven't even run my Flight Simulator in months. Simply because I would rather my PC do something for science as it is. I run 2 project besides SETI so my PC is doing some real scientific work. I'm waiting for a 3rd one to start up next year, I'm already signed up for it.

My CPU cycles are precious to me, I don't want them wasted because of refused uploads or whatever that causes my PC to waste CPU cycles on those WUs.

L8R....

---




Rick A. - BOINCing right along now.... It can only get better!

"There is no fate except that which we create for ourselves."

Live Long and Prosper....

> 50GHz of computer power here solely bought and (silently) donated to SETI.
> Do not presume I run a screensaver occasionally.
> The only reason 3/4 of these machines exist is to support this project.
>
> If SETI didn't exist neither would they.....
>
>

I presumed nothing, and I commend your donation. Please understand I am not directing my frustration at you. Frankly, if I were a developer for Seti, I would dread each hiccup in the system - the moment a problem arises, the forums become alive with the 'I'm quitting' threats, 'you all suck' comments, and general contempt for the project developers....


<a>

>
> > You are having a laugh. Thousands of hours of computer time are being
> wasted
>
> Computer time wasted? What would that computer time be used for if Seti didn't
> exist? Everyone seems to treat their CPU cycles as if they were pure gold.
> Gimme a break....
>
>
> <a>
>
50GHz of computer power here solely bought and (silently) donated to SETI.
Do not presume I run a screensaver occasionally.
The only reason 3/4 of these machines exist is to support this project.

If SETI didn't exist neither would they.....

I'll give you a clue - I've passed 170k too - every MHz bought and paid for personally - so don't talk down to me OK?

> You are having a laugh. Thousands of hours of computer time are being wasted

Computer time wasted? What would that computer time be used for if Seti didn't exist? Everyone seems to treat their CPU cycles as if they were pure gold. Gimme a break....


<a>

> > Fist my HT maschine hangs everytime it only has one WU left to crunch.
> > Ok
> >
> > now with having lots of WUs I cant upload them because of the f#*#ing
> upload
> > problem that now appeared.
> >
> > error on file upload ...bla bla bla
> >
> > I'am now detaching Seti from every maschine as I have enough of this.
> >
> > Iron out these bugs and call me next year if you will ever make it there
> >
> >
> >
> >
> I can't blame you. I won't follow you. But I can't blame anyone who leaves
> this project now when the team are making it clear they can't even spend 1
> minute to tell everyone what the hell is going on. This is not ignoring users.
> This is treating them with contempt.
>
>

I agree with both of you. Since WE are volunteers, donating our unused computer time to them to further their research, I believe that they should keep us in the loop and not in the dark. Without US there would be no SETI simply because they do not have the vast resources to do what WE are doing for them. Granted, they get new users every day, but if those of us that know the system were to refuse to donate our PC time and stayed away, the new users would get as frustrated and quit because there would be no one to tell them how it is.

L8R....

---




Rick A. - BOINCing right along now.... It can only get better!

"There is no fate except that which we create for ourselves."

Live Long and Prosper....

> Goodbye, one less complainer won't be missed......
>
>
> <a>

"ONE LESS COMPLAINER"

You are having a laugh. Thousands of hours of computer time are being wasted here and not ONE SINGLE COMMENT FROM SLL. Not a complainer, just somewhone who cares.........
>

Goodbye, one less complainer won't be missed......


<a>

> Fist my HT maschine hangs everytime it only has one WU left to crunch.
> Ok
>
> now with having lots of WUs I cant upload them because of the f#*#ing upload
> problem that now appeared.
>
> error on file upload ...bla bla bla
>
> I'am now detaching Seti from every maschine as I have enough of this.
>
> Iron out these bugs and call me next year if you will ever make it there
>
>
>
>
I can't blame you. I won't follow you. But I can't blame anyone who leaves this project now when the team are making it clear they can't even spend 1 minute to tell everyone what the hell is going on. This is not ignoring users. This is treating them with contempt.

Fist my HT maschine hangs everytime it only has one WU left to crunch.
Ok

now with having lots of WUs I cant upload them because of the f#*#ing upload problem that now appeared.

error on file upload ...bla bla bla

I'am now detaching Seti from every maschine as I have enough of this.

Iron out these bugs and call me next year if you will ever make it there