Claimed Credit Vs Granted Credit

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Message 876661 - Posted: 17 Mar 2009, 22:07:07 UTC - in response to Message 876607.  

Thus Spake Zarathustra

I couldn't agree MORE - I am one of those Pentium D Dudes (it's my best machine) and my objectiove is to provide a tool to find E.T.. My RAC and Total credits when added to the cost of a short draft at a local watering hole in Elgin Illinois STILL comes out to be 1 buck one Monday and 1.50 the rest of the week.
As for bragging rights - several of the folks I've sold refurbished machines to have joined the SETI ranks, and share my objective. Since the demise of Classic it is harder now since no one ever knowws if any WU they processed ever deserved an second look. With the shortfall in donations etc. perhaps the powers that be might look at this as a way to inspire folks to close ranks to find E.T. rather than find a bigger RAC.
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Message 876686 - Posted: 17 Mar 2009, 22:34:47 UTC - in response to Message 876604.  

If I may, allow me to invoke a couple of cliches:

Perhaps, instead of taking one sentence out of context, like you did, and you learned my views through either asking me or my posting history, you'd know that.

"First impressions do tend to last."

I will admit to taking a while to appreciate and "learn your views" from your posting history to understand where you're coming from, but when I first read one of your posts (not in this thread), my initial reaction was "how did this guy get to be moderator?" :)

First impressions go both ways too. I realize it is aggravating dealing with "unrealistic" and irrational complaints, but if the advice is taken to "ask or review posting history", lots of times these unrealistic pissed off moments are only due to a misunderstanding that once it's explained to them in a calm manner, then they may not be as irrationally pissed or antagonistic.

To sum up with another cliche, "a little diplomacy goes a long way."

What you call 'snobbery' I call realistic.

"It is more difficult to convey tone and intent in written words than in spoken words."

I can see how some of what you say and how you say it can be construed as snobbish, just as easily as I can see it as realism. I have seen many internet message boards (besides this one) get blown up over a misunderstanding over an intended humorous sarcastic comment, or a matter-of-fact terse response. Emoticons like :) go a long way in conveying tone and intent. (I know some people think they are unnecessary and silly, but I see them as a useful tool in internet messaging.)

In science we learn that things need to be tweaked or modified from time to time as new information becomes available. In religion, we learn that it is something that is not to be questioned or examined closely lest we insult those who believe.

Wow. I love this quote. Can I steal it for my tagline? :)
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Message 876701 - Posted: 17 Mar 2009, 23:18:21 UTC - in response to Message 876686.  

If I may, allow me to invoke a couple of cliches:

Perhaps, instead of taking one sentence out of context, like you did, and you learned my views through either asking me or my posting history, you'd know that.

"First impressions do tend to last."


...and I've always hated that expression, and its my opinion that those who cling to that cliche are naive - naive because everyone knows that you cannot learn a person from one glimpse of them. People are far too complex to learn them in the first impression, and first impressions are often wrong in my experience.

First impressions go both ways too. I realize it is aggravating dealing with "unrealistic" and irrational complaints, but if the advice is taken to "ask or review posting history", lots of times these unrealistic pissed off moments are only due to a misunderstanding that once it's explained to them in a calm manner, then they may not be as irrationally pissed or antagonistic.


I'll agree that these situations are usually caused by misunderstandings, but I disagree that the problem is in the advice to "ask or review". Personally, I think the problem starts with the irrational people flying off the handle, and then responses are usually returned in kind in internet message boards - so the solution to the problem is to remain calm and rational and let people explain instead of firing off all insulted like.

There's also the fact that I hate having to constantly repeat my views, but I will if asked politely, because at least then I know that my opinions will be given a chance. If they fire off all angry, I'm not going to believe that I have been given a fair chance to explain. Again, the least people can do is to simply inquire and respect someone else's view even if it doesn't reflect their own.

To sum up with another cliche, "a little diplomacy goes a long way."


...and "a little patience and understanding goes a long way". Again, if people didn't get so offended in the first place, then there wouldn't be such a need for excess diplomacy in the first place.

What you call 'snobbery' I call realistic.

"It is more difficult to convey tone and intent in written words than in spoken words."

I can see how some of what you say and how you say it can be construed as snobbish, just as easily as I can see it as realism. I have seen many internet message boards (besides this one) get blown up over a misunderstanding over an intended humorous sarcastic comment, or a matter-of-fact terse response. Emoticons like :) go a long way in conveying tone and intent. (I know some people think they are unnecessary and silly, but I see them as a useful tool in internet messaging.)


Oh sure, anything anyone says can be misconstrued on the internet when its just written words, which is yet another reason why people shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun. The beautiful thing about this world is that it is not black and white - there is always two sides to every story. I often see both sides to every story (including seeing my posts as somehow snobbish, among many other topics - I can even take any topic and argue either side very well, including being a credit hound, which shows that I can fully understand all views completely), but we all have to decide for ourselves which side we choose to believe. People can either choose to believe that I'm an arrogant snob who shouldn't be a mod (and there's a few of them out there who think so) and then there's those who acknowledge that there's much more to my story than such a summary view of me and my opinions and such characterizations - just as I'm sure that no matter how diplomatic you are, there's always going to be people who still make mis-characterizations about those who are diplomatic, because people are free to make up their own minds - even if they are wrong.

If we have to resort to word-dancing diplomacy, we are essentially telling these people that they are too weak to live in a society where people are free to express themselves as they wish without having to turn every opinion personal.

In science we learn that things need to be tweaked or modified from time to time as new information becomes available. In religion, we learn that it is something that is not to be questioned or examined closely lest we insult those who believe.

Wow. I love this quote. Can I steal it for my tagline? :)


Sure.
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Message 876732 - Posted: 17 Mar 2009, 23:58:39 UTC - in response to Message 876701.  
Last modified: 18 Mar 2009, 0:17:35 UTC

"First impressions do tend to last."


...and I've always hated that expression, and its my opinion that those who cling to that cliche are naive - naive because everyone knows that you cannot learn a person from one glimpse of them. People are far too complex to learn them in the first impression, and first impressions are often wrong in my experience.

naive or not, it is human nature (science being one example) to label, categorize and classify "based on available information." It is the non-naive ones who "tweak or modify as new information becomes available." However, it appears to me that you have also been guilty on occasion of using your first impression of a "credit hound" and crafting your responses accordingly.

I'll agree that these situations are usually caused by misunderstandings, but I disagree that the problem is in the advice to "ask or review".

Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you misinterpreted me: I was saying that "ask or review" was a solution, not the problem. So we agree here, I think.
EDIT: I was suggesting that you take your own advice when dealing with aggravating posters. :)

To sum up with another cliche, "a little diplomacy goes a long way."


...and "a little patience and understanding goes a long way". Again, if people didn't get so offended in the first place, then there wouldn't be such a need for excess diplomacy in the first place.

I can't disagree here...excess diplomacy is bad. A little diplomacy is useful. Of course, some would say that any is too much. :)

Wow. I love this quote. Can I steal it for my tagline? :)

Sure.

Thanks!
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Message 876736 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009, 0:23:53 UTC - in response to Message 876732.  
Last modified: 18 Mar 2009, 0:30:51 UTC

"First impressions do tend to last."


...and I've always hated that expression, and its my opinion that those who cling to that cliche are naive - naive because everyone knows that you cannot learn a person from one glimpse of them. People are far too complex to learn them in the first impression, and first impressions are often wrong in my experience.

naive or not, it is human nature (science being one example) to label, categorize and classify "based on available information." It is the non-naive ones who "tweak or modify as new information becomes available."


I don't buy it. The one thing that sets humans apart from the rest of the species on this planet is that we have the ability to change our own nature and destiny if we choose to. Its the non-naive ones who label and categorize only after studying and learning whatever the object is - not after first impressions.

However, it appears to me that you have also been guilty on occasion of using your first impression of a "credit hound" and crafting your responses accordingly.


You seem to miss that I usually type in generalities to avoid labeling and categorizing people on first impressions. If what I have to say in general doesn't apply to the situation, then my "crafted response" is essentially just an opinion and not really a targeted response, and those who take it that way are over-reading my intentions.

I'll agree that these situations are usually caused by misunderstandings, but I disagree that the problem is in the advice to "ask or review".

Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you misinterpreted me: I was saying that "ask or review" was a solution, not the problem. So we agree here, I think.


We agree and I misread what you were trying to say.
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Message 876740 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009, 0:40:56 UTC - in response to Message 876736.  

Shoot, you modified your post and removed the part I was going to respond to. Bugger. :)
"Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy for those who think."

"I never get into an argument that I cannot win."
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Message 876741 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009, 0:48:58 UTC - in response to Message 876740.  
Last modified: 18 Mar 2009, 0:49:32 UTC

Shoot, you modified your post and removed the part I was going to respond to. Bugger. :)


LOL I removed it figuring it really didn't add to the discussion (and after acknowledging certain things you said to myself). :)
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Message 876843 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009, 11:14:33 UTC

Damn, I did put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Ozzfan, dont take offence, but from reading your post, I did get an elitest impression that annoyed me. Maybe I overreacted, but we are all on the same side. Maybe one way to involve people more in the science would be to have a method to view their results in relation to the project overall. I have no idea what my 2 million credits have achieved for seti, what they have found etc, thats why the credit is so important to me - its the only way I can visualise my contribution, and it introduced me to the joys of overclocking as a result :-)
I can imagine the credit being important for alot of people, how else can you know what you have achieved.
Im passionate about the search for life, thats why I am spending $80 a month on power to keep all my machines crunching. The fact that I dont really understand the science behind it doesn't bother me, though I would like a better understanding of what the project has acieved so far.
Heres to faster crunching for us all and roll on 10 million :-)
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Message 876981 - Posted: 18 Mar 2009, 21:15:11 UTC - in response to Message 876843.  

Ozzfan, dont take offence, but from reading your post, I did get an elitest impression that annoyed me. Maybe I overreacted...


Don't worry about it. I'm quite easy going once you get to know me. We're moving forward now and making good progress communicating.

I can understand, from a certain viewpoint, why people would think that. All I am saying is that people should at least give me a chance first. Then we can put the misunderstanding behind us. :) [<--- See! Emoticon!]

Maybe one way to involve people more in the science would be to have a method to view their results in relation to the project overall.


I know there was talk about a SkyMap that is supposed to allow you to see the best candidate signals, but I don't think it works on a "per account" basis.

I have no idea what my 2 million credits have achieved for seti, what they have found etc, thats why the credit is so important to me - its the only way I can visualise my contribution, and it introduced me to the joys of overclocking as a result :-)


To be perfectly honest, my expertise is in computer hardware and networking. I have limited knowledge of the actual science, but I believe strongly in the goal (duh! LOL)

I've said in other threads and I'll say it here: its fun collecting credits and its fun trying to get your RAC up, but let's not lose focus of the goal whenever there's problems (either with the credit system or with the servers themselves - as some people get so irate over server outages or missed credit).

I can imagine the credit being important for alot of people, how else can you know what you have achieved.


You asked "how else", so I'll give you an answer: by the comfort of knowing that you're returning valid science as long as you validate. That answer might not be as fun, but ultimately, that (should be) is more important than credits that have no real world value.

Im passionate about the search for life, thats why I am spending $80 a month on power to keep all my machines crunching. The fact that I dont really understand the science behind it doesn't bother me, though I would like a better understanding of what the project has acieved so far.
Heres to faster crunching for us all and roll on 10 million :-)


...and that $80 is a very real contribution, and that's something to care about!
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Message boards : Number crunching : Claimed Credit Vs Granted Credit


 
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