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Profile KWSN imcrazynow
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Message 861345 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 0:11:51 UTC - in response to Message 861310.  

So, your official stance is , it's ok for this client to properly report only 10% of it's work as long as it validates?

Yes.

So, if your employer decided to pay you only 10% of your paycheck you're ok with that as long as the check cashes?
You want a job?
Even if they paid you 90% of what was due to you for your work I bet you'ld be in there asking why.
Its not what we want or what is best for us. What matters is whats best for the project.

This project wouldn't be squat if it were not for the volunteers processing the work and the volunteers sending in the donations to keep it going.
<----------------- Like alot of others I am one.
Since when is this a popularity contest

Who said anything about a popularity contest? Oh yea, you did!
Popularity has nothing to do with it. Doing what's right does. Alot of people are being denied what is rightfully earned because of people who set and forget their machines (intentionally or not). Since it's the science and not the credits that matter to you how about a reset to zero? Or are you proud to be able to show that you've contributed alot to the project? I applaude you for that. Why is it so wrong for the project to require at least a version that at least reports everything correctly?
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Josef W. Segur
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Message 861428 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 2:52:33 UTC - in response to Message 861224.  

Pretty sure I will get a 0 on this AP WU. Three others have a no reply and his computer has only retured one or two of the 478 tasks it downloaded.

Worry not (yet). It can go out up to 10 times before it is ditched.

F.

I thought it was 5 :) I don't like getting a 0 credit, but I kind of half expect it when an AP work unit slips though to one of my computers.

I'm doing Astropulse almost exclusively. If AP was frequently "0" credit, my RAC would be under 100.

It's five errors, or ten total attempts, whichever comes first, and unless I'm missing something, none of the other machines has returned the work unit, in any form.

I did assume that a "No Reply" does not equate to an "Error" - so 10 attempts. No?

F.

I just checked the Transitioner code, you're correct that "No reply" is not considered an error (only "Client error" and "Validate error" are). Note that the "max # of error/total/success tasks 5, 10, 10" is stating the allowed amounts, it actually takes 6 errors or 11 without finding a canonical result to kill a WU.
                                                                 Joe
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John McLeod VII
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Message 861461 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 4:15:51 UTC - in response to Message 861345.  

So, your official stance is , it's ok for this client to properly report only 10% of it's work as long as it validates?

Yes.

So, if your employer decided to pay you only 10% of your paycheck you're ok with that as long as the check cashes?
You want a job?
Even if they paid you 90% of what was due to you for your work I bet you'ld be in there asking why.

No, it would not be OK for an employer to short. A paycheck can buy real things. The credit score can't. This is how they differ.

The problem with old clients underreporting credit is fair in the sense that everyone has the same chance of getting paired with one of these, with the exception of the systems with the old BOINC version - these always get hit by a low credit score.

As explained before. Every time that the minimum version of BOINC is raised by a project, some of the users simply drop out, never to return.

Also the ratio of the old clients to the total population of clients is slowly dropping all on its own. Some of the old clients will die, and new clients are being added all of the time. Most of the new clients are the latest (and greatest?).


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OzzFan Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 861487 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 5:09:04 UTC - in response to Message 861345.  
Last modified: 3 Feb 2009, 5:28:15 UTC

So, your official stance is , it's ok for this client to properly report only 10% of it's work as long as it validates?

Yes.

So, if your employer decided to pay you only 10% of your paycheck you're ok with that as long as the check cashes?


...and that's why you're taking this too personal. Credits cannot purchase any physical thing. If SETI stopped handing out credits right now, I would still be able to pay my mortgage and my utilities.

Credits are not real, no matter how much importance you want to put on them.

You want a job?


Thanks, but I already have one.

Even if they paid you 90% of what was due to you for your work I bet you'ld be in there asking why.


You're right. Because that's something that actually affects my livelihood. Credits do not do that for anyone, including you.

This project wouldn't be squat if it were not for the volunteers processing the work and the volunteers sending in the donations to keep it going.
<----------------- Like alot of others I am one.


....and I'm willing to bet that most volunteers don't do it for the credit.

...regardless, just because you are a volunteer, doesn't mean that you are allowed to make demands or dictates. Try that at your local homeless shelter, I dare you. You'll be asked to leave and never come back. People donate their time because they want to, not because they expect something valueless back (other than the joy of helping out).

I guarantee you that if everyone that was only in it for the credits left the project, there would still be enough people here, and new ones signing up every day that are interested in the project's goals to pick up where those who chose to leave left off.

Oh, and I've donated too. So who does SETI listen to? The one who donates the most?

Who said anything about a popularity contest? Oh yea, you did!


You're the one making statements like:

I bet that anybody running an AP task that happened to get paired with a wingman claiming zero is really gonna agree with you.


In which you clearly state that anybody who has run AP and gets paired with one is not going to agree with me, which seems to imply that things are done out of popularity, as in "if no one agrees with you [popularity], then you must be in the wrong".

So no, I did not bring up popularity. Try to remember what you wrote before denying what you said.

Popularity has nothing to do with it. Doing what's right does. Alot of people are being denied what is rightfully earned because of people who set and forget their machines (intentionally or not).


You make it sound like people are being denied food or water. Try to keep things in perspective. We are talking about Cobblestones! We are talking about something that amounts to video game scores.

Is SETI denying anyone the right to live? Is SETI planning a dictatorship with credits as the only form of pay?

No matter what argument you make, credits are not what's important in real life. Try to keep this in mind.

Since it's the science and not the credits that matter to you how about a reset to zero?


I've already openly invited Dr. Korpela to take all my credits away. Are you willing to do the same? Put your credits where your mouth is.

Or are you proud to be able to show that you've contributed alot to the project?


Are you actually trying to goad me? My pride comes from the confidence in knowing that I'm helping the project with my spare cycles. I do not need credits to brag about my accomplishments or even an acknowledgment of my work done, because it only means something to people who need to be able to brag. I wouldn't even care if SETI did away with credit altogether. I'd sill help. Would you?

I find my pride in who I am, not how many points I rack up.

I applaude you for that. Why is it so wrong for the project to require at least a version that at least reports everything correctly?


Because Dr. Korpela has told me directly that he does not want to cut off any BOINC versions, period. He is not willing to cut off useful science just to appease those who are in it for the credits only.

Ask yourself this, and look at it from the project's point of view (and stop thinking that the volunteer's view is the only one that really matters): why would you want to cut off valid science because a few people are upset about credit? ...and if you do something to appease them, what message does that send to them as to making dictates and demands? Where does it stop? If the entire volunteer base gets to make all the calls because "without them, there would be no one crunching", then what directions would the project take, and more importantly, would they be the proper ones that are in the best interests of the project, or would they be made in the sole interest of those making the demands? See if you can answer those questions truthfully.
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1mp0£173
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Message 861511 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 5:59:03 UTC - in response to Message 861073.  

I bet that anybody running an AP task that happened to get paired with a wingman claiming zero is really gonna agree with you.

It's happened to me.

I took the number of credits (zero) and multiplied it by the cash value of each credit (zero) and realized that it didn't make that much difference.

I like credit, but it does not rule my life.

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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 861526 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 6:48:08 UTC - in response to Message 861511.  

I bet that anybody running an AP task that happened to get paired with a wingman claiming zero is really gonna agree with you.

It's happened to me.

I took the number of credits (zero) and multiplied it by the cash value of each credit (zero) and realized that it didn't make that much difference.

I like credit, but it does not rule my life.



Rush him to the hospital ... this could be fatal ....
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Profile Byron S Goodgame
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Message 861545 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 8:16:29 UTC
Last modified: 3 Feb 2009, 8:51:17 UTC

I really don't have anything different to add but I've had a 0 credit AP that got no credit in the end. Didn't care as long as the science was good and got used in the result.

Had several MB do the same. Same as previous.

If I start getting errors on my pc's and the science can't be used, then I care and will do what is needed to get my system in line. To me, that sounds like a more realistic concern than how much credit the task got.

Having a system that generates 0 credits but valid work is hardly a reason to exclude that pc from contributing. They are as vital a resource at SETI as any other system that generates valid results with the correct credits.

Ozz is absolutely correct here IMO. The motivation that should have gotten us all to sign up to SETI in the first place, (which I should think would be the science) should remain the priority. When I first signed up I didn't even know there were credits. It's good the project and folks like Ozz can keep the perspective and priorities of the project in mind.

Edit: spelling
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Profile Jord
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Message 861584 - Posted: 3 Feb 2009, 12:19:14 UTC - in response to Message 861487.  

Wholehearted plus one on everything, Charlie. Thumbs up. :-)

Turning the poster's comments around, showing where his thought-patterns went wrong:
wouldn't be squat if it were not for the volunteers processing the work
...
if your employer decided to pay you only 10% of your paycheck you're ok with that as long as the check cashes?

When you are doing volunteer work, you don't get a paycheck. When you are getting a paycheck, you aren't doing volunteer work.

Simple. :-)
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Message 863153 - Posted: 7 Feb 2009, 14:51:00 UTC

I will assume, this is the right place to post these slightly odd MB WU results....http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=409540427 Both results look the same to me, but then, I'm not a computer!
Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 863187 - Posted: 7 Feb 2009, 16:51:50 UTC - in response to Message 863153.  
Last modified: 7 Feb 2009, 16:52:36 UTC

I will assume, this is the right place to post these slightly odd MB WU results....http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/workunit.php?wuid=409540427 Both results look the same to me, but then, I'm not a computer!


What exactly do you think is wrong with this one? It just looks like a normal pending WU to me...

-Dave
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Message 863189 - Posted: 7 Feb 2009, 17:04:36 UTC - in response to Message 863153.  

What both results? You have completed the task, he hasn't yet. If he completes and the results are valadated then you will get your credits.


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Message 863194 - Posted: 7 Feb 2009, 17:19:18 UTC - in response to Message 863153.  

Are you sure you didn't mean this result? As then that's because you were paired against a 4.43 client, which does these fine things. Read the rest of this thread about why that is.
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Message 863860 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009, 18:33:24 UTC - in response to Message 863189.  

The4 feb, my WU ap_20dc08ab_B2_P1_00372_20090122_18999.wu_0_0 was finished, uploaded and validated, but at the same time, sent to a third machine.

Today, resultat: 0 credits. why ?

it's simple

no credit, no work, no AP
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Message 863865 - Posted: 9 Feb 2009, 18:50:47 UTC - in response to Message 863860.  

Ok, I can't find that WU on your computers but I will try to answer. Was it completed and the other two got credit? If so then it wasn't similar enough to the first wingman and that triggered a resend. When the third man sent his back it was compared to yours and the other wingman's. His was closer to the third so they got the credit and yours didn't. Something was wrong with yours that caused it to report differently than the other two.

Have you sent in other AP WUs that have validated? If so then it was just something causing you to get some extra noise in your work.I know it's no consolation but it happens to all of us at one time or the other.


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Message 864338 - Posted: 11 Feb 2009, 15:07:47 UTC - in response to Message 863865.  

an other 0 credits ??

look at Wu 398754583 ! strange wingman cpu-power x2, work-time x2, credit x2

resultat: my and his WU are pending

perhaps a third machine ?

excuse my grammar, i'm not english
http://www.boincstats.com/stats/banner.php?id=10628
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Message 864343 - Posted: 11 Feb 2009, 15:28:32 UTC - in response to Message 864338.  

1431 credits claimed? The validator is probably too busy laughing to give you your credit. :)


Your wingman on that one is running Version 4.4.5. It is seriously overclaiming on his work. You should get your claimed credit as soon as the validator stops laughing. I feel sorry for him after spending 1,011,378 seconds working on that one but your credit claim is the correct one.


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Message 864344 - Posted: 11 Feb 2009, 15:33:25 UTC - in response to Message 864338.  

No, it is even simpler than that. Apparently they are not running the AstroPulse Validator right now.

Thus, when it is not running no AstroPulse workunits can clear and have credit granted.

HTH,

Alinator
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Message 864351 - Posted: 11 Feb 2009, 15:49:12 UTC - in response to Message 864344.  

That's what I said, as soon as the validator stops laughing....... :)


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Message 864380 - Posted: 11 Feb 2009, 17:18:13 UTC - in response to Message 864351.  

That's what I said, as soon as the validator stops laughing....... :)


Hmmmm...

I was thinking along the lines that when disabled it's in stasis, thus oblivious to everything around it. But that's splitting hairs! :-D

As far as the claim goes, I don't see anything wrong with it since 4.45 uses straight BMT for the claim. I looked at the benchmarks and the run times for the other work shown for it, and they seem reasonable for a host of that class. When I turned the crank manually, that was what I came up with for a claimed credit too.

So you can interpret that anyway you see fit when it comes to scoring and what the basis is set at here on SAH. ;-)

Alinator
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Message boards : Number crunching : zero credit


 
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