Fun with Falling Oil Hypocrisy!!

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Message 852527 - Posted: 12 Jan 2009, 1:35:21 UTC

Anyone watch 60 minutes? Those crooks at Enron (defunct now thank god) seem to have had a hand in the run up in oil. The same traders that defrauded California worked their black magic with oil too. I wonder where the crooks are now. Where the next big bubble bursts, I bet you will find someone that came from Enron.
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Message 852649 - Posted: 12 Jan 2009, 13:02:01 UTC

Rushbo,

Hope you saw 60 minutes and paid attention. There was 27 times more oil being traded on the Commodities Futures Market than was being produced. The money ? to buy this was simply the notion of LEVERAGE. Demand was falling while production was increasing yet the price was going up over a dollar at the pump and almost $100 per barrel.

During the collapse in prices demand was off by 5% while the price fell $100 dollars at the pump. This cannot be explained by supply and demand --only by increased margin requirements.

We will all be waiting to see your confession and conversion to the realities and evils of rules that are lax or not enforced in the Markets.

For your penance say three Hail Mary's , a good Act of Contrition and give yourself three Dope Slaps.

Affectionately,

Father, Daddio SJ
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Message 852705 - Posted: 12 Jan 2009, 16:51:53 UTC - in response to Message 852649.  
Last modified: 12 Jan 2009, 16:54:08 UTC

Rushbo,

Hope you saw 60 minutes and paid attention. There was 27 times more oil being traded on the Commodities Futures Market than was being produced. The money ? to buy this was simply the notion of LEVERAGE. Demand was falling while production was increasing yet the price was going up over a dollar at the pump and almost $100 per barrel.

During the collapse in prices demand was off by 5% while the price fell $100 dollars at the pump. This cannot be explained by supply and demand --only by increased margin requirements.

We will all be waiting to see your confession and conversion to the realities and evils of rules that are lax or not enforced in the Markets.

For your penance say three Hail Mary's , a good Act of Contrition and give yourself three Dope Slaps.

Affectionately,

Father, Daddio SJ


Rush says Hail Mary's?! I think that if he wants to say any Hail's it'd rather be Hail Ayn's.
"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

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Message 852852 - Posted: 13 Jan 2009, 2:07:43 UTC - in response to Message 852649.  

Rushbo,

...give yourself three Dope Slaps.


me@rescam.org
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Message 854334 - Posted: 16 Jan 2009, 19:37:26 UTC

Oil prices falling, demand down; yet gasoline prices going up. Supply is being controlled to keep margins up to 40 cents per gallon from the suppliers.

So: "supply and demand" --sure, but not a free market --one that is being price fixed and manipulated by a CARTEL.
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Message 854355 - Posted: 16 Jan 2009, 20:38:31 UTC - in response to Message 852649.  

Rushbo,

Hope you saw 60 minutes and paid attention.

No, of course not. I'm not of the mind that pop culture references are of any real value, well, except as pop culture. Certainly not a TV show that generally panders to the lowest common denominator.

There was 27 times more oil being traded on the Commodities Futures Market than was being produced.

I have no idea if this is true or not, given that it's 60 Minutes, and that they were futures. Which market? All of them? Were all the participants sticking guns into each other's faces and forcing them to participate, to buy and sell because the guy with the gun said so? Or were they are all there of their own free will to buy and sell to their benefit?

The money ? to buy this was simply the notion of LEVERAGE.

Yeah, of course. At its simplest, leverage allows you to buy your home. You leverage your down payment into controlling 10 or even 20 or even 100 times the money you have, into a home for yourself. It can magnify your profits by allowing you to take larger positions than you otherwise would have--conversely, it can magnify your losses just as easily. If you don't understand how leverage works and why it is important for free participants in a free market, I can't help you.

Demand was falling while production was increasing yet the price was going up over a dollar at the pump and almost $100 per barrel.

Of course. None of this happens in lock step. Supply and demand take time to percolate through the system. Prices are high, so people start to build refineries, but those take years to build. Prices are low, so they shut down construction of the same. Or cut production because they are losing money, et cetera ad infinitum. This all takes time to be reflected in markets, pump price, wholesale price, and all the rest.

During the collapse in prices demand was off by 5% while the price fell $100 dollars at the pump. This cannot be explained by supply and demand --only by increased margin requirements.

So what? You have no right to so-called cheap gasoline. If you think that all you have to do is evade the markets, well, then you should get everyone that thinks like you do and just sell gasoline for whatever the hell price you choose. Given the level of sophistication of many of the posts here, you should be able to get 1/2 the people on this board to buy into that idea. Just sell it for $0.50. Forever.

Really. It's just that easy. Shell just doesn't want you to know.

However, this is ALL supply and demand, I can't make that any simpler. But there are INFINITE types of supply and demand--it isn't just consumer demand into consumer vehicles at the pump, that's just ONE type. There is S&D for the oil company, the consumer, the shipper, speculators, the hauler, the refiner, the shareholder, the wholesaler, the investor, the retailer, the commercial interests, speculation about the future, what economies are doing, how much they expand or contract, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on, on so many different levels. That (in a very simple way) is what comprises supply and demand, and it explains EVERY SINGLE PENNY of price fluctuations at the pump, because ALL of these costs are reflected directly in the price. Eventually.

We will all be waiting to see your confession and conversion to the realities and evils of rules that are lax or not enforced in the Markets.

The rules are simple. Don't buy what is priced too high for the marginal value to you.
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 854357 - Posted: 16 Jan 2009, 20:40:32 UTC - in response to Message 854334.  

Oil prices falling, demand down; yet gasoline prices going up. Supply is being controlled to keep margins up to 40 cents per gallon from the suppliers.

So: "supply and demand" --sure, but not a free market --one that is being price fixed and manipulated by a CARTEL.

Yep. One that is soooo effective, they let price fall from nearly $150 per barrel, to $40.

That's some brilliant cartel you got there. Tomorrow OPEC is just going to charge $200 a barrel. Why? Because they sez so.

Oh, wait, they can't...
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 854361 - Posted: 16 Jan 2009, 20:45:58 UTC

it's not OPEC. The refiners and suppliers also have a Cartel,

The problem is 3-fold. OPEC Cartel, Speculator Manipulation, and refiner price fixing through control of supply.
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Message 854419 - Posted: 16 Jan 2009, 23:39:30 UTC

Price of gasoline is creeping up to $2/gal.
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Message 854478 - Posted: 17 Jan 2009, 2:00:47 UTC - in response to Message 854419.  

Price of gasoline is creeping up to $2/gal.


I just filled my tank at $1.799/gallon. The same pump was priced as $1.959/gallon yesterday.

Rumors of the price of gasoline becoming more stable are greatly exaggerated.
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Message 854548 - Posted: 17 Jan 2009, 5:50:38 UTC

All of this is very scary. It is as if an unseen force is pushing us toward Socialism, kind of like the old StarTrek episode where the unseen force was causing Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise to fight a Klingon crew. If the government does not intervene, the rich with their me before everyone else atitude will destroy the middle class. I remember my Sunday School classes where the teacher talked about a one world government and a mark without which a person could not buy or sell. Cartels and monopolies are making some necessary products too expensive, almost enslaving us, while WalMart with its low prices and margins is driving down wages. The rich are using their wealth to challenge democratic rule. In case not everyone got it, the rich just forced the government to pay a ransom or they would destroy our economy.
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Message 854868 - Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 2:03:36 UTC - in response to Message 854361.  

it's not OPEC. The refiners and suppliers also have a Cartel,

The problem is 3-fold. OPEC Cartel, Speculator Manipulation, and refiner price fixing through control of supply.

I'll just cut and paste with a bit of editing.

Yep. That refiner and supplier cartel that is soooo effective, they let price fall from nearly $150 per barrel, to $40.

That's some brilliant "OPEC Cartel, Speculator Manipulation, and refiner price fixing through control of supply cartel" you got there. Tomorrow they are just going to charge $200 a barrel. Why? Because they sez so.

Oh, wait, they can't...
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 854952 - Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 7:33:27 UTC

Prices here have passed $2 a gallon. Yay cartel!
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Message 855046 - Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 14:52:29 UTC - in response to Message 854361.  

it's not OPEC. The refiners and suppliers also have a Cartel,

The problem is 3-fold. OPEC Cartel, Speculator Manipulation, and refiner price fixing through control of supply.


The OPEC reduced their production quickly after the price of Oil was down.
Why do you think?



With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 855076 - Posted: 18 Jan 2009, 16:31:35 UTC - in response to Message 854868.  

Is supply being controlled ??
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Message boards : Politics : Fun with Falling Oil Hypocrisy!!


 
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