Seagate.......grrrrr

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Message 822992 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:08:11 UTC - in response to Message 822990.  

Freddie Mercury said it best ... Another One Bites The Dust

Wondering if they were part of a bad batch / lot all manufactured around the same time?

Of course they were...........I bought all 3 of them at the same time
Made in Thailand..........blokes must have heen smoking too much Thai stick at the factory that day............



Ya Baa more likely...
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Message 822993 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:13:12 UTC - in response to Message 822992.  

Freddie Mercury said it best ... Another One Bites The Dust

Wondering if they were part of a bad batch / lot all manufactured around the same time?

Of course they were...........I bought all 3 of them at the same time
Made in Thailand..........blokes must have heen smoking too much Thai stick at the factory that day............



Ya Baa more likely...

Ya ba.........(crash........oh.....wat wus dat, mon???)
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Message 822995 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:20:02 UTC - in response to Message 822990.  

Freddie Mercury said it best ... Another One Bites The Dust

Wondering if they were part of a bad batch / lot all manufactured around the same time?

Of course they were...........I bought all 3 of them at the same time
Made in Thailand..........blokes must have heen smoking too much Thai stick at the factory that day............






Sounds like the ST-4096 hdd failure fiasco all over again, Lots of them were being made and the quality control was very bad, Hope You can get a refund or store credit for the Junk Drives.
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Message 822997 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:31:12 UTC

Any preludes (clicks of death, etc) prior to the sudden death that WD and Seagate have been known to make?

Btw... checkout the reviews at Tiger Direct ... quite a few complaints about drives suddenly dying...
REVIEW BY: nick Reviewed Jul 26, 2008
What a pc of junk. Put two of these in a new system for a CUSTOMER, took it home, primary drive lasted long enough for them to back everything up off their old computer. Then it fried, got credit for that one. Then I reinstalled everything for them on the one remaining drive. Worked great for three months. Bang, that ones is dead too! Junk! Stay Away!

REVIEW BY: Reviewed Apr 10, 2008
Bought this drive a week ago, released the jumper, plugged it in to the MOBO, Turned on my computer, Formatted the drive ''NTFS'', copied my public folder a.k.a. Documents (excel,word,outlook,quickbooks), music (10,000 mp3's) Videos (TV Series, Movies) and Software (everything from photoshop to office etc... around 180gb's of software) worked great super fast. cleaned up the space on my primary drive leaving all of my stuff on the new drive and BAM!!!!! GONE!!!!! stopped working, lost everything, unrecoverable. I bought every program for recovering files I could find and none of them would work because the disc would stop working half way into the recovery. Don't buy this disc or you will lose everything.

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Message 822999 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:33:22 UTC - in response to Message 822993.  

I got 2 of the same exact drives at the same time from Tiger Direct about 2 months ago but mine are OK I just think the software is very bad and I do not recommend Sea Gate Drives.
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Message 823000 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:34:56 UTC - in response to Message 822997.  
Last modified: 25 Oct 2008, 4:36:28 UTC

Any preludes (clicks of death, etc) prior to the sudden death that WD and Seagate have been known to make?

Btw... checkout the reviews at Tiger Direct ... quite a few complaints about drives suddenly dying...
REVIEW BY: nick Reviewed Jul 26, 2008
What a pc of junk. Put two of these in a new system for a CUSTOMER, took it home, primary drive lasted long enough for them to back everything up off their old computer. Then it fried, got credit for that one. Then I reinstalled everything for them on the one remaining drive. Worked great for three months. Bang, that ones is dead too! Junk! Stay Away!

REVIEW BY: Reviewed Apr 10, 2008
Bought this drive a week ago, released the jumper, plugged it in to the MOBO, Turned on my computer, Formatted the drive ''NTFS'', copied my public folder a.k.a. Documents (excel,word,outlook,quickbooks), music (10,000 mp3's) Videos (TV Series, Movies) and Software (everything from photoshop to office etc... around 180gb's of software) worked great super fast. cleaned up the space on my primary drive leaving all of my stuff on the new drive and BAM!!!!! GONE!!!!! stopped working, lost everything, unrecoverable. I bought every program for recovering files I could find and none of them would work because the disc would stop working half way into the recovery. Don't buy this disc or you will lose everything.

Ah yes, The Seagate curse is back. ;)

I'm lucky though that My 250GB Seagate has always worked and It's the only Seagate I own too.
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Message 823002 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:47:16 UTC - in response to Message 820825.  

Ahhhhhhh....so it appears there is a difference between a hard drive that they expect to be turned on and off with limited running hours as in a desktop application and one that they expect to be running 24/7 as in a server (or in my case Seti crunching) application.....

Desktop-class drives are made from components that are certified/tested for three to four power-cycles per day. The average drive only spends a few hours powered on per day, so they tend to run cooler.

Enterprise-class drives are made for the long haul. They use components certified/tested for one power-cycle per (manufacturer's choice of interval - usually a month or so). They are designed for 24/365, and can tolerate higher temps.

That's why normal desktop drives fail quicker on the SETI@home crunchers that run close to 24/365 - they just aren't made for that kind of abuse. It's kind of like using a minivan at a long-haul trucking company.
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Message 823006 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 4:53:47 UTC

My Seagates have a 120MM fan blowing on them and they do not get above 35C or 36C
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Message 823088 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 10:05:39 UTC

Funny thing.
A friend of mine just brought a failed 250GB Seagate HD for inspection (and this one was made in Thailand too). Luckily I read this thread and now I don't think I will even plug that brick into my PC.
Otherwise, I have been more than satisfied with Samsungs for almost 2 years now. They run quiet, reliable and cool. In one Core2 PC (e6600) I have 2x500GB in RAID0 configuration, in the other (q9450) there are 4x750GB in RAID10, working superwell.

Greetings,
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Message 823095 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 11:28:43 UTC - in response to Message 822997.  

Any preludes (clicks of death, etc) prior to the sudden death that WD and Seagate have been known to make?

Btw... checkout the reviews at Tiger Direct ... quite a few complaints about drives suddenly dying...
REVIEW BY: nick Reviewed Jul 26, 2008
What a pc of junk. Put two of these in a new system for a CUSTOMER, took it home, primary drive lasted long enough for them to back everything up off their old computer. Then it fried, got credit for that one. Then I reinstalled everything for them on the one remaining drive. Worked great for three months. Bang, that ones is dead too! Junk! Stay Away!

REVIEW BY: Reviewed Apr 10, 2008
Bought this drive a week ago, released the jumper, plugged it in to the MOBO, Turned on my computer, Formatted the drive ''NTFS'', copied my public folder a.k.a. Documents (excel,word,outlook,quickbooks), music (10,000 mp3's) Videos (TV Series, Movies) and Software (everything from photoshop to office etc... around 180gb's of software) worked great super fast. cleaned up the space on my primary drive leaving all of my stuff on the new drive and BAM!!!!! GONE!!!!! stopped working, lost everything, unrecoverable. I bought every program for recovering files I could find and none of them would work because the disc would stop working half way into the recovery. Don't buy this disc or you will lose everything.

No.......nary a whimper from that drives before they died..........
Just cruzing along on the forums as usual and suddenly things came to a dead stop.........
Will have to try and contact Tiger tomorrow or Monday...........
If this had not happened to me personally, I would not have believed it......would have suspected operator error or some other factor.......
And I even kept tabs on the running temp of this last one.......not actual readings, but just finger temps......it was not running hot.

Seems like a cruel joke.........maybe I should contact Seagate instead of Tiger......I am just so ticked right now I don't know which way to turn......
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 823121 - Posted: 25 Oct 2008, 12:56:32 UTC - in response to Message 823095.  

Any preludes (clicks of death, etc) prior to the sudden death that WD and Seagate have been known to make?

Btw... checkout the reviews at Tiger Direct ... quite a few complaints about drives suddenly dying...
REVIEW BY: nick Reviewed Jul 26, 2008
What a pc of junk. Put two of these in a new system for a CUSTOMER, took it home, primary drive lasted long enough for them to back everything up off their old computer. Then it fried, got credit for that one. Then I reinstalled everything for them on the one remaining drive. Worked great for three months. Bang, that ones is dead too! Junk! Stay Away!

REVIEW BY: Reviewed Apr 10, 2008
Bought this drive a week ago, released the jumper, plugged it in to the MOBO, Turned on my computer, Formatted the drive ''NTFS'', copied my public folder a.k.a. Documents (excel,word,outlook,quickbooks), music (10,000 mp3's) Videos (TV Series, Movies) and Software (everything from photoshop to office etc... around 180gb's of software) worked great super fast. cleaned up the space on my primary drive leaving all of my stuff on the new drive and BAM!!!!! GONE!!!!! stopped working, lost everything, unrecoverable. I bought every program for recovering files I could find and none of them would work because the disc would stop working half way into the recovery. Don't buy this disc or you will lose everything.

No.......nary a whimper from that drives before they died..........
Just cruzing along on the forums as usual and suddenly things came to a dead stop.........
Will have to try and contact Tiger tomorrow or Monday...........
If this had not happened to me personally, I would not have believed it......would have suspected operator error or some other factor.......
And I even kept tabs on the running temp of this last one.......not actual readings, but just finger temps......it was not running hot.

Seems like a cruel joke.........maybe I should contact Seagate instead of Tiger......I am just so ticked right now I don't know which way to turn......

I'd contact Seagate this time, But It's Your Nickel. Good Luck Mark.
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Message 823613 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 20:14:30 UTC

So what do you think about this Seagate drive for another try at getting my daily driver back online?

Seagate SV35.3 ST3500320SV 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

They list it for video surveillance systems, so it would seem to be aimed more at 24/7 operation than some others....

I still gotta contact Seagate about my 3 bricks under warranty, but they are probably gonna just wanna send me refurbs of the same drives to replace my less than 60 day old units.........not sure I would ever really trust the old model again....
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Message 823615 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 20:22:59 UTC - in response to Message 823613.  

So what do you think about this Seagate drive for another try at getting my daily driver back online?

Seagate SV35.3 ST3500320SV 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

They list it for video surveillance systems, so it would seem to be aimed more at 24/7 operation than some others....

I still gotta contact Seagate about my 3 bricks under warranty, but they are probably gonna just wanna send me refurbs of the same drives to replace my less than 60 day old units.........not sure I would ever really trust the old model again....

The refurbs are a slightly better bet possibly as Seagate might have fixed whatever flaw is causing the drives to go and brick themselves.
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Message 823618 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 20:33:18 UTC - in response to Message 823613.  

So what do you think about this Seagate drive for another try at getting my daily driver back online?

Seagate SV35.3 ST3500320SV 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

They list it for video surveillance systems, so it would seem to be aimed more at 24/7 operation than some others....

Mark, please maybe I'm wrong but please make sure that this type of drive has error correction. You might think that all drives have, but I know that some drives aimed at e.g. 'video recorders' with harddisks in them have special drives that don't do any (or at least a lot less) error checking. For video a couple of bits falling over isn't all that important. Leaving out the error checking makes the drives faster, which results in less hickups during recording and playback. I've got such a drive in my own harddisk recorder (replaced the 160GB in there with a 500 GB one) and discovered about error checking when I tried to find out what was so special about those drives. The DB-series of disks belongs to this class of 'video harddisks' (my original 160 GB disk in a Humax 'video recorder' was a 'Seagate DB35.2 Consumer Storage' disk). Video surveillance may be another area where error checking the bytes written may not have a high priority ....

I'll look around a bit whether I can find more info on these drives. But maybe you should do so yourself as well before deciding to buy any.

Regards,
John.
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Message 823620 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 20:36:00 UTC - in response to Message 823618.  

So what do you think about this Seagate drive for another try at getting my daily driver back online?

Seagate SV35.3 ST3500320SV 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

They list it for video surveillance systems, so it would seem to be aimed more at 24/7 operation than some others....

Mark, please maybe I'm wrong but please make sure that this type of drive has error correction. You might think that all drives have, but I know that some drives aimed at e.g. 'video recorders' with harddisks in them have special drives that don't do any (or at least a lot less) error checking. For video a couple of bits falling over isn't all that important. Leaving out the error checking makes the drives faster, which results in less hickups during recording and playback. I've got such a drive in my own harddisk recorder (replaced the 160GB in there with a 500 GB one) and discovered about error checking when I tried to find out what was so special about those drives. The DB-series of disks belongs to this class of 'video harddisks' (my original 160 GB disk in a Humax 'video recorder' was a 'Seagate DB35.2 Consumer Storage' disk). Video surveillance may be another area where error checking the bytes written may not have a high priority ....

I'll look around a bit whether I can find more info on these drives. But maybe you should do so yourself as well before deciding to buy any.

Regards,
John.

Oh geez.....yet another wrinkle.......thanks for the heads-up.

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Message 823621 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 20:37:20 UTC - in response to Message 823618.  

So what do you think about this Seagate drive for another try at getting my daily driver back online?

Seagate SV35.3 ST3500320SV 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

They list it for video surveillance systems, so it would seem to be aimed more at 24/7 operation than some others....

Mark, please maybe I'm wrong but please make sure that this type of drive has error correction. You might think that all drives have, but I know that some drives aimed at e.g. 'video recorders' with harddisks in them have special drives that don't do any (or at least a lot less) error checking. For video a couple of bits falling over isn't all that important. Leaving out the error checking makes the drives faster, which results in less hickups during recording and playback. I've got such a drive in my own harddisk recorder (replaced the 160GB in there with a 500 GB one) and discovered about error checking when I tried to find out what was so special about those drives. The DB-series of disks belongs to this class of 'video harddisks' (my original 160 GB disk in a Humax 'video recorder' was a 'Seagate DB35.2 Consumer Storage' disk). Video surveillance may be another area where error checking the bytes written may not have a high priority ....

I'll look around a bit whether I can find more info on these drives. But maybe you should do so yourself as well before deciding to buy any.

Regards,
John.

Good point.
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Message 823623 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 20:43:32 UTC

Do you zero out all of drives before using them? That is write all zero's (or 1's) in every single bit. Then test the surface etc with whatever program you have in your system. Since I run Mac's my names won't help you. So far I have not had a disk, either portable or installed after purchase on desk machines that has failed, but my universe is small, less than ten total drives in six machines and four backup movable drives.

Right now I'm on my MacBook Pro with dual core cpu. A very nice machine. Has both speeds of firewire which is nice to move files fast. I have a couple of backup drives that can take the high speed. Nice for timesaver and for file moving between other household machines.


duke, who is enjoying a superb fall day on the east coast.



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Message 823628 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 21:11:09 UTC - in response to Message 823620.  

Oh geez.....yet another wrinkle.......thanks for the heads-up.


I've had a very quick look at some datasheets of the sv35.2 series and the Barracuda 7200.10 series, especially as far as reliability/data integrity is concerned.

For the 'regular' barracude it says: Nonrecoverable Read Errors per Bits Read
1 per 10E14

For the sv series (and my db video recorder series as well) it says: Nonrecoverable Read Errors per Bits Read 1 sector per 10E14

I'm not into this stuff, so I don't know whether this is actually different. But with my limited knowledge I of this technology I would expect a complete sector to get lost when an error occurs on the sv series, whereas on the regular disks only 1 bit would get mangled.

It says in the description of the sv series seagate that sv disks are also suitable for data storage:

The enhanced functionality of SV35 Series drives
doesn’t end there. Video security drives are
primarily used for streaming video, but they must
also be capable of conventional data reads and
writes, used in the course of managing video
databases and related applications. SV35 Series
drives support the ATA-7 command set, enabling
their read/write profi les to be tuned to video- or
data-specifi c, as appropriate.


I'm not sure what all that means. The only thing that I can say is that if I were to buy such a drive I would not at all feel comfortable about using it in a computer for data storage. But then again, this may be totally unjustified. Sorry I can't be of any more help.

Regards,
John.
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Message 823662 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 22:22:32 UTC - in response to Message 823628.  

Oh geez.....yet another wrinkle.......thanks for the heads-up.


I've had a very quick look at some datasheets of the sv35.2 series and the Barracuda 7200.10 series, especially as far as reliability/data integrity is concerned.

For the 'regular' barracude it says: Nonrecoverable Read Errors per Bits Read
1 per 10E14

For the sv series (and my db video recorder series as well) it says: Nonrecoverable Read Errors per Bits Read 1 sector per 10E14

I'm not into this stuff, so I don't know whether this is actually different. But with my limited knowledge I of this technology I would expect a complete sector to get lost when an error occurs on the sv series, whereas on the regular disks only 1 bit would get mangled.

It says in the description of the sv series seagate that sv disks are also suitable for data storage:

The enhanced functionality of SV35 Series drives
doesn’t end there. Video security drives are
primarily used for streaming video, but they must
also be capable of conventional data reads and
writes, used in the course of managing video
databases and related applications. SV35 Series
drives support the ATA-7 command set, enabling
their read/write profi les to be tuned to video- or
data-specifi c, as appropriate.


I'm not sure what all that means. The only thing that I can say is that if I were to buy such a drive I would not at all feel comfortable about using it in a computer for data storage. But then again, this may be totally unjustified. Sorry I can't be of any more help.

Regards,
John.

I believe it means you can command the controller in the drive to either turn on or turn off error checking. At the controller level there is usually a setting of how many retries on read before an error is reported. Also on write if the drive performs an immediate read back check to verify data. This is intentionally hidden from the normal user.


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Message 823695 - Posted: 27 Oct 2008, 0:01:18 UTC

I test my drives before I install them even brand new out of the box or a used one from any source. I have never had a hard drive failure I guess I am lucky in that regard.
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