aig take over .... socialism ??

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Message 810181 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 4:52:22 UTC
Last modified: 20 Sep 2008, 4:54:20 UTC

Hey BSR, post some numbers. Who receives more gov money? Poor or Rich. I would like to see.

I would rather give a little money to a lot of people who have little, than give a lot of money to a few who already are living in mansions any day.

If the gov is going to bailout anyone, I think they should go right to the people who would benefit the most. That would be the people who need a place to live.
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Message 810185 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 5:12:14 UTC
Last modified: 20 Sep 2008, 5:42:25 UTC

$586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security
$548.8 billion (+9.0%) - Defense[2]
$394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare
$294.0 billion (+2.0%) - Unemployment and welfare
$276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related
$243.7 billion (+13.4%) - Interest on debt
$89.9 billion (+1.3%) - Education and training
$76.9 billion (+8.1%) - Transportation

I did a quick look at wikipedia. Lets toss out the first one. SS goes to both rich and poor and you have to pay in so it is a wash in my view. #2 I would say goes to the rich and to the working man so I would have to give it to the rich not the poor. #3 goes to the poor.

Helping banks get rid of bad assets will carry a price tag in the "hundreds of billions of dollars," Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said. --- from CBS Market Watch.

Now when you consider that hundreds of billions are going to wall street bailouts... I argue that the Rich get more than the poor do from our Gov. The poor are much more numerous as well so anything they get is very diluted compared to the few Rich. And the cost of the wars is not even shown. That spending is definitely not helping a single poor person, unless they are the cannon fodder in the military.
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Message 810239 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 11:18:45 UTC - in response to Message 810181.  
Last modified: 20 Sep 2008, 11:27:39 UTC

Hey BSR, post some numbers. Who receives more gov money? Poor or Rich. I would like to see.

I would rather give a little money to a lot of people who have little, than give a lot of money to a few who already are living in mansions any day.

If the gov is going to bailout anyone, I think they should go right to the people who would benefit the most. That would be the people who need a place to live.


That's the point.

No one is supposed to BENEFIT from welfare. You want to cut it out, then let's cut it out, but don't sit there and say one deserves it more than the other when they BOTH meet the criteria for assistance.


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Message 810240 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 11:25:37 UTC - in response to Message 810185.  
Last modified: 20 Sep 2008, 12:23:37 UTC

$586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security
$548.8 billion (+9.0%) - Defense[2]
$394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare
$294.0 billion (+2.0%) - Unemployment and welfare
$276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related
$243.7 billion (+13.4%) - Interest on debt
$89.9 billion (+1.3%) - Education and training
$76.9 billion (+8.1%) - Transportation

I did a quick look at wikipedia. Lets toss out the first one. SS goes to both rich and poor and you have to pay in so it is a wash in my view. #2 I would say goes to the rich and to the working man so I would have to give it to the rich not the poor. #3 goes to the poor.


Did you SERIOUSLY expect me to believe that the defense budget doesn't protect the poor every bit as much as the rich?

Furthermore, SS IS welfare for the poor (a one-way exchange of goods or services). You are not paying into a savings account that you can withdraw funds from at a later date. You are paying for those individuals currently on the system.

Not to mention Education and Training. If you live in a normal household, your 18 year old child WILL NOT qualify for financial aid when he goes off to college while all 5 of Shequia's kids, raised in the projects on government hand-outs, will...

By my count, 5 of your 8 directly benefit the poor. I mean, fat rich white guys aren't taking the bus to the free clinic because they can't afford their own car and medical insurance, right? Their kids aren't standing in the financial aid line at school hoping all their paperwork goes through so he/she can get a meal card and a dorm room to share with a stranger, right?

Helping banks get rid of bad assets will carry a price tag in the "hundreds of billions of dollars," Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said. --- from CBS Market Watch.


BrainSmashR says if we allowed banks to repossess property and assests said buyers cannot afford, then we wouldn't have to bail them out in the first place.

Now when you consider that hundreds of billions are going to wall street bailouts... I argue that the Rich get more than the poor do from our Gov. The poor are much more numerous as well so anything they get is very diluted compared to the few Rich. And the cost of the wars is not even shown. That spending is definitely not helping a single poor person, unless they are the cannon fodder in the military.


That's funny, because income taxes clearly show "the rich" giving back to society while those making less than 10k a year aren't even required to file taxes...and let's not forget those on Food Stamps are also skipping out on their portion of sales taxes as well...and of course if they don't own property, then they're obviously not paying property taxes either.


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Message 810273 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 15:12:54 UTC - in response to Message 810240.  

$586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security
$548.8 billion (+9.0%) - Defense[2]
$394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare
$294.0 billion (+2.0%) - Unemployment and welfare
$276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related
$243.7 billion (+13.4%) - Interest on debt
$89.9 billion (+1.3%) - Education and training
$76.9 billion (+8.1%) - Transportation

I did a quick look at wikipedia. Lets toss out the first one. SS goes to both rich and poor and you have to pay in so it is a wash in my view. #2 I would say goes to the rich and to the working man so I would have to give it to the rich not the poor. #3 goes to the poor.


Did you SERIOUSLY expect me to believe that the defense budget doesn't protect the poor every bit as much as the rich?

Furthermore, SS IS welfare for the poor (a one-way exchange of goods or services). You are not paying into a savings account that you can withdraw funds from at a later date. You are paying for those individuals currently on the system.

Not to mention Education and Training. If you live in a normal household, your 18 year old child WILL NOT qualify for financial aid when he goes off to college while all 5 of Shequia's kids, raised in the projects on government hand-outs, will...

By my count, 5 of your 8 directly benefit the poor. I mean, fat rich white guys aren't taking the bus to the free clinic because they can't afford their own car and medical insurance, right? Their kids aren't standing in the financial aid line at school hoping all their paperwork goes through so he/she can get a meal card and a dorm room to share with a stranger, right?

Helping banks get rid of bad assets will carry a price tag in the "hundreds of billions of dollars," Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said. --- from CBS Market Watch.


BrainSmashR says if we allowed banks to repossess property and assests said buyers cannot afford, then we wouldn't have to bail them out in the first place.

Now when you consider that hundreds of billions are going to wall street bailouts... I argue that the Rich get more than the poor do from our Gov. The poor are much more numerous as well so anything they get is very diluted compared to the few Rich. And the cost of the wars is not even shown. That spending is definitely not helping a single poor person, unless they are the cannon fodder in the military.


That's funny, because income taxes clearly show "the rich" giving back to society while those making less than 10k a year aren't even required to file taxes...and let's not forget those on Food Stamps are also skipping out on their portion of sales taxes as well...and of course if they don't own property, then they're obviously not paying property taxes either.



My understanding is that Republicans stand for fiscal conservatism however in the last eight years they have pillaged this country into financial turmoil.

They have repealed banking laws to benefit the fleet street people. Greed has run amok since Jan. 2001 with no accountability who make financial choices for this country. This has to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LETS BEGIN IN 2010
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Message 810284 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 15:32:06 UTC
Last modified: 20 Sep 2008, 15:40:31 UTC

Let these towers of greed and speculation crumble to the ground.
Deregulation of the markets is what the powerful capitalist interests wanted so damned well let them have it.

Take the tens of billions earmarked for corporate welfare and bail-outs (much of it is going to end up as golden parachutes for the idiots running these institutions into ruin) and put it toward a single payer healthcare system and infrastructure improvement projects to create work for American citizens.

Oh ya...and no one should lose their home over this corporate cash grab.
Let the money lenders and speculators shrivel up and die.
Once the institutions are gone, no one owns the debt on the homes anymore.

What are the powerful monied interests going to do to millions of American citizens who refuse to vacate and plant themselves on their front porches with a shotgun?
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Message 810343 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 18:27:08 UTC - in response to Message 810273.  


My understanding is that Republicans stand for fiscal conservatism however in the last eight years they have pillaged this country into financial turmoil.

They have repealed banking laws to benefit the fleet street people. Greed has run amok since Jan. 2001 with no accountability who make financial choices for this country. This has to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Maybe why we are commonly referred to as "neocons" rather than simply Republican.


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Message 810345 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 18:32:13 UTC - in response to Message 810284.  

What are the powerful monied interests going to do to millions of American citizens who refuse to vacate and plant themselves on their front porches with a shotgun?



Call the police and have them arrested for trespassing and while they are sitting in jail, hold a sheriff's auction and sell off their assets.

You are sadly mistaken if you think a majority of the world thinks like you do, Robert.


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Message 810351 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 18:55:14 UTC - in response to Message 810345.  

You are sadly mistaken if you think a majority of the world thinks like you do

Which would explain why it only took them less than a decade to destroy it... ;)

(Never underestimate stupid people in large numbers!)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 810372 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 20:09:27 UTC - in response to Message 810345.  
Last modified: 20 Sep 2008, 20:12:17 UTC

What are the powerful monied interests going to do to millions of American citizens who refuse to vacate and plant themselves on their front porches with a shotgun?



Call the police and have them arrested for trespassing and while they are sitting in jail, hold a sheriff's auction and sell off their assets.

You are sadly mistaken if you think a majority of the world thinks like you do, Robert.


Really
If the institutions are gone, who holds the paper on the home?

The only way for them to collect the debts is by being propped up by tax dollars.
Don't give them any tax dollars. Let them fall.

Better yet...let them starve like the jobless people you hold in such low regard.
Funny how your humanity extends only to corporations and the wealthy.
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Message 810373 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 20:23:39 UTC - in response to Message 810273.  



My understanding is that Republicans stand for fiscal conservatism however in the last eight years they have pillaged this country into financial turmoil.

They have repealed banking laws to benefit the fleet street people. Greed has run amok since Jan. 2001 with no accountability who make financial choices for this country. This has to stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In democracies worldwide, the party from the right wing always portrays itself as the fiscal genious.

The reality, which is very easy to google, is that under republican/conservative (or whatever name the right calls itself) governance, the debt and deficit are ALWAYS increased.
These are the believers in channeling all profits to a select few while cutting programs that help working people and the poor.

PS: Republican greed has been running amok since Reagan took up space in office.
Until that point in American history, Republican greed was only rampant.





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Message 810383 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 21:19:01 UTC - in response to Message 810373.  

These are the believers

You will know them by their fruits... ;)

(Do YOU have Jesus? No not THAT Jesus, the OTHER Jesus.)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 810399 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 22:33:20 UTC - in response to Message 810372.  
Last modified: 20 Sep 2008, 22:40:26 UTC


Really
If the institutions are gone, who holds the paper on the home?

The only way for them to collect the debts is by being propped up by tax dollars.
Don't give them any tax dollars. Let them fall.

Better yet...let them starve like the jobless people you hold in such low regard.
Funny how your humanity extends only to corporations and the wealthy.


If if's and but's were candies and nut's, what a wonderful Christmas we'd have.

The FACT of the matter is that the institutions are not gone and if allowed to repossess collateral and assets associated with said loans, they wouldn't be failing either.

Simple economics...a surplus of houses brings the price down, making them affordable to those capable of making sound financial decisions. Thus the loan company get's get's half the first buyer's money, AND get's to resell the home...no need to govt. handouts.

...and the BEST part is those of us who were smart enough to request a fixed rate on their mortgage aren't affected by the alleged crisis either way.

:)


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Message 810411 - Posted: 20 Sep 2008, 23:09:10 UTC - in response to Message 810399.  


The FACT of the matter is that the institutions are not gone and if allowed to repossess collateral and assets associated with said loans, they wouldn't be failing either.
:)


It seems to me that the system is so tilted toward the wants of the very few that even when they royally screw up by following their greed to new depths of depravity, they still win.

The government won't allow them to fail, so it kicks a trillion or more dollars to them, thus allowing the money lenders and speculators time to forclose on the poor to further enrich themselves.

TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA!





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Message 810429 - Posted: 21 Sep 2008, 0:49:10 UTC - in response to Message 810399.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2008, 0:53:14 UTC

...and the BEST part is those of us who were smart enough to request a fixed rate [snip]

I can't wait to hear the excuses when the college tuition bubble bursts... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 810572 - Posted: 21 Sep 2008, 12:18:03 UTC

" neocons " are just a new name to a con
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Message 810597 - Posted: 21 Sep 2008, 14:44:43 UTC

In the UK, we've seen a large bank, that was apparently, very 'liquid', being taken over by a rival. To allow this to happen, the government basically decided to bypass regulations on competition. Not only this, but restrictions on certain practices were enabled by the FSA, with respect to the Stock Exchange. All this, and more, being the result of 'short selling'.

If I understand this correctly, in essence, 'short selling' is where a broker or financial institution 'borrows' shares and sells them cheaply, anticipating that their subsequent value will fall and then buying back those shares at a lower price, thus making a profit. The difference, they keep.

In my books, and most other people's, that is theft! If I 'borrow' something that does not belong to me and then sell it and then buy the same thing again to replace it, but at a cheaper price, I would expect a visit from the Police and a lngthy stay in a snall room in a 'Government Hotel'! If a 'stock broker' or financial institution does it, thats called business. Did I miss something?

It seems to me, that the financial 'firewalls' that have been negated, both here and in the US some years ago, were there for a reason. Now the horses have bolted; unfortunately one of those horses belonged to one of the Horseman of the Apocolypse. At the very least, some of the safeguards that allowed the 'financial meltdown' of a number of companies, will be back in place, but some have still made profit from disaster. Is greed really that good?
Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 810721 - Posted: 21 Sep 2008, 19:34:25 UTC - in response to Message 810411.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2008, 19:35:32 UTC

It seems to me that the system is so tilted toward the wants of the very few that even when they royally screw up by following their greed to new depths of depravity, they still win.

The government won't allow them to fail, so it kicks a trillion or more dollars to them, thus allowing the money lenders and speculators time to forclose on the poor to further enrich themselves.

TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA!



The problem you still don't seem to comprehend is people like ME are not the "very few"...it's people like you.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say the VAST majority of the world pays their own way through life.


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Message 810722 - Posted: 21 Sep 2008, 19:37:31 UTC - in response to Message 810429.  

...and the BEST part is those of us who were smart enough to request a fixed rate [snip]

I can't wait to hear the excuses when the college tuition bubble bursts... ;)



Same as always...no one DESERVES that which they cannot afford.


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Message 810723 - Posted: 21 Sep 2008, 19:39:46 UTC - in response to Message 810597.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2008, 19:44:03 UTC

Now the horses have bolted; unfortunately one of those horses belonged to one of the Horseman of the Apocolypse.

That would be the rider of the 'black horse' who tipped the scales of weights and measures... ;)

(Revelation of John 6:1)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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