Aaaargh :-O

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Aaaargh :-O

Aaaaaaaaargh and doubly Aaaaaaaaaaargh.

OK, 'fess up: who got the transition plan by PM and forgot to pass it on?

Assuming it's not on Harry's Mac, the WU in question must be RID 1063434573: sent 19 Nov 2008 13:02:05 UTC - well before dawn.

?????

This can't be the first one, is it?

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This can't be the first one, is it?

It's the first public report, but probably not the first actual WU.

The trouble is, many of the regulars here will be using an optimised application: their app_info.xml files will have disguised and hidden the changed server behaviour.

Edit - confirmed, yes: just fetched new work (brand new: just split this second), and it was issued to a v4 optimised application without complaint. If the other half goes to a stock (now) v5.00 host, then it probably won't validate. I have suspended the new tasks while I finish off old work and think about what to do next.

This can't be the first one, is it?

It's the first public report, but probably not the first actual WU.

The trouble is, many of the regulars here will be using an optimised application: their app_info.xml files will have disguised and hidden the changed server behaviour.

Was asking this at Beta, but I guess here is where it needs to be asked. Do we need to edit our app info file now for the 5.0 or is it still to early for that.

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This can't be the first one, is it?

It's the first public report, but probably not the first actual WU.

The trouble is, many of the regulars here will be using an optimised application: their app_info.xml files will have disguised and hidden the changed server behaviour.

Was asking this at Beta, but I guess here is where it needs to be asked. Do we need to edit our app info file now for the 5.0 or is it still to early for that.

It's too early for that - not (quite) yet midnight here. It's going to be a long night. Trying to see who's awake at Lunatics.

Edit - that's all we need: the Lunatics server has gone off the air. Either crashed, or more likely gone out on strike in disgust. But I do know that the main optimisation programmers had both picked up the message about the new app relayed from here, and are thinking about what to do next. They do have some v5.00 optimised apps in cold storage, but not as thoroughly tested as they would like.

This can't be the first one, is it?

It's the first public report, but probably not the first actual WU.

The trouble is, many of the regulars here will be using an optimised application: their app_info.xml files will have disguised and hidden the changed server behaviour.

Was asking this at Beta, but I guess here is where it needs to be asked. Do we need to edit our app info file now for the 5.0 or is it still to early for that.

It's too early for that - not (quite) yet midnight here. It's going to be a long night. Trying to see who's awake at Lunatics.

Cool, thx for the update Richard. I'll keep tabs so I know when the green light is given. Already got my app info file ready and willing to be edited in.
[Edit]

They do have some v5.00 optimised apps in cold storage, but not as thoroughly tested as they would like.

Ahh the plot thickens. lol.

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Already got my app info file ready and willing to be edited in.

It's not as easy as that. You would need at least a new download from the (now deceased - or is it merely resting?) server. Please don't - anybody - just edit the app_info to apply the cosmetic version number to new tasks - it's a deeper change than that.

Already got my app info file ready and willing to be edited in.

It's not as easy as that. You would need at least a new download from the (now deceased - or is it merely resting?) server. Please don't - anybody - just edit the app_info to apply the cosmetic version number to new tasks - it's a deeper change than that.

Would that be the files I've gotten over at Beta to run the 5.0 on the app info file I'm running there now? I wouldn't do it untill told it was what to do, even if I do have all the files needed, am just trying to be prepared for when it does happen.

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I've already drained my cache of AP WU's in preparation,
will probably edit out AP totally until AP v5 Stock download links are posted,
Suspending Seti Main on the Laptop to get AP v5 on Beta completed, but that's
still two days work before my first batch of work there is completed!!

Claggy

Edit: my laptop C2D has only one AP v5 WU's valadated so far,
while my desktop C2D has three valadated.

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I've already drained my cache of AP WU's in preparation,
will probably edit out AP totally until AP v5 Stock download links are posted,
Suspending Seti Main on the Laptop to get AP v5 on Beta completed, but that's
still two days work before my first batch of work there is completed!!

Claggy

Yep, I suspended Einstein so l I can finish the Beta I have. Now I wish when I thought of doing this last night, I had.

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Already got my app info file ready and willing to be edited in.

It's not as easy as that. You would need at least a new download from the (now deceased - or is it merely resting?) server. Please don't - anybody - just edit the app_info to apply the cosmetic version number to new tasks - it's a deeper change than that.

Would that be the files I've gotten over at Beta to run the 5.0 on the app info file I'm running there now? I wouldn't do it untill told it was what to do, even if I do have all the files needed, am just trying to be prepared for when it does happen.

Byron, are you "Owner" at Beta? That's the only handle that's posted recently on v5.00, apart from me. Just checking if it was you I did the download links for yesterday.

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Judging solely by past practice, I think it's a reasonable bet that the v5.00 stock applications being tested at Beta, and the v5.00 stock applications sent out automatically to HarryM and - presumably - others here, will be absolutely identical. So in theory they would be the right ones to use on any WUs issued when you would expect your wingman to be also issued with a v5.00 app. Looking at the lumps and bumps on the download traffic graph, my rule of thumb would be: "Any fresh WU issued (for the first time) after 00:01 UTC Wed 19 Nov 2008 should be crunched with the new v5.00 app". But the trouble is, you will inevitably get resends of older WUs in the mix: they will have been first crunched by somebody running v4.36, and will need to be run with a v4.3x application again if they are to validate: that's my understanding, at least, and it's my understanding of Matt's quote saying that Josh and Eric wanted to drain the queues before making this release (they didn't).

Already got my app info file ready and willing to be edited in.

It's not as easy as that. You would need at least a new download from the (now deceased - or is it merely resting?) server. Please don't - anybody - just edit the app_info to apply the cosmetic version number to new tasks - it's a deeper change than that.

Would that be the files I've gotten over at Beta to run the 5.0 on the app info file I'm running there now? I wouldn't do it untill told it was what to do, even if I do have all the files needed, am just trying to be prepared for when it does happen.

Byron, are you "Owner" at Beta? That's the only handle that's posted recently on v5.00, apart from me. Just checking if it was you I did the download links for yesterday.

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Judging solely by past practice, I think it's a reasonable bet that the v5.00 stock applications being tested at Beta, and the v5.00 stock applications sent out automatically to HarryM and - presumably - others here, will be absolutely identical. So in theory they would be the right ones to use on any WUs issued when you would expect your wingman to be also issued with a v5.00 app. Looking at the lumps and bumps on the download traffic graph, my rule of thumb would be: "Any fresh WU issued (for the first time) after 00:01 UTC Wed 19 Nov 2008 should be crunched with the new v5.00 app". But the trouble is, you will inevitably get resends of older WUs in the mix: they will have been first crunched by somebody running v4.36, and will need to be run with a v4.3x application again if they are to validate: that's my understanding, at least, and it's my understanding of Matt's quote saying that Josh and Eric wanted to drain the queues before making this release (they didn't).

IC, well that really does make it almost as hard as possible to make a switch and not screw things up.
"Owner" at Beta Yeah i guess it is, don't know why it shows me under that id but I'll change it now.

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Technical News - or lack of it.

I have other PMs (outgoing) in the ether.

Well, no further news since Matt's posting 90 minutes ago, and I don't think I can prop my eyes open much longer.

See y'all in the morning.

Gecko, Jason, Raistmer: you have PMs.

Edit: Also Josef. Sorry, forgot last time. Really must go to bed now.

Well, no further news since Matt's posting 90 minutes ago, and I don't think I can prop my eyes open much longer.

See y'all in the morning.

Gecko, Jason, Raistmer: you have PMs.

Edit: Also Josef. Sorry, forgot last time. Really must go to bed now.

No problem, I was very late starting my rounds of checking what's happening and never really caught up. Thanks for getting Matt to tell us what Josh was trying to do even though he failed. I hope he learns to check his assumptions.

                                                               Joe

Hi, I've got a machine using "stock" apps crunching both a ver4 and ver5 task.

Seems a bit odd to me. I don't recall any past stock version upgrades that crunched both apps at the same time.

task 1064003521 is listed as application 5.00
task 1062098938 is listed as Application 4.36

[edit] host 58

trace of version 5 being installed:

19/11/2008 6:21:57 PM|SETI@home|Started download of astropulse_5.00_windows_intelx86.exe
19/11/2008 6:21:57 PM|SETI@home|Started download of astropulse_5.00_AUTHORS
19/11/2008 6:21:58 PM|SETI@home|Finished download of astropulse_5.00_AUTHORS
19/11/2008 6:21:58 PM|SETI@home|Started download of astropulse_5.00_COPYING
19/11/2008 6:21:59 PM|SETI@home|Finished download of astropulse_5.00_COPYING
19/11/2008 6:21:59 PM|SETI@home|Started download of astropulse_5.00_COPYRIGHT
19/11/2008 6:22:00 PM|SETI@home|Finished download of astropulse_5.00_COPYRIGHT
19/11/2008 6:22:00 PM|SETI@home|Started download of ap_graphics_5.00_windows_intelx86.exe
19/11/2008 6:22:01 PM|SETI@home|Finished download of astropulse_5.00_windows_intelx86.exe
19/11/2008 6:22:01 PM|SETI@home|Started download of ap400.jpg
19/11/2008 6:22:03 PM|SETI@home|Finished download of ap400.jpg
19/11/2008 6:22:03 PM|SETI@home|Started download of ap_03no08ac_B1_P1_00154_20081119_26214.wu
19/11/2008 6:22:04 PM|SETI@home|Finished download of ap_graphics_5.00_windows_intelx86.exe
19/11/2008 6:23:00 PM|SETI@home|Finished download of ap_03no08ac_B1_P1_00154_20081119_26214.wu
19/11/2008 6:23:01 PM|SETI@home|Starting ap_03no08ac_B1_P1_00154_20081119_26214.wu_0
19/11/2008 6:23:01 PM|SETI@home|Starting task ap_03no08ac_B1_P1_00154_20081119_26214.wu_0 using astropulse version 500

Hi, I've got a machine using "stock" apps crunching both a ver4 and ver5 task.

Seems a bit odd to me. I don't recall any past stock version upgrades that crunched both apps at the same time.

task 1064003521 is listed as application 5.00
task 1062098938 is listed as Application 4.36

Yes this is what will happen from what I understand about 5.00 being released, that it would be able to crunch both. Also from what it appears Richard was saying earlier in this thread, that could be a problem right now, which was supposed to be averted but because of server problems, may not have been.

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Hi, I've got a machine using "stock" apps crunching both a ver4 and ver5 task.

Seems a bit odd to me. I don't recall any past stock version upgrades that crunched both apps at the same time.

task 1064003521 is listed as application 5.00
task 1062098938 is listed as Application 4.36

Yes this is what will happen from what I understand about 5.00 being released, that it would be able to crunch both. Also from what it appears Richard was saying earlier in this thread, that could be a problem right now, which was supposed to be averted but because of server problems, may not have been.

I would phrase it slightly differently. Under the standard, automatic BOINC procedure, each task will be crunched, to completion, by the application that was current and appropriate when the task was assigned. So if you have an AP task buried at the bottom of a 10-day cache, it will still be crunched by v4.36: but any new tasks issued in the meantime will be marked for computation by v5.00 when the time comes. You probably haven't seen a version upgrade with both applications active at once because you weren't running tasks which took two days to complete at that time.... :-)

The trouble is, now you've got v5.00 on board, I think there's no way back: BOINC will flag every new task for computation by the most recent version, v5.00, even it it's a re-send of an old task that would be more appropriate to re-crunch with 4.36 for validation. This is because the transition from v4 to v5 has been installed in the BOINC database at Berkeley as a version upgrade, rather than an application upgrade: contrast with Einstein, where einstein_S5R3 and einstein_S5R4 are different applications, not different versions.

Here goes nothing.
I've just downloaded all the AP v5 files, produced an app_info and put them all my setiathome folder,
Started Boinc up successfully, set my preferences to Astropulse only and grabbed 3 AP WU's.
First one is running, expect it to finish in about 2 days.
Then We'll see if everything Valadates O.K.

Claggy

Edit: Two of the WU's are paired with computers doing totally stock,
and the third one is a reissue, that has already Been completed with AP 4.36!!

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