Chinese POGROM to eradicate Tibet

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Message 785065 - Posted: 21 Jul 2008, 13:36:45 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2008, 13:37:05 UTC

From the latest 'dialogue' with the Chinese officials, it looks like the Chinese cultural POGROM to blithely eradicate the Tibetan culture (and it's native people?) is to continue unabated...


So... Does anyone care?

So what?

Regards,
Martin
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Message 785082 - Posted: 21 Jul 2008, 15:18:43 UTC

I buy from this man which at least gets money to the poor in Tibet:

http://www.baronet4tibet.com/


Petitions don't get anything done and not enough people care to save the Tibetans. It's another sign when the most enlightened culture on the planet is allowed to pass into shadow.


.
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Message 785127 - Posted: 21 Jul 2008, 18:08:16 UTC

Can't the UN do anything?
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Message 785175 - Posted: 21 Jul 2008, 20:29:18 UTC

The UN told Israel to end the occupation of Palestine 40 years ago and that didn't work. They couldn't care less about Tibet.


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Message 786333 - Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 11:58:54 UTC - in response to Message 785127.  
Last modified: 24 Jul 2008, 12:00:23 UTC

Can't the UN do anything?

It's all a balance of "politics".

A population of an average sized western city spread over an area greater than the size of China itself... You do the math for density and military capability.

Perhaps the best option is to follow a part of the Tibetan philosophy itself and attempt to educate and enlighten the Chinese leadership and people.

Some brazen and very embarrassing advertising of the Chinese atrocities may well help.


The greatest question is why the Chinese are so very afraid of accepting even just a very small part of a cosmopolitan mix? The Tibetans are very few and the philosophy/religion very peaceful. Why can they not be left to continue to exist and to exist in peace?

Their continued existence in Tibet is very dependent on the awareness and the pressure that can be brought to bear from outside of Tibet... The Chinese irrational intransigence may well make for the most difficult Olympics yet. They already have achieved the first ever of the flame needing to be relit. A few times over!


It's all up to us, and the Chinese authorities.

Regards,
Martin
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Message 786393 - Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 15:16:39 UTC

this has been going some forty years now, good that we care about it now.
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Message 786397 - Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 15:38:30 UTC - in response to Message 786393.  
Last modified: 24 Jul 2008, 15:39:04 UTC

this has been going some forty years now, good that we care about it now.

Some people do care.

What is needed is more people to notice and to care and to make some sort of noise about it... Take a look to see what can be done...

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Message 786403 - Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 16:04:43 UTC - in response to Message 786397.  

Some people do care.

What is needed is more people to notice and to care and to make some sort of noise about it... Take a look to see what can be done...

You should go march around in Trafalgar Square or in Parliament Square and yell a bunch of slogans and stuff. Hold up some signs about how you're fed up and you damn hell ass aren't going to take it anymore. That's been EXTREMELY effective in recent... oh, wait, no it hasn't.
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 786410 - Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 16:24:35 UTC - in response to Message 786403.  
Last modified: 24 Jul 2008, 16:25:22 UTC

Some people do care.

What is needed is more people to notice and to care and to make some sort of noise about it... Take a look to see what can be done...

You should go march around in Trafalgar Square or in Parliament Square and yell a bunch of slogans and stuff. Hold up some signs about how you're fed up and you damn hell ass aren't going to take it anymore. That's been EXTREMELY effective in recent... oh, wait, no it hasn't.

Looks like the usual negative cynicism...

Instead, have you any positive practical ideas? Any ideas at all?

If not, you could take a look at the links already posted for inspiration.

You could even help and try making a positive noise yourself rather than always fatalistically and lazily just "passing the buck".

I guess you're happy to just roll over and die and wait for someone else or the government to bury you?...

Regards,
Martin
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Message 786428 - Posted: 24 Jul 2008, 17:08:22 UTC - in response to Message 786410.  

Some people do care.

What is needed is more people to notice and to care and to make some sort of noise about it... Take a look to see what can be done...

You should go march around in Trafalgar Square or in Parliament Square and yell a bunch of slogans and stuff. Hold up some signs about how you're fed up and you damn hell ass aren't going to take it anymore. That's been EXTREMELY effective in recent... oh, wait, no it hasn't.

Looks like the usual negative cynicism...

It's not cynicism--it's a comment on the complete and utter ineffectiveness of one particular tactic. One that convinces the participants that they've "done something" when in fact they have done nothing at all. This takes away from the effective ideas, because people have already shown that they care.

Instead, have you any positive practical ideas? Any ideas at all?

Sure. Write letters. Custom ones, written personally, and not cut and pasted from some website or emailed.

Raise money and run advertising. That's extremely expensive, but corporations do it every day--it's likely the most effective way to get people to put their money where their mouth is.

If not, you could take a look at the links already posted for inspiration.

See the above for two ideas.

You could even help and try making a positive noise yourself rather than always fatalistically and lazily just "passing the buck".

I'm not passing the buck, in fact, I did EXACTLY what you did. Posted here. Oh look, I'm raising awareness. I will not lift a finger beyond this thread, and guess what, neither will 99.999999999999999999% of the people that read it.

I guess you're happy to just roll over and die and wait for someone else or the government to bury you?...

I have no idea what this sentence means in context. There are hundreds of millions, if not billions of people all around the world that are in dire straits--mostly because people like you think it's OK to initiate force against them.
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 798525 - Posted: 15 Aug 2008, 22:43:17 UTC - in response to Message 785065.  

From the latest 'dialogue' with the Chinese officials, it looks like the Chinese cultural POGROM to blithely eradicate the Tibetan culture (and it's native people?) is to continue unabated...


So... Does anyone care?

So what?

Amidst all the pomp of the Chinese show and spectacle, and the Russian invasion into Georgia:

What of Tibet and the Tibetans?
Anything at all?

Regards,
Martin

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Message 798554 - Posted: 15 Aug 2008, 23:46:28 UTC - in response to Message 786410.  
Last modified: 16 Aug 2008, 0:23:56 UTC

I guess you're happy to just roll over and die

Yes, I am... 'cause I've been around long enough to know that nothing will ever change... ;)

(The poor can't do anything, the rich won't do anything, and the 'empty words' just irritate the heck out of me.)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 802498 - Posted: 27 Aug 2008, 12:07:02 UTC - in response to Message 785065.  

From the latest 'dialogue' with the Chinese officials, it looks like the Chinese cultural POGROM to blithely eradicate the Tibetan culture (and it's native people?) is to continue unabated...


So... Does anyone care?

So what?

The Olymics and fireworks have been and gone.

Anything heard of Tibet?

What next?...

Keep searchin',
Martin

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Message 802548 - Posted: 27 Aug 2008, 16:56:34 UTC

This makes me so sad. The way the world acts these days. When Russia did it to eastern Europe in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s it was called the Iron Curtain. But when communist China does it ... well, we get our walmart stuff from there so we better not say anything.

Whats next ... Taiwan or Mongolia?

You know I hate to say this but dealing with the China trade is one reason gas is so high these days. We all know that resources are limited on this planet. When we began moving our factories over there to get cheap labor they started using more and more fuel. Now from what I read they are trading in their bikes for cars and using more gas. So we still get the "cheap" goods in our stores, but have to pay 4 dollars a gal for gas to get to the stores. Great Idea.

Now I love free trade ... but it needs limits. Only free trade with democracies and a trade agreement with each country. And only free trade with countries with similar standards of living ... to prevent dumping of cheap or slave labor goods on our markets. Their is only about 200 countries in the world that we would want to trade with. We should have a treaty with each one, not a one size fits all agreement.

And now with Russia playing by the old rules ... I am worried that China will side with them. They way it sides with North Korea and Iran. And helps keep the violence going in Africia.

Chris.
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Message 802664 - Posted: 28 Aug 2008, 0:02:22 UTC

Chinese people under communism will seeing what anything western's act as the wrong and alway stand behind Russian,these is the most seriously problem.They are not supporting terrorism but they looking they(terrorist)as their "aliance"which anti-western.Tibetant should having their power same as the HongKong and Taiwan,they have own politics and religion believe,even their have own flag,that what i suppose to.But remember,Tibetant were also Chinese ,one of the 57etnic of China.Whe have no evidence show that "Chinese cultural(not communism) program to blithely eridicate the Tibetan culture",even western cultural more influence than this(politic).
愛﹐仁﹐忍﹐善﹐勇
Any people can sense their die just a couple of their live
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Message 802702 - Posted: 28 Aug 2008, 1:40:18 UTC
Last modified: 28 Aug 2008, 1:42:05 UTC

A fundamental problem is that the UN and international law have two premises or goals. They recognise the sovereign nature of states with their current borders and also promote the right to self-determination of peoples. These two premises are in many cases incompatible and there's no international body set up to reconcile them.

For example, in the Basque and Catalan regions of Spain a majority of the population may well wish to secede from Spain. (To my knowledge they've never been asked whether they wish to express their right to self-determination in this way.) If either or both confirmed a majority in favour of secession and then seceded unilaterally, should the UN support their right to self-determination, or should it support Spain's right to maintain its current borders?

In the case of Tibet which is an annexed state that has de facto become a minority region of China, what will happen if and when Chinese Han immigrants eventually constitute the majority of the population there? The majority of the population of Tibet might then want to remain within the Chinese state.

I don't agree with the view expressed in a previous post that a particular culture is the most enlightened on the planet. I don't think there's a monopoly of virtue or enlightenment anywhere.

But it's very sad that the current 'Might is Right' status quo continues in so many countries, with monolithic states attempting to preserve their own monolithic nature at all costs.

It's also very sad that hypocrisy currently rules triumphant, with for example many states recognising the secession of Kosovo from Serbia while apparently supporting Georgia's attempt to prevent the secession of South Ossetia, or Russia supporting the secession of South Ossetia from Georgia while refusing to allow the secession of Chechnya from Russia, or Spain objecting to Gibraltar's status as a foreign enclave while maintaining its own enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla within Morocco, or Morocco objecting to these enclaves while annexing the supposedly independent Western Sahara.

In the case of Tibet, whose native inhabitants currently have no international voice apart from that of the Dalai Lama, the very least we can do is to speak up on their behalf at every opportunity.
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Message 804627 - Posted: 3 Sep 2008, 21:20:23 UTC - in response to Message 802702.  

Nice Post.

A fundamental problem is that the UN and international law have two premises or goals. They recognise the sovereign nature of states with their current borders and also promote the right to self-determination of peoples. These two premises are in many cases incompatible and there's no international body set up to reconcile them.

For example, in the Basque and Catalan regions of Spain a majority of the population may well wish to secede from Spain. (To my knowledge they've never been asked whether they wish to express their right to self-determination in this way.) If either or both confirmed a majority in favour of secession and then seceded unilaterally, should the UN support their right to self-determination, or should it support Spain's right to maintain its current borders?

In the case of Tibet which is an annexed state that has de facto become a minority region of China, what will happen if and when Chinese Han immigrants eventually constitute the majority of the population there? The majority of the population of Tibet might then want to remain within the Chinese state.

I don't agree with the view expressed in a previous post that a particular culture is the most enlightened on the planet. I don't think there's a monopoly of virtue or enlightenment anywhere.

But it's very sad that the current 'Might is Right' status quo continues in so many countries, with monolithic states attempting to preserve their own monolithic nature at all costs.

It's also very sad that hypocrisy currently rules triumphant, with for example many states recognising the secession of Kosovo from Serbia while apparently supporting Georgia's attempt to prevent the secession of South Ossetia, or Russia supporting the secession of South Ossetia from Georgia while refusing to allow the secession of Chechnya from Russia, or Spain objecting to Gibraltar's status as a foreign enclave while maintaining its own enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla within Morocco, or Morocco objecting to these enclaves while annexing the supposedly independent Western Sahara.

In the case of Tibet, whose native inhabitants currently have no international voice apart from that of the Dalai Lama, the very least we can do is to speak up on their behalf at every opportunity.


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Message 807398 - Posted: 12 Sep 2008, 12:17:02 UTC - in response to Message 785065.  
Last modified: 12 Sep 2008, 12:17:24 UTC

From the latest 'dialogue' with the Chinese officials, it looks like the Chinese cultural POGROM to blithely eradicate the Tibetan culture (and it's native people?) is to continue unabated...


So... Does anyone care?

So what?

Looks like more of the same...

Stifling Tibetan voices

While the Olympic games reach their climax, Tibet is in lockdown, amid dire warnings of repression to come


With the very apt summary of the world politics view of Tibet given a few post before this one, so who does care?

At least our comment is 'free'.

Regards,
Martin
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Message 813686 - Posted: 1 Oct 2008, 15:46:19 UTC

"Six months after ... armed police clamp down in Lhasa
Residents unwilling to speak ..."


Lhasa, Tibet


"The monks in the monasteries are very happy and grateful with the government policies and care," said Qiang Qiong Ci Wang at the religious and ethnic affairs bureau.

Asked what happened to 30 lamas at the Jokhang temple, who made headlines around the world in March by disrupting an official tour and telling reporters they had no religious freedom, he said he had not even heard of the incident. At the time, officials said the monks would not be punished. No one has been able to speak to them since.

Security in nearby provinces, which also saw Tibetan unrest in March, is generally lighter than in Tibet. Yet many people in Qinghai remain too scared to talk. But one lama said grievances over discrimination had erupted into open clashes, raids on monasteries and mass detentions even before March.

"We Tibetans don't have freedom - we don't have the right even to express one word, ..."



So what?...

And so unnecessary...

Regards,
Martin

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Message 823343 - Posted: 26 Oct 2008, 0:43:58 UTC - in response to Message 813686.  
Last modified: 26 Oct 2008, 0:44:40 UTC

"Six months after ... armed police clamp down in Lhasa
Residents unwilling to speak ..."


Lhasa, Tibet


[...]
"We Tibetans don't have freedom - we don't have the right even to express one word, ..."



So what?...

And so unnecessary...

And more recently:

Dalai Lama 'gives up'


I guess the Chinese have the power to do as they please, including cultural POGROM.

So what?...

!
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Message boards : Politics : Chinese POGROM to eradicate Tibet


 
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