Androids - educated guesses: how far off is the technology?

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Iona
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Message 744463 - Posted: 26 Apr 2008, 13:12:58 UTC

Good question. I won't do a Bill Gates though...... 'no-one will ever need more than XXX kb of RAM'! My own feeling, is that CybOrgs will come about, long before Autonomous AI - indeed, technically, the first recipient of a 'Pace Maker' became a CybOrg. Ultimately, as a true cynic would observe, a human brain can be produced without the need for expensive equipment or skilled employees. Yes, I think that was also the 'plug' that was made for Astronauts and something that many Sci-Fi writers have suggested. Lets just hope that before 'real' CybOrgs and Autonomous AI become a real prospect, that society develops a few more ethics than it currently seems to have.



Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 744526 - Posted: 26 Apr 2008, 16:34:17 UTC - in response to Message 744334.  

Hey there Melt! You could help in the research ..... BOINC style!
http://www.intelligencerealm.com/aisystem/system.php


Oh sure. Give me a link to a project that isn't available....




. . . Project News ;)



Thanks Richard.


Just joined.


> Excellent KM, Red . . . don't forget to see Intelligence Realms: Frequently Asked Questions

for example:



Why isn't this project entirely public?


The software development portion of the project can probably be done almost in its entirety with the help of the public at large.


The neuroscience portion can not.


We also need to continue the research and involve other researchers and research groups that can contribute to our project and its final goal.

That requires funding and commercialization is the only acceptable way for us to do that.





neXt . . .





BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .
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Profile Graeme Stretton
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Message 745012 - Posted: 27 Apr 2008, 14:06:35 UTC - in response to Message 744463.  

Good question. I won't do a Bill Gates though...... 'no-one will ever need more than XXX kb of RAM'! My own feeling, is that CybOrgs will come about, long before Autonomous AI - indeed, technically, the first recipient of a 'Pace Maker' became a CybOrg. Ultimately, as a true cynic would observe, a human brain can be produced without the need for expensive equipment or skilled employees. Yes, I think that was also the 'plug' that was made for Astronauts and something that many Sci-Fi writers have suggested. Lets just hope that before 'real' CybOrgs and Autonomous AI become a real prospect, that society develops a few more ethics than it currently seems to have.




I once had ethics but had to dispose of them due to the excessive tax rate.

Qunpu' lo'taHmo' jIH yItamQo'
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Profile William Rothamel
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Message 745474 - Posted: 28 Apr 2008, 18:24:13 UTC

It will be many dozens of generations until we even get close to an android. There are right now:

A computer --probably your very good friend right now
Specific robots for intricate assembly
Machines that can improve their performance and thereby "learn"
There are limited examples of self reproducing automata

All of these will advance and be programmed to be more intelligent in their behavior.

Perhaps there will be human -like robots that can do specific tasks--right now there are robotic lawn mowers and vacuum cleaners.

I worked in Artificial Intelligence when I was in the Army Labs 45 years ago. Not much has come to pass in the interim despite all the wild and enthusiastic predictions. Then as now machines that were intelligent were following digital logic and signal processing techniques. Threshold logic decomposed into equivalent digital logic implementations.

It is said that the human brain contains at least 10**10 to 10 **12 neurons, each of which has many thousands of connections. It is probably similar to a spatial video wave processor. It would be hard to simulate even if we could get inside and figure out the mapping.

It's time to drag out all the old thinking and arguments of "Can machines think"
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Profile William Rothamel
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Message 746231 - Posted: 30 Apr 2008, 20:09:40 UTC
Last modified: 30 Apr 2008, 20:17:41 UTC

If you run the clock ahead 2000 years, and we are still here; there will be some interesting things happening on this topic. We are already altering bio-related things--genes, drugs, pig's hearts, cloning organs . We are implanting titanium and teflon as bones and joints. We are implanting artificial corneas and making good progress on artificial limbs. So there could be a bionic human that has a body that simply won't wear out.

What about the brain--can we ever transfer the essence of a human into a solid state structure. One or two more iterations on size reduction for processors and we we be on our way possibly of approaching the computing power and size of a brain. This will be a tough one to define even. The brain's circuits are slow and imprecise --quite opposed to a digital computer. Will we find structures in the brain to define memory, visual processing, innate drives and so on. We would need a virulent Operating System and an initial store of data.

Will the brain suggest computing architectures that we haven't yet found. What would happen if we could copy the neuronal connections and abundance in silicon, only operating a billion times faster.

All of this will be a slow evolution --but given a few thousand years--ethics and morals will take on new dimensions. Will future generations allow people to live for, say, 200 years --what about crowding ? Will life be limited to some arbitrary number , say, 85 years with the promise that all of them will be years of sanity and health.

Soooo--we may wind up being the androids ourselves with repairable parts and even a new download if we should have our brain (processors) destroyed. Far fetched today but what about a few millenia from now. Remember, modern computers really got going only in the 60's or so. They have come a long way in only 50 years.

DADDIO
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Message 746244 - Posted: 30 Apr 2008, 20:27:48 UTC - in response to Message 746231.  

Will life be limited to some arbitrary number , say, 85 years

Logan didn't seem to like that idea very much... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Profile William Rothamel
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Message 746311 - Posted: 30 Apr 2008, 23:24:04 UTC - in response to Message 746244.  

Will life be limited to some arbitrary number , say, 85 years

Logan didn't seem to like that idea very much... ;)


Sort of like Blade Runner and Soylent green and Dr Kervorkian and de facto population limits imposed by the Chinese through effectively allowing only one offspring per couple.

May be getting off topic here--

Bill
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Profile MeltWreckage
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Message 746493 - Posted: 1 May 2008, 11:59:24 UTC - in response to Message 746231.  

hello Pawly, way up the list there ^^ hehe

how's tricks?


and ah, Bill! this is very interesting:

What about the brain--can we ever transfer the essence of a human into a solid state structure.


I find this concept to be extremely fascinating. Physical brain transfer - in my mind, it seems like an extremely logical (albeit supremely complex/advanced) procedure. Assuming the body is merely a vehicle for transportation of the brain (I believe this) - is it not fair to assume that we could create an artificial (ideally, mobile) vessel in which the brain could be housed? What an intriguing concept!

It reminds me of the Theseus' paradox - in this particular context: how many human body parts/organs can we replace before the result of these alterations become its defining trait? - creating an inherently "different" organism.

Personally, I feel that our brains contain "us". However, how will our behavior (and by extention, our personalities) change as a result of having a drastically different body/vehicle?

I suppose it's no different from being placed in an unfamiliar environment. Surely we'd "act" differently if we were confined to an Austrian basement, as opposed to a more desirable location. The environment, despite its power to influence us, is by no means inherently connected to us.


Am I just rambling, or does that make sense? I think I may be rambling - I didn't get much sleep last night... hehe



Soooo--we may wind up being the androids ourselves with repairable parts and even a new download if we should have our brain (processors) destroyed. Far fetched today but what about a few millenia from now.


I absolutely agree - as has been mentioned earlier, it's all a matter of degree. In the distant future, body replacement / enhancement will likely become a rather common/mundane process. Once we've customized our "bodies" - why not customize the workings of the brain? Meditation and therapy are means by which we customize (manipulate) our own behavior / psychology - why not create technology to achieve the same results?



-m


that would have worked if you hadn't stopped me
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Profile MzSnowleopard
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Message 748226 - Posted: 4 May 2008, 21:02:49 UTC

Well- for £2,000.00 you can have this R2D2 Projector with a Millenium Falcon remote control...

The BIG R2D2

OR

$119.95 you can have this voice activated R2D2

Since he plays tag- should be good for chasing the cats around.






He who trims himself to suit others soon whittles himself away. - Raymond Hull

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Message boards : Cafe SETI : Androids - educated guesses: how far off is the technology?


 
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