Lost about 400 today. Now down to 12,150, and startded with 12,656

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

Lost 100 since last night.

[edit] gained 2 in the last 10 minutes?

15 more gone... drut

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change

I've lost another 25 or so.

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Calm Chaos Forum...Join Calm Chaos Now

I've lost 10 more.

So, this should be 3398 NOT 3388.

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos

No bugs in the anthill...

The bug seems to be only affecting mammals. :)

Maybe I spoke too soon... ;)

(Methinks my immune system is breaking down)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

No bugs in the anthill...

The bug seems to be only affecting mammals. :)

Maybe I spoke too soon... ;)

(Methinks my immune system is breaking down)

nooooo!

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change

Lost another 70 overnight. Now down to 12,080

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

I've lost nearly 400 posts since Es alrerted us to this possible forum bug, just 24 hours ago. I wonder who will be the first to record a minus post count?

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flaming balloons

You don't get minus post counts, you get a knock on the door from the baliffs.

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You don't get minus post counts, you get a knock on the door from the baliffs.

Oh, I already get those knocks. And I keep telling them, "B b b b but my post count is still over 7000!" ;)

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flaming balloons

Good morning everyone!

I said I was leaving the thread, but I just got an email from Misfit in which he tells me that large threads are being deleted at the orders of the admins, including his BOTD thread, which has also been deleted. I believe him, and therefore I appologize for hinting that this may have been an action on his own initiative.

I appologize, Misfit!



Now, as for deleting long and popular threads for the reason: "Clearing space in database", here's what I have to say to Dr. David Anderson and his project administrators:


FIX THE DATABASE INSTEAD OF OBLITERATING OUR MANY HOURS OF EFFORT!!!


On the one hand, Project Seti needs contributors of effort. On the other, you delete our efforts. How do you expect us to continue our efforts with such behaviour?

If the project needs a professional Systems Administrator, get one. If the project needs a professional Data Base Administrator, get one. If the project needs a professional Physical Data Base Administrator, get one.


That's your watch, your lookout, and your responsibility.


You can't expect us volunteers and providers of content to work free for this project if you won't commit to our efforts, and I mean fully commit. There's no point in just stringing people along. That just doesn't cut it anymore.

Take heed, Dr. Anderson. How will you feel if Project Seti is no more?


Respect your volunteers.


Thank you.

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:D

Beets..unless Misfit has admin powers, simply hiding the threads won't remove them from the database...so he won't have been the one doing any removing.

..and we would have got notices anyway.

and most of those threads were spam anyway and so it doesn't really matter if they are removed does it?

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Reality Internet Personality

:D

Beets..unless Misfit has admin powers, simply hiding the threads won't remove them from the database...so he won't have been the one doing any removing.

..and we would have got notices anyway.

and most of those threads were spam anyway and so it doesn't really matter if they are removed does it?

As you pointed out Es, this thread isn't about moderators.

And as to whether long threads that we spent many hours working on, like my "Beethoven's" threads (Beethoven's VIII just deleted), your "Seti Science Fiction" thread, our work as content providers...yes, it DOES matter.


I stand by what I've said.

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As you pointed out Es, this thread isn't about moderators.

Quite..hence my comment...that i do not believe that the moderators (am i allowed to say that?) are deleting posts (am i allowed to say that?)

And as to whether long threads that we spent many hours working on, like my "Beethoven's" threads (Beethoven's VIII just deleted), your "Seti Science Fiction" thread, our work as content providers...yes, it DOES matter.


I stand by what I've said.

I am sorry you are upset about it...I also do not believe that this thread removal pogrom has anything do do with the strange case of the dropping post count, unless it is the cure? ..and it clearly is not aimed at any individual personally.

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Reality Internet Personality

As you pointed out Es, this thread isn't about moderators.

Quite..hence my comment...that i do not believe that the moderators (am i allowed to say that?) are deleting posts (am i allowed to say that?)

And as to whether long threads that we spent many hours working on, like my "Beethoven's" threads (Beethoven's VIII just deleted), your "Seti Science Fiction" thread, our work as content providers...yes, it DOES matter.


I stand by what I've said.

I am sorry you are upset about it...I also do not believe that this thread removal pogrom has anything do do wit"Clearing space in database."h the strange case of the dropping post count, unless it is the cure? ..and it clearly is not aimed at any individual personally.

Es, :]]

The reason given for my thread's removal is, "Clearing space in database." Hence my open letter to Dr. David Anderson and the project administrators.

The removal of many hours of work by volunteers is a serious mistake. It's no "cure" at all; at best it is a destructive attempt at patchwork.

I repeat what I have said to them: "Respect for your volunteers."

I did not write it merely because I'm upset. I've done it to help Dr. Anderson and the project's science administrators. Being a friend to the project means speaking up when that is called for.

You know me Es, "Always in the cause of right". :]]

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The observation that hiding a row does not remove it is correct.

Removing a row, a post, a series of rows, a thread, will clear space ...

Once a row is deleted, it is gone, and can only be recovered from a backup set. depending on the tool this row by row recovery can be difficult.

I can also point out that the loss of data can be for other causes ... for instance, instead of synchronizing the master with the mirror, the mirror is used as the master ... then all the content that is in the mirror is used as the template and rows that did not exist in the mirror can be removed from the master. :)

Again, here, there is a policy issue at stake, do the projects have an obligation to the participants? Or not?

If they do, then, should there be a need to clear space, to *MY* mind the participant that originated the thread should be given the opportunity to "vet" the need for deletion.

This would require a new page perhaps on the account set where the threads that the originator started could be grouped for examination and the participant given the opportunity to review and mark for deletion.

As Beethoven has pointed out, though YOU may not have an emotional commitment to a thread, or even interest in it, it *IS* something that can be, as credit is, important to the participant.

There are some threads that I know I started that I would hate to see lost, and a lot of posts I made in the past likewise ... but there *IS* a lot of junk in the database. The question, as always, is who decides? The project only as a diktat, or, in collaboration with the community that I still seem to be alone (or nearly alone) in pointing out we belong to ...

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Thanks very much for posting on this, Paul.


Yes, I understand the difference between hiding and deleting. But I had it from an independent source that some of my old threads were going into the "bit bucket". That means deleting to me. Then I have Misfit's courtesy email letter followed by his hide notice for "Beethoven's VIII". (Don't assume, please, that the independent source is Misfit; that's not what I said.)

So it appears to me that "hiding" a long thread is a preliminary step to deleting it. And the stated cause is "Clearing space in database".

It's an open secret that there are difficulties with the project's database. So I still say,

"Fix the problem, not the symptom."


I'll go over your post again to review some of the things you said. I've no doubt that the database can and should be freed up to some extent. But taking down long threads that may contain important or popular content is not the right way to go about it. The threads became long for a reason, after all. The only long threads that I can think of (off the top of my head) that wouldn't harm the content provider are the game threads like TLPTP, in which are made up of numberous providers of individual pieces of content, admittedly for fun at the time only.


As to your observation that: "there is a policy issue at stake, do the projects have an obligation to the participants? Or not?":

As a practical matter, the answer to that issue has to be Yes. If you expect extended contributions from volunteers, you need to get and maintain their confidence that such efforts will be supported and respected. Otherwise, say good-bye to longer, more sustained efforts on this project.

That's just simple human nature.

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Just want to chime in on this......
And by all means.....if I am incorrect on anything, please tell me.

As far as I understand.....moderation of any posts or threads in the forums does not 'delete' them from the servers...rather they are just hidden from public view. That is why they can be 'unhidden' later if it is justifiable to do so...
I do not think the mod staff has the ability to actually 'delete' anything from the servers.....so I'm not sure that 'clearing space in database' is a valid argument.
Now the admins of course, probably do have that ability. But I have not yet seen any announcement of any need to free up database space by deleting any forum content.
Nor have I seen any input from Matt or Eric yet on the subject of diminishing post counts...
There have been some troubling database difficulties that Matt and Eric have been wrestling with as of late, and I am hoping at this point that some of the things we are seeing here on the forums may be an artifact of those troubles......

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

A point of interest; the affliction here is not being reflected in SETI Beta.

My Beta account now has 314 Posts and none lost. Only here at SETI Main are we losing posts.

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TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
Join Calm Chaos