. . . the Politics of Rights regarding Participation

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Profile thorin belvrog
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Message 734078 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 8:05:38 UTC - in response to Message 734068.  

... But it would really be great if the FAQ or the wiki could be translated into each of the languages used by the participants as well.

BOINC FAQ in German

:O I've never seen this page before.
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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 734085 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 8:49:42 UTC - in response to Message 734068.  
Last modified: 4 Apr 2008, 8:52:26 UTC

... But it would really be great if the FAQ or the wiki could be translated into each of the languages used by the participants as well.

BOINC FAQ in German

THis is a case where the German Language FAQ has information that I never got into the UBW ... though there is a table of error codes, they managed to provide more information than I was able to garner. So this is a case where "reverse stealing" would be helpful ... translating the German back into English :)

Again, this is an example of where, because we could not all pull together, there is a resource that is known to only a few, and therefore not available to all ... the additional explanations are, in effect, denied the English speakers ... the reverse of the norm ... ah well ...

The horse is down, I should stop beating it ...
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Profile John Neale
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Message 734179 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 14:01:46 UTC - in response to Message 734085.  

Again, this is an example of where, because we could not all pull together, there is a resource that is known to only a few, and therefore not available to all ... the additional explanations are, in effect, denied the English speakers ... the reverse of the norm ... ah well ...


From what I can see, not quite true. There's an English version and a Dutch version on the same site.

(And the English version seems to be the most extensive.)

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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 734191 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 14:45:32 UTC


. . . hereby Requesting an Update for the Person to Contact List for the Following:

ABC@Home:
BRaTS@Home:
ClimatePrediction:
Einstein@Home:
LHC@Home:
Malaria@Home:
PrimeGrid:
Rosetta@Home:
SETI@Home:
SIMAP:
Sztaki:
TSP:
WCG:

please don't list the Contacts name here - PM me or Paul D. Buck

Thank You Kindly for All Assistance that You May Provide . . .


BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .
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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 734195 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 14:55:02 UTC - in response to Message 734191.  


. . . hereby Requesting an Update for the Person to Contact List for the Following:

ABC@Home:
BRaTS@Home:
ClimatePrediction:
Einstein@Home:
LHC@Home:
Malaria@Home:
PrimeGrid:
Rosetta@Home:
SETI@Home:
SIMAP:
Sztaki:
TSP:
WCG:

please don't list the Contacts name here - PM me or Paul D. Buck

Thank You Kindly for All Assistance that You May Provide . . .

WHat he means is, valid e-mail addresses for the/head honcho or the guy who knows who the head honcho is ...

And I have:

ABC@Home:
Einstein@Home:
PrimeGrid:
Rosetta@Home:
SETI@Home:
TSP:

Or at least I have the contact point advertised on the site ...

Making the list:

BRaTS@Home:
ClimatePrediction:
LHC@Home:
Malaria@Home:
SIMAP:
Sztaki:
WCG:


And of those that remember my home e-mail that works too ...
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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 734209 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 15:20:32 UTC


. . . oopS - right Paul - Thanks for the Correct Wording


BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .
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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 734259 - Posted: 4 Apr 2008, 16:56:57 UTC - in response to Message 734209.  

. . . oopS - right Paul - Thanks for the Correct Wording

I might be feeling like I am drunk again ... and staggering around the house again, but I am not THAT drunk ...

And for lurkers out of the historical loop, no I don't drink ...
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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 734631 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 11:37:37 UTC - in response to Message 734195.  


. . . to repeat: valid e-mail addresses for the following Projects:

from Paul -

<snip>


WHat he means is, valid e-mail addresses for the/head honcho or the guy who knows who the head honcho is ...

And I have:

ABC@Home:
Einstein@Home:
PrimeGrid:
Rosetta@Home:
SETI@Home:
TSP:

Or at least I have the contact point advertised on the site ...

Making the list:

BRaTS@Home:
ClimatePrediction:
LHC@Home:
Malaria@Home:
SIMAP:
Sztaki:
WCG:


And of those that remember my home e-mail that works too ...



Thank You Sincerely . . .


BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .
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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 734849 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 17:04:41 UTC
Last modified: 5 Apr 2008, 17:09:59 UTC

. . . here i am wondering whether (OR not) THESE TWO Links could be helpful -
for Those that don't know & want to Assist >


To-do list for Wikipedia: WikiProject Lists:

and Wikipedia: To-do list . . .

EDIT: Wikipedia:User page


. . . regarding THAT which is discussed here - in this Thread - 'To Post OR Not To Post' - what say All ???
BOINC Wiki . . .

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Profile Dr. C.E.T.I.
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Message 734868 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 18:14:18 UTC


. . . Interesting:

Wikipedia: Policies & Guidelines


This policy has often been used a club by clever trolls who drive off productive contributors with incessantly polite trolling. I would like to make an essential change. We need to distinguish between two broad classes of incivility:

1. Crudeness, bluntness, loutishness, and unintentionally inappropriate remarks. These can be due to cultural differences, personal style, or a lack of social skills. The incivility needs to be identified, and the user should be counseled, "You may not mean it, but your remarks are bothersome. Could you please be more thoughtful."

2. Remarks, even those seeming to be polite, which are intended to drive off productive contributors through overt or subtle harassment. When editors use words as weapons, they must be dealt with firmly, including the use of blocks for repeated incidents.





BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .
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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 734870 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 18:22:53 UTC - in response to Message 734849.  

. . . here i am wondering whether (OR not) THESE TWO Links could be helpful -
for Those that don't know & want to Assist >


To-do list for Wikipedia: WikiProject Lists:

and Wikipedia: To-do list . . .

EDIT: Wikipedia:User page


. . . regarding THAT which is discussed here - in this Thread - 'To Post OR Not To Post' - what say All ???

It seems like a good mechanism to me ...

But the first question still has not been answered.

Are we, as a community, going to coalesce around a single repository? Or, are we as a community going to insist that being a bunch of lone writers with our work scattered about the landscape the way we want to conduct business?

Just as a for-instance we have the FAQ in three languages, English, Dutch and German in three sites ... I don't know if this is (these are) the best FAQ in the world or not. All I know is that they do not address two fundamental problems. A person has to find them first, and second, there are at least two major western languages missing ... French and Spanish.

Second, if we are to go in mutli-lingual, I never did figure out the mechanism to do that in the UBW ...

More sadly, several of the "How-To" pages I wrote seem to now be directed to a definition. I don't know if that is the result of a database corruption or deliberate edit or malicious intent.

So we are back to the point I tried to make 300 posts ago (well, it seems that way), can we agree on one repository?

Can we even track down the people that are attempting to document?
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Nicolas
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Message 734954 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 20:16:57 UTC - in response to Message 734870.  

More sadly, several of the "How-To" pages I wrote seem to now be directed to a definition. I don't know if that is the result of a database corruption or deliberate edit or malicious intent.

Which pages exactly? I don't see anything wrong.

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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 734968 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 20:27:07 UTC - in response to Message 734954.  

More sadly, several of the "How-To" pages I wrote seem to now be directed to a definition. I don't know if that is the result of a database corruption or deliberate edit or malicious intent.

Which pages exactly? I don't see anything wrong.

I wrote a "How-To" on making the SAH screen saver currently implemented look as much like the SAH CLassic as possible through custom settings. That and all the other screen saver How-Tos all goto the definition of a screen saver.

I don't know about you, but, that to me seems to be a problem.

Goto categorys on the main page, on the categories page, select how-to, then select the screen-saver ones ... you get a definition instead ...

I did not check other things, I get depressed too easily ... it may be that someone made the original pages into "redirects" and it has been so long I forget how to "unscrew" a redirect to so you can find the original page to see who made the edit from content page to a redirect page.
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Message 734988 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 20:49:04 UTC - in response to Message 734968.  

More sadly, several of the "How-To" pages I wrote seem to now be directed to a definition. I don't know if that is the result of a database corruption or deliberate edit or malicious intent.

Which pages exactly? I don't see anything wrong.

I wrote a "How-To" on making the SAH screen saver currently implemented look as much like the SAH CLassic as possible through custom settings. That and all the other screen saver How-Tos all goto the definition of a screen saver.

I don't know about you, but, that to me seems to be a problem.

Goto categorys on the main page, on the categories page, select how-to, then select the screen-saver ones ... you get a definition instead ...

Well, I hadn't seen those pages before. (I think I wasn't even a BOINC user back when you created the wiki).

Looks like a technical problem related to the & symbol on the page name. I'll see if it can be fixed / worked around...

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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 735026 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 22:03:49 UTC - in response to Message 734988.  

Well, I hadn't seen those pages before. (I think I wasn't even a BOINC user back when you created the wiki).

Looks like a technical problem related to the & symbol on the page name. I'll see if it can be fixed / worked around...

Well, the pages worked before ... sigh ...

The first question in my mind is if the original pages are still there ... or not ...
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Message 735057 - Posted: 5 Apr 2008, 22:20:50 UTC - in response to Message 735026.  
Last modified: 5 Apr 2008, 22:44:30 UTC

The first question in my mind is if the original pages are still there ... or not ...

They are. I just renamed the E@H one to have 'and' instead of '&' and it works now. But the renaming itself gets tricky due to the ampersand, so it took me a while (plus I was doing other things).

EDIT: apparently ampersands in page names should work, but something on the server is misconfigured. I'll email Chris, or ask Rytis tomorrow.

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Message 735143 - Posted: 6 Apr 2008, 0:21:26 UTC
Last modified: 6 Apr 2008, 0:22:48 UTC

If you guys can get a good Charter of Rights going that's acceptable to several Boinc projects, then I am then willing to go out and try to get real life Justices, Judges and Justices of the Peace..the Real Deal in Real Life..to act as arbitrators between disputing parties.

Think of it: real Judges, men of real integrity, to dispense real justice...no amateurs.

I think I could manage to bring some on board as volunteers to aid in developing distributed computing. I think I could get that ball rolling. It's doable.
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Message 735170 - Posted: 6 Apr 2008, 1:25:05 UTC - in response to Message 735143.  

If you guys can get a good Charter of Rights going that's acceptable to several Boinc projects, then I am then willing to go out and try to get real life Justices, Judges and Justices of the Peace..the Real Deal in Real Life..to act as arbitrators between disputing parties.

Think of it: real Judges, men of real integrity, to dispense real justice...no amateurs.

I think I could manage to bring some on board as volunteers to aid in developing distributed computing. I think I could get that ball rolling. It's doable.

You as others, like Dr. Whatsisname are running ahead of your feet ...

I have yet to see two necessary ingredients.

1) Like any addict, they first have to recognize that they have a problem. My feel is that that recognition is not widespread. Not sure how to guage it accurately. Though the BOINC Survey pointed to earlier sure proves it to me ...

2) An agreement to work for the good of the project.

I see many declarations on how passionate they are for the project. But how few actually even TRY to do something.

As an example,as much as I may disagree with the moderation system, those that perform that task are in the "no win scenario".

And there are whole classes of problems we cannot even speak about. Much less debate the pros and cons of options.

Worse, there seems to be an ethic that has arisen that glorifies bad behavior as if it were something to be proud of.
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Message 735195 - Posted: 6 Apr 2008, 2:06:43 UTC
Last modified: 6 Apr 2008, 2:07:15 UTC

Ya know..I keep seeing people refer to " bugs " in the BOINC system, and I have to wonder what the heck they are talking about.

Supposedly, these " bugs " would drive potential participants away, but if you think about it, the vast majority of new users would be the " set it and forget it " type of user.

For those users, other than the trouble with having to enter urls to attach to projects, there really are no problems that I can see. If you do exactly what BOINC was created to do ( download/attach/run/not piss around with it ) then it DOES exactly what it was created to do.

Methinks that there are far too many people out there who want to tweak things to do exactly what they THINK it should do, rather than what it was designed to do.

In the process, the people wanting to do the tweaks are telling everyone who doesn't try to tweak the system ( like me ) that there are major problems.

Hate to break it to you, but there simply aren't major problems. It does exactly what it was advertised to do. I have never had any problems with BOINC. Know why?? Because I don't mess with it. I just let it run.
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Message 735254 - Posted: 6 Apr 2008, 5:30:48 UTC - in response to Message 735170.  
Last modified: 6 Apr 2008, 5:35:50 UTC

If you guys can get a good Charter of Rights going that's acceptable to several Boinc projects, then I am then willing to go out and try to get real life Justices, Judges and Justices of the Peace..the Real Deal in Real Life..to act as arbitrators between disputing parties.

Think of it: real Judges, men of real integrity, to dispense real justice...no amateurs.

I think I could manage to bring some on board as volunteers to aid in developing distributed computing. I think I could get that ball rolling. It's doable.

You as others, like Dr. Whatsisname are running ahead of your feet ...

...



"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp..or what's a heaven for?" as Robert Browning said.

I thought I was making an "If-Then" statement. I didn't say I'd do it, I said "If". If enough people indicate what they could contribute, and under what conditions, then something of a workable plan may begin to take shape. I'm far from sure on that, but I thought it worth try.

About:


And there are whole classes of problems we cannot even speak about. Much less debate the pros and cons of options.


Yes, we presently post on the forums under stringent rules and strict enforcement of them. But that need not be forever. We are evolving a system of interaction. The moderators were viewed as necessary to keep the peace. And we have been 'forced' into a somewhat joyless civility. Those who post see that communication is possible, even with those we may even dislike, in a civil manner.

On the other hand, those that refuse to stop fighting are not removed from the forums. At most, they are "banned" for a short while.

I personally liked the days of self-moderation better. Our forums were livier back then.

But maybe self-moderation should be coupled with a system of Ostracism, in the ancient Greek manner. That was a yearly democratic process: the name of the candidates were scrated onto shards of clay and put into a large pot. The elected member would be ostracised. Maybe instead of patrolling posts, the moderators should be keeping track of the number of complaints made against a member. Periodically, the Administrator would take the highest name on the list and create an anonomous poll thread [we'd need to code that] allowing the people to vote "Aye" or "Nay" on that person being ostracised. Or we could simply follow the Greek method.

Yes, I know that people come back under new identities, but they can be identified and removed under their new alias. Other places have managed to do that.

So that's ostracism as another solution to use in conjunction with self-moderation. I'm sure there are others.



P.S. Please excuse my "If-Then" coding errors. I'm new to coding. :]]
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