when is the TRUTH gonna be known....

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Profile thorin belvrog
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Message 737062 - Posted: 10 Apr 2008, 21:25:06 UTC - in response to Message 737001.  

BrainSmashR wrote:
As this illustration clearly shows, 60% of our budget is spent on various forms of welfare while only 20% of our budget is spent on the military...but hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your propaganda.


Hm... though it reads like some republican excuse, let me quote one sentence, which seems to contradict to BS's statement
In 2006, military spending (including the war in Iraq) totaled $520 billion, slightly less than Social Security
(link provided by me)
Only ONE year in that totally unnecessary war did cost "slightly less than" the already quite low financial support for all needy people in the States altogether? Imagine what could have done with this money if it were poured out into social welfare instead of raising the profits of the weapon producing industries which earn their billions by producing more costs for funerals, for medical treatments, for disability payments which then also have to be paid by Social Security!


Social Security is but one tiny aspect of the problem known collectively as "welfare" (a one way exchange of goods and services).

As I indicated earlier, due to your bias, you seek out ONLY the information which supports your opinion, thus you "apparently" missed the end of the second paragraph. Let me take this opportunity to rectify the situation:

In fiscal 2006, the federal government spent almost $2.7 trillion. Social Security ($544 billion), Medicare ($374 billion) and Medicaid ($181 billion) dominated. There was $199 billion more for payments to the poor, including the earned-income tax credit and food stamps, among others.

My statement remains: Imagine what could have done with this money if it were poured out into social welfare instead of raising the profits of the weapon producing industries which earn their billions by producing more costs for funerals, for medical treatments, for disability payments which then also have to be paid by Social Security!
Supporting a few already big companies to make them richer by starting an absolutely unnecessary war instead of reducing the poverty of the many needy people and raising the overall wealth by that is morally, politically, and economically just wrong.
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Message 737244 - Posted: 11 Apr 2008, 5:57:57 UTC

You may not realise it but you are a very sad, unhappy man. Whether you want it or not I shall pray for you and for your soul. I suspect you may have had a very unhappy childhood or some other bad physical or psychological event or events that have made you this way and counselling could well help. I mean this sincerely and not as some sort of insult.


Isn't there ever a case anymore of someone just being an a**hole??? Why does everything have to stem from some terribly traumatic childhood experience???

Some people are just A**HOLES!!! Period.

* BSR...I was not referring to you in particular on this one...I am just tired of people trying to lay their problems off on someone else. " I didn't mean it....but Mommy spanked me too much when I was little ". What a load of crap *
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Message 737300 - Posted: 11 Apr 2008, 10:48:09 UTC - in response to Message 737062.  

My statement remains: Imagine what could have done with this money if it were poured out into social welfare instead of raising the profits of the weapon producing industries which earn their billions by producing more costs for funerals, for medical treatments, for disability payments which then also have to be paid by Social Security!
Supporting a few already big companies to make them richer by starting an absolutely unnecessary war instead of reducing the poverty of the many needy people and raising the overall wealth by that is morally, politically, and economically just wrong.


We already have a method for ending poverty in this country...they're called JOBS.

In fact, they're SOOOO effective at ending poverty, we now have a problem with illegal immigrants from Mexico. Of the 7 million illegal immigrants in this country, 70% are Mexican


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Message 737303 - Posted: 11 Apr 2008, 10:51:15 UTC - in response to Message 737244.  

You may not realise it but you are a very sad, unhappy man. Whether you want it or not I shall pray for you and for your soul. I suspect you may have had a very unhappy childhood or some other bad physical or psychological event or events that have made you this way and counselling could well help. I mean this sincerely and not as some sort of insult.


Isn't there ever a case anymore of someone just being an a**hole??? Why does everything have to stem from some terribly traumatic childhood experience???

Some people are just A**HOLES!!! Period.

* BSR...I was not referring to you in particular on this one...I am just tired of people trying to lay their problems off on someone else. " I didn't mean it....but Mommy spanked me too much when I was little ". What a load of crap *


heh...while I would have preferred you use another adjective, I understand what you mean perfectly....I live in the Bible belt


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Message 737559 - Posted: 12 Apr 2008, 0:15:54 UTC - in response to Message 737303.  

I live in the Bible belt

And you're still alive and kicking... Imagine THAT! ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 737692 - Posted: 12 Apr 2008, 6:14:19 UTC - in response to Message 737303.  

You may not realise it but you are a very sad, unhappy man. Whether you want it or not I shall pray for you and for your soul. I suspect you may have had a very unhappy childhood or some other bad physical or psychological event or events that have made you this way and counselling could well help. I mean this sincerely and not as some sort of insult.


Isn't there ever a case anymore of someone just being an a**hole??? Why does everything have to stem from some terribly traumatic childhood experience???

Some people are just A**HOLES!!! Period.

* BSR...I was not referring to you in particular on this one...I am just tired of people trying to lay their problems off on someone else. " I didn't mean it....but Mommy spanked me too much when I was little ". What a load of crap *


heh...while I would have preferred you use another adjective, I understand what you mean perfectly....I live in the Bible belt


Sorry dude. Like I said....I wasn't referring directly to you...lol
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Message 738880 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 10:21:59 UTC - in response to Message 736997.  

Actually Santa Anna attacked the Alamo with more than 6000 troops in 1836. According to my math, that's considerably less than 200 years ago. As I stated before, you should pick up a history book.


Err, correct me someone if I'm wrong, but wasn't Texas actually a Mexican territory at the time? Whilst many citizens wished to join the USA, the outcome of that war was actually a US CONQUEST of Mexican territory and not a Mexican invasion of the USA. History has a knack of coming up with awkward facts when ultra-nationalists only pick bits they like.

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Message 738883 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 10:25:58 UTC - in response to Message 737004.  

Neither laughing in the face of zealots like you, nor placing the interests of my country above all others, by no stretch of the imagination, means I am unaware of the plights faced by others.

I do find it interesting, that as a non-christian population, that you don't deem their situation to be their own fault caused by their worship of "false idols"....or do you?


A zealot? Moi? Compared with you? Good grief!
I think people should be entitled to believe what they believe and not have belief hammered into them, be it religion, politics, economics or any other belief system.
People have a right to defend themselves, not to attack others.

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Message 738905 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 11:52:24 UTC - in response to Message 738880.  
Last modified: 14 Apr 2008, 11:59:46 UTC

Actually Santa Anna attacked the Alamo with more than 6000 troops in 1836. According to my math, that's considerably less than 200 years ago. As I stated before, you should pick up a history book.


Err, correct me someone if I'm wrong, but wasn't Texas actually a Mexican territory at the time? Whilst many citizens wished to join the USA, the outcome of that war was actually a US CONQUEST of Mexican territory and not a Mexican invasion of the USA. History has a knack of coming up with awkward facts when ultra-nationalists only pick bits they like.


"Technically" speaking, you are correct. The Alamo fell about one month prior to Texas declaring it's Independence from Mexico. However, utilizing that type of logic, the United States didn't declare it's independence until 1776. Now you subtract the 250 years used in the initial example, and you get 1758. "Technically" the United States didn't exist (just like the state of Texas didn't exist) and therefore could not have been occupied by foreign invaders at that time either. That's not an "awkward" history fact, that's data manipulation. For future purposes, I believe in manifest destiny...Texas was always Texas.

A zealot? Moi? Compared with you? Good grief!
I think people should be entitled to believe what they believe and not have belief hammered into them, be it religion, politics, economics or any other belief system.
People have a right to defend themselves, not to attack others.


So when you're going to "pray for my soul"...that's "defending yourself" and not trying to "hammer your beliefs" into me.

Another example of the logic that makes me proud of separation of church and state.


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Message 738928 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 13:25:34 UTC - in response to Message 738905.  

So when you're going to "pray for my soul"...that's "defending yourself" and not trying to "hammer your beliefs" into me.

Another example of the logic that makes me proud of separation of church and state.


What I believe is my business. What you believe is yours. If I think you are in need of prayer that is because of my concern both for you and for those who come into contact with you.

You seem to be able to ascribe beliefs to me without knowing anything about me. For once we actually agree on something. Church and state SHOULD be separate.

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Message 738931 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 13:41:17 UTC - in response to Message 738905.  

Err, correct me someone if I'm wrong, but wasn't Texas actually a Mexican territory at the time? Whilst many citizens wished to join the USA, the outcome of that war was actually a US CONQUEST of Mexican territory and not a Mexican invasion of the USA. History has a knack of coming up with awkward facts when ultra-nationalists only pick bits they like.


"Technically" speaking, you are correct. The Alamo fell about one month prior to Texas declaring it's Independence from Mexico. However, utilizing that type of logic, the United States didn't declare it's independence until 1776. Now you subtract the 250 years used in the initial example, and you get 1758. "Technically" the United States didn't exist (just like the state of Texas didn't exist) and therefore could not have been occupied by foreign invaders at that time either. That's not an "awkward" history fact, that's data manipulation. For future purposes, I believe in manifest destiny...Texas was always Texas.


Interesting for once. Not my manipulation either but yours, as you have now admitted. I know you only ever acknowledge one side of history but I suppose the people in the Alamo and the people declaring Texan independence were freedom fighters in their own eyes. Did that make them insurrectionists and terrorists in the eyes of Mexico? Don't forget that one man's "freedom fighter" is another man's "terrorist".

In this case I'm for freedom. Self-determination is an important right. I seem to recall George III disagreeing with that and losing rather forcibly. If he had had a more enlightened - even liberal - attitude, history might have been very different and better for the world as a whole.

I wonder how I should feel if I were a citizen of Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba, Somalia, Palestine, etc., etc.


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Message 738942 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 14:09:53 UTC - in response to Message 738931.  

Err, correct me someone if I'm wrong, but wasn't Texas actually a Mexican territory at the time? Whilst many citizens wished to join the USA, the outcome of that war was actually a US CONQUEST of Mexican territory and not a Mexican invasion of the USA. History has a knack of coming up with awkward facts when ultra-nationalists only pick bits they like.


"Technically" speaking, you are correct. The Alamo fell about one month prior to Texas declaring it's Independence from Mexico. However, utilizing that type of logic, the United States didn't declare it's independence until 1776. Now you subtract the 250 years used in the initial example, and you get 1758. "Technically" the United States didn't exist (just like the state of Texas didn't exist) and therefore could not have been occupied by foreign invaders at that time either. That's not an "awkward" history fact, that's data manipulation. For future purposes, I believe in manifest destiny...Texas was always Texas.


Interesting for once. Not my manipulation either but yours, as you have now admitted. I know you only ever acknowledge one side of history but I suppose the people in the Alamo and the people declaring Texan independence were freedom fighters in their own eyes. Did that make them insurrectionists and terrorists in the eyes of Mexico? Don't forget that one man's "freedom fighter" is another man's "terrorist".

In this case I'm for freedom. Self-determination is an important right. I seem to recall George III disagreeing with that and losing rather forcibly. If he had had a more enlightened - even liberal - attitude, history might have been very different and better for the world as a whole.

I wonder how I should feel if I were a citizen of Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba, Somalia, Palestine, etc., etc.

Well spoken!
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Message 739054 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 19:10:08 UTC - in response to Message 738928.  
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So when you're going to "pray for my soul"...that's "defending yourself" and not trying to "hammer your beliefs" into me.

Another example of the logic that makes me proud of separation of church and state.


What I believe is my business. What you believe is yours. If I think you are in need of prayer that is because of my concern both for you and for those who come into contact with you.


I didn't question your beliefs, we already know they are based on faith and not evidence. What I did was point out that your actions, as with most christians, do not reflect the words you speak/type. You claim to not be "hammering your beliefs", yet here again, I am in need of prayer.

You seem to be able to ascribe beliefs to me without knowing anything about me. For once we actually agree on something. Church and state SHOULD be separate.


I know that you are a christian and I know what that entails. You and your beliefs are right, every non-christian is a sinner and in need of saving...hence your "concern" for me and those who come into contact with me.

Whether or not you support separation of church and state is irrelevant...it's the law, doesn't matter how either one of us feels. All I did was indicate how your "christian logic" makes me happy about that one.

Interesting for once. Not my manipulation either but yours, as you have now admitted. I know you only ever acknowledge one side of history but I suppose the people in the Alamo and the people declaring Texan independence were freedom fighters in their own eyes. Did that make them insurrectionists and terrorists in the eyes of Mexico? Don't forget that one man's "freedom fighter" is another man's "terrorist".


Well that really depends on if you understand the difference between suicide bombing the corner cafe and men defending a military installation. You see, we weren't killing random civilians at the Alamo, we were defending a military outpost.


In this case I'm for freedom. Self-determination is an important right. I seem to recall George III disagreeing with that and losing rather forcibly. If he had had a more enlightened - even liberal - attitude, history might have been very different and better for the world as a whole.


That's funny, because I look at all America has done for the world and can't possibly imagine things being better had we not been forced to declare our independence... "Better" is a very subjective term and I suspect our ideas of what "better" would be are quite different.

I wonder how I should feel if I were a citizen of Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba, Somalia, Palestine, etc., etc.


That would depend on if you were the oppressor or the oppressed. Saddam didn't gas everyone, just the opposition

You can try to deny it all day long, but the bottom line is we're better than they are...


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Message 739063 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 19:34:33 UTC - in response to Message 739054.  
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Saddam didn't gas everyone, just the opposition

Republicans don't impoverish everyone, just the opposition...

Personally, I'd rather be gassed... But either way, it's still murder... ;)

("You can try to deny it all day long, but the bottom line is we're NOT better than they are")
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 739064 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 19:36:13 UTC - in response to Message 739054.  

You can try to deny it all day long, but the bottom line is we're better than they are...


Sorry, you could not be further from the truth if you actually tried.

It sounds to me like the sentiment of ancient Egypt, Rome, Greece, Persia, Russia, Britain, Hitler, Attila, and all the old empires and dictators of the past that you care to name. You and your kind are destined to follow them protesting your might and right to your dying breath.

"My name is Ozymandias. Gaze on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

Your personal God is a glorious Trinity indeed: Self, Money and America. You worship him with undivided loyalty. One can only stand back and admire such self-delusional conceit and contempt. The priests of the ancient gods would be proud to see such devotion.

At least the decent religions all show that a bit of humility is the best of all virtues. Hate gets you nowhere.

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Message 739065 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 19:43:37 UTC - in response to Message 739064.  

You can try to deny it all day long, but the bottom line is we're better than they are...


Sorry, you could not be further from the truth if you actually tried.

It sounds to me like the sentiment of ancient Egypt, Rome, Greece, Persia, Russia, Britain, Hitler, Attila, and all the old empires and dictators of the past that you care to name. You and your kind are destined to follow them protesting your might and right to your dying breath.

"My name is Ozymandias. Gaze on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

Your personal God is a glorious Trinity indeed: Self, Money and America. You worship him with undivided loyalty. One can only stand back and admire such self-delusional conceit and contempt. The priests of the ancient gods would be proud to see such devotion.

At least the decent religions all show that a bit of humility is the best of all virtues. Hate gets you nowhere.


Laughing Out Loud

There you go defending yourself again...



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Message 739088 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 20:37:29 UTC - in response to Message 739064.  

At least the decent religions all show that a bit of humility is the best of all virtues. Hate gets you nowhere.

I think this is pearls before swine - since one of our opponents in this discussion is one who advocates humiliation and terrorization of people who are just suspects (but often even innocents) to press information out of them.

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Message 739102 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 21:30:08 UTC - in response to Message 739088.  

At least the decent religions all show that a bit of humility is the best of all virtues. Hate gets you nowhere.

I think this is pearls before swine - since one of our opponents in this discussion is one who advocates humiliation and terrorization of people who are just suspects (but often even innocents) to press information out of them.

You don't actually get information as the term should be understood.

What you get is a regurgitation of what the 'suspect" thinks you want to hear ...

And if the person is a "suspect" by what law are we extracting information by coercion?

Or are we now a nation of rulers and not law?

Had George listened ... things would be different ... oh my ... if only he had listened ... Oh sorry, I was thinking of the wrong George ... The old historical King George ... I missed that, silly me, I though we were talking about King George of the Divine Right of Haliburton and by the grace of Dick Cheney ...
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Message 739125 - Posted: 14 Apr 2008, 22:26:47 UTC - in response to Message 739088.  
Last modified: 14 Apr 2008, 22:32:26 UTC

At least the decent religions all show that a bit of humility is the best of all virtues. Hate gets you nowhere.

I think this is pearls before swine - since one of our opponents in this discussion is one who advocates humiliation and terrorization of people who are just suspects (but often even innocents) to press information out of them.


The safety of American citizens comes WAAAAY before the "rights" of enemy combatants captured on the field of battle.

You see, as someone who's NOT an enemy sympathizer, I really don't care about the problems these people have created for themselves.


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Message 739277 - Posted: 15 Apr 2008, 6:22:48 UTC - in response to Message 739125.  

The safety of American citizens comes WAAAAY before the "rights" of enemy combatants captured on the field of battle.

You see, as someone who's NOT an enemy sympathizer, I really don't care about the problems these people have created for themselves.


I suspect rabies or some other brain disease. I just hope for the sake of the WHOLE world that the coming election keeps people with such poisonous views out of the White House.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel". Samuel Johnson April 7, 1775.

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