gender, sex, or?

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Profile thorin belvrog
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Message 726861 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 10:57:59 UTC
Last modified: 16 Mar 2008, 11:01:27 UTC

More and more colleges and universities have to treat with a new situation: transgender people, folks who attend as one gender and will finish as another.

Example story:
When Girls Will Be Boys

Since I do know a few transgendered people myself, I want to ask: what experience do you have with such people?
What do you think about gender identity and how it's handled?
Would you support your friend / child / niece/nephew if they decided to change their appearance or even have their body changed to appear as the gender they feel to be?



Though you can express your dislikes, since this is a difficult topic, all abusive comments will be red-X'd as soon as I see them. So please stay with the rules.
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Message 726896 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 13:36:02 UTC

I´m very sceptic with this.
But its not easy to say.
If its a genetic defect or just psycological.

I can tollerate such decissions in some circumstances.

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 726901 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:07:50 UTC

So Sorry....but I have no tolerance for that thinking.......maybe I'm a little too 'old school' to be liberal about it........
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 726902 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:08:20 UTC - in response to Message 726896.  

I´m very sceptic with this.
But its not easy to say.
If its a genetic defect or just psycological.

I can tollerate such decissions in some circumstances.

It's more than just genetic or psychological. See also here.
Like you as a male identify yourself as being male, transgendered people identify themselves as being of the opposite gender. To simplify it: they feel like being born in the wrong body.

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Message 726909 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:14:31 UTC - in response to Message 726901.  

So Sorry....but I have no tolerance for that thinking.......maybe I'm a little too 'old school' to be liberal about it........



Well said Mark. I am in complete agreement with you here.
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Message 726915 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:23:52 UTC - in response to Message 726901.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2008, 14:25:13 UTC

So Sorry....but I have no tolerance for that thinking.......maybe I'm a little too 'old school' to be liberal about it........

That's okay, I also had to learn tolerance when I was confronted with transgendered people - whom I knew before they had their "coming-out" in their new gender. :D

Now that I learned that they remained the same person within, but became more content with themselves, I would support everyone I like or love if they felt the urge to change likewise.

And after all I learned about that matter, being transgendered is not out of a whim or "just a temporary phase". It's an inner urge: like homosexual people feel the urge to find a same-sex partner inspite of all obstacles, transgendered people feel the urge to become the gender they feel they belong to.
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Message 726917 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:25:24 UTC - in response to Message 726902.  

I´m very sceptic with this.
But its not easy to say.
If its a genetic defect or just psycological.

I can tollerate such decissions in some circumstances.

It's more than just genetic or psychological. See also here.
Like you as a male identify yourself as being male, transgendered people identify themselves as being of the opposite gender. To simplify it: they feel like being born in the wrong body.


You´ve done it they feel, but why.
Read between.

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 726924 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:34:46 UTC

I also know several TG people, myself - some are friends whilst others are people with whom I deal with in my work and one is a work colleague. Through the initial friend who was, to put it mildly, 'troubled', I got to know others and have gained quite a lot of knowledge on the subject. Sadly, I have known someone who committed suicide, which was due to the attitude of their family - this was still much in evidence at their funeral! Frankly, these 'parents' were not worthy of having any children, let alone a witty, vibrant and kind person who was a Robotics Engineer!!!

Gender identity? Well, I have one for the guys here..... did you know that all you guys were female at one point, in the womb? Yep, thats right, all you guys have changed 'sex'!

As to how it is dealt with, I'd have to say, based purely on the experience of the people I know, that the regime in the UK is over-stringent and too centralised and thats just the Medical side of things. For example, one person I know, sfter a number of suicide attempts, sought help - it took 10 months to get an appointment in London at Charing Cross Hospital, and that was just for their initial assessment, after they'd gone to a 'local' psychiatrist to be basically certified as not being insane to get that referral to London. That took 4 months - thats 14 months in appointment waiting times to get to see a specialist, when that person is already 'on the edge'! Barbaric. Socially it is no better. Again, using that person as an example, they informed their employer of their intentions and was told they'd be supported. Two months after their London appointment, they started being 'picked on' for the silliest of things - a diary was kept, since, under the Law, they were protected from the day that they informed their employer. Eventually, they lost their job and then found that they could not afford to go to the all-important second appointment - as they were deemed to have resigned or been sacked, they did not qualify for benefits for 3 months and even if they had, they would have had to pay for the costs of the travel and then reclaim them. As I remember it, the cost of the train ticket was over £80 and benefits were about £45 per week (they used to pay more than double that in tax!) - I was the one who lent them the money to go. In the end, the employer had to part with about £9,000 - all I did was point to the relevant Laws for my friend's submissions and an out-of-court settlement was reached which suited both parties.

As to how I'd act, well, I think I've answered that one and it would not make any difference if it were someone in my family. It is the mind of a person that defines who they are - the rest is just a vehicle for it.




Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 726926 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:41:51 UTC

OK...one of my brothers also commited suicide........
And it had nothing to do with wondering about why he had balls......
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 726930 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:45:06 UTC


Iona is true in the first position.
That why i´ve said if its a genetic thing or not.
Today its possible to sort genetic defects out.
Than a person can choose wich gender he/she likes to have.

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 726939 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:47:43 UTC - in response to Message 726930.  


Iona is true in the first position.
That why i´ve said if its a genetic thing or not.
Today its possible to sort genetic defects out.
Than a person can choose wich gender he/she likes to have.

Genetics my arse........you are born what you are.......
If your silly arse looks between your legs and thinks you are something else....
Whatever........
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 726942 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:49:52 UTC - in response to Message 726939.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2008, 14:50:34 UTC


Iona is true in the first position.
That why i´ve said if its a genetic thing or not.
Today its possible to sort genetic defects out.
Than a person can choose wich gender he/she likes to have.

Genetics my arse........you are born what you are.......
If your silly arse looks between your legs and thinks you are something else....
Whatever........


Sorry Mark but the world isn´t that easy these days.
If you had a child with the condergan symptome.
Would you accept that???
With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 726951 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:53:24 UTC - in response to Message 726942.  


Iona is true in the first position.
That why i´ve said if its a genetic thing or not.
Today its possible to sort genetic defects out.
Than a person can choose wich gender he/she likes to have.

Genetics my arse........you are born what you are.......
If your silly arse looks between your legs and thinks you are something else....
Whatever........


Sorry Mark but the world isn´t that easy these days.
If you had a child with the condergan symptome.
Would you accept that???

A child is something special......and exceptions must be made, I suppose.....
Let me read up on the condition you are talking about.......
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 726953 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:54:52 UTC - in response to Message 726926.  

OK...one of my brothers also commited suicide........
And it had nothing to do with wondering about why he had balls......



Sadly, my brother, who was a smoker died early - he was killed crossing the road. He didn't die becasue he was s smoker, but because he was hit by a car doing over 40 mph in a 30 mph limit.

Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 726954 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:55:27 UTC

I would hate to have a problem such as this...The only way to really understand this problem is to have it yourself...So i cannot make any judgment on those who do.

PROUD TO BE TFFE!
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Message 726963 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 14:59:09 UTC - in response to Message 726953.  

OK...one of my brothers also commited suicide........
And it had nothing to do with wondering about why he had balls......



Sadly, my brother, who was a smoker died early - he was killed crossing the road. He didn't die becasue he was s smoker, but because he was hit by a car doing over 40 mph in a 30 mph limit.

Well, my bro jumped offa a bridge.....hit the railroad tracks below.....
I was the one who was left the task of kissing him goodbye on the slab.
So please pardon me if I get a bit maudlin now and again......
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 726968 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 15:03:15 UTC

I don't want to see posts be hidden or the entire thread be removed - so please try to stay polite even though you entirely disagree with even tolerating the idea on topic.

Can you imagine what hard time I had myself (having been intolerant at that time) when I met a former class-mate after a decade out of contact - and the person was of the opposite gender than I knew them? When I finally learned to tolerate and even understand that person, it was worth it. I realized that it is the person that matters, and not what their chromosomes tell they are. (Though I would have a big problem with tolerance if a girl I fell in love with had the "wrong plumbing" Down There.)
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Message 726973 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 15:08:50 UTC - in response to Message 726968.  

I don't want to see posts be hidden or the entire thread be removed - so please try to stay polite even though you entirely disagree with even tolerating the idea on topic.

Can you imagine what hard time I had myself (having been intolerant at that time) when I met a former class-mate after a decade out of contact - and the person was of the opposite gender than I knew them? When I finally learned to tolerate and even understand that person, it was worth it. I realized that it is the person that matters, and not what their chromosomes tell they are. (Though I would have a big problem with tolerance if a girl I fell in love with had the "wrong plumbing" Down There.)

Fair enough, friend.
If there were enough tolerance in this world for everyone else's thoughts and feelings there would be no wars, eh?
I stand down now........and respect your views on the subject......
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 726995 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 15:22:42 UTC - in response to Message 726963.  

OK...one of my brothers also commited suicide........
And it had nothing to do with wondering about why he had balls......



Sadly, my brother, who was a smoker died early - he was killed crossing the road. He didn't die becasue he was s smoker, but because he was hit by a car doing over 40 mph in a 30 mph limit.

Well, my bro jumped offa a bridge.....hit the railroad tracks below.....
I was the one who was left the task of kissing him goodbye on the slab.
So please pardon me if I get a bit maudlin now and again......



I'm sorry to hear that, it must have been awful. I was the one who, in a sense, ended my brother's Life a second time, in agreeing for the Life Support to be switched off. Few days go by, without the words, "what if", "perhaps they were wrong" and "patience" entering my thoughts.

Don't take life too seriously, as you'll never come out of it alive!
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Message 726996 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 15:24:55 UTC - in response to Message 726995.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2008, 15:25:59 UTC

OK...one of my brothers also commited suicide........
And it had nothing to do with wondering about why he had balls......



Sadly, my brother, who was a smoker died early - he was killed crossing the road. He didn't die becasue he was s smoker, but because he was hit by a car doing over 40 mph in a 30 mph limit.

Well, my bro jumped offa a bridge.....hit the railroad tracks below.....
I was the one who was left the task of kissing him goodbye on the slab.
So please pardon me if I get a bit maudlin now and again......



I'm sorry to hear that, it must have been awful. I was the one who, in a sense, ended my brother's Life a second time, in agreeing for the Life Support to be switched off. Few days go by, without the words, "what if", "perhaps they were wrong" and "patience" entering my thoughts.

But now you are jumping off in another direction......
Are we talking about the end of life, or trangenderism?

I could go on about either........
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message boards : Politics : gender, sex, or?


 
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