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Sirius B Project Donor
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Message 726347 - Posted: 15 Mar 2008, 1:41:57 UTC

For the past couple of weeks the stats sites have been playing up.

For example, boincstats "lost" over 100k of my credits yesterday & regained them today. However, allprojectsstats has now lost my RS credits. Is this just a fault with the sites or are they attempting to adjust the stats as described in numerous credit debates?
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Message 726352 - Posted: 15 Mar 2008, 1:45:40 UTC - in response to Message 726347.  

For the past couple of weeks the stats sites have been playing up.

For example, boincstats "lost" over 100k of my credits yesterday & regained them today. However, allprojectsstats has now lost my RS credits. Is this just a fault with the sites or are they attempting to adjust the stats as described in numerous credit debates?


Boincsynergy didn't post any stats for today (Pi day). I guess they'll catch up tomorrow.


On a related note, which stat site do you check? Do any of them seem to be more reliable than others?
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Message 726357 - Posted: 15 Mar 2008, 1:58:50 UTC

I just use the ones on the accounts page. I've found BS stats & statistics for the world to be pretty good.
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Message 726366 - Posted: 15 Mar 2008, 2:27:41 UTC

I like boinc stats because it has good detailed stats and can be used as an account manager.

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Message 727009 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 15:55:27 UTC

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig
I'm a Prefectionist ;)
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Message 727018 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 16:09:55 UTC - in response to Message 727009.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?
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Message 727022 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 16:16:43 UTC - in response to Message 727018.  
Last modified: 16 Mar 2008, 16:16:57 UTC

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.
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Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
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Message 727027 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 16:33:57 UTC

There's some discussion with Matt in Playing Fair (Jan 15 2008). It seems as if you use documented XML calls, you should be OK, but it still hits the servers hard enough to be noticed.
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Message 727046 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 17:07:06 UTC - in response to Message 727022.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....
I'm a Prefectionist ;)
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Blu Dude
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Message 727092 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 19:40:10 UTC - in response to Message 727046.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....

Ok, according to my calculations, if every active s@h user switched to brain smashr stats, the db bandwidth would be about the same as a stat site that downloaded the daily dump 3 times a day. How often do stats sites download those files?

I'm a Prefectionist ;)
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Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
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Message 727101 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 20:01:57 UTC - in response to Message 727092.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....

Ok, according to my calculations, if every active s@h user switched to brain smashr stats, the db bandwidth would be about the same as a stat site that downloaded the daily dump 3 times a day. How often do stats sites download those files?

Once per day?

But it's not just the bandwidth - it's the relative efficiency (in database terms) of the queries that are used to turn the database into one big XML file or lots of little XML files. And I haven't the beginnings of an idea of how to go about working that out.
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Message 727106 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 20:13:18 UTC - in response to Message 727101.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....

Ok, according to my calculations, if every active s@h user switched to brain smashr stats, the db bandwidth would be about the same as a stat site that downloaded the daily dump 3 times a day. How often do stats sites download those files?

Once per day?

But it's not just the bandwidth - it's the relative efficiency (in database terms) of the queries that are used to turn the database into one big XML file or lots of little XML files. And I haven't the beginnings of an idea of how to go about working that out.

I know that it's not just bandwidth - lots of small queries can be quite more taxing than one big one - forgot to post that. And I don't have a database sitting next to me that I can test. I would think that the stat sites download 2-3 times per day, if not more....

I'm a Prefectionist ;)
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Blu Dude
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Message 727108 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 20:22:46 UTC - in response to Message 727106.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....

Ok, according to my calculations, if every active s@h user switched to brain smashr stats, the db bandwidth would be about the same as a stat site that downloaded the daily dump 3 times a day. How often do stats sites download those files?

Once per day?

But it's not just the bandwidth - it's the relative efficiency (in database terms) of the queries that are used to turn the database into one big XML file or lots of little XML files. And I haven't the beginnings of an idea of how to go about working that out.

I know that it's not just bandwidth - lots of small queries can be quite more taxing than one big one - forgot to post that. And I don't have a database sitting next to me that I can test. I would think that the stat sites download 2-3 times per day, if not more....

Ok - all project stats updates every 25 minutes (which is about 57 times a day). Just this one site is generating way more db traffic than if alll the seti users switched to brain smashr!

I'm a Prefectionist ;)
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Message 727109 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 20:24:42 UTC - in response to Message 727106.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....

Ok, according to my calculations, if every active s@h user switched to brain smashr stats, the db bandwidth would be about the same as a stat site that downloaded the daily dump 3 times a day. How often do stats sites download those files?

Once per day?

But it's not just the bandwidth - it's the relative efficiency (in database terms) of the queries that are used to turn the database into one big XML file or lots of little XML files. And I haven't the beginnings of an idea of how to go about working that out.

I know that it's not just bandwidth - lots of small queries can be quite more taxing than one big one - forgot to post that. And I don't have a database sitting next to me that I can test. I would think that the stat sites download 2-3 times per day, if not more....

If you point your browser at http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/stats/, you can see the size of the files in question - the largest is 272MBytes compressed - and two smaller files.

The smallest of all (tables.xml - just 451 bytes) contains a timestamp. I would expect any well-written stats site to download that tiny file quite often - once an hour or so - and only download the big ones when the timestamp changes. For SETI, that's once per day.
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Message 727113 - Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 21:09:14 UTC - in response to Message 727109.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....

Ok, according to my calculations, if every active s@h user switched to brain smashr stats, the db bandwidth would be about the same as a stat site that downloaded the daily dump 3 times a day. How often do stats sites download those files?

Once per day?

But it's not just the bandwidth - it's the relative efficiency (in database terms) of the queries that are used to turn the database into one big XML file or lots of little XML files. And I haven't the beginnings of an idea of how to go about working that out.

I know that it's not just bandwidth - lots of small queries can be quite more taxing than one big one - forgot to post that. And I don't have a database sitting next to me that I can test. I would think that the stat sites download 2-3 times per day, if not more....

If you point your browser at http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/stats/, you can see the size of the files in question - the largest is 272MBytes compressed - and two smaller files.

The smallest of all (tables.xml - just 451 bytes) contains a timestamp. I would expect any well-written stats site to download that tiny file quite often - once an hour or so - and only download the big ones when the timestamp changes. For SETI, that's once per day.

I screwed up my calculations, thinking the 701 byte file was the daily dump (701mb). But the database is still queried 57 times a day. No wonder brainsmashr is so much more accurate - It's stats server is literally the project itself !

I'm a Prefectionist ;)
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Message 727189 - Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 0:29:06 UTC - in response to Message 727113.  

I Like the newBrainSmashRstats
They are so much more accurate because they don't download the daily dump, but rather query the project database more often. It is highly configurable. I also use tinyurl.com because some of the urls it generates are over 100 chars long.
You can see one of the "summary, style 2" counters in my sig


I thought querying the database directly wasn't allowed? Does anyone know for certain on this?

I remember Matt or maybe Eric saying they have blocked IP addresses for doing this sort of thing, as it acts like a DoS attack and bogs down the servers.

The system has built - in limits as to not bog down servers, and doesn't really check that often, just more than a daily dump - It may use the "stats on your cell phone" page, as that is a nice format, but I don't know....

Ok, according to my calculations, if every active s@h user switched to brain smashr stats, the db bandwidth would be about the same as a stat site that downloaded the daily dump 3 times a day. How often do stats sites download those files?

Once per day?

But it's not just the bandwidth - it's the relative efficiency (in database terms) of the queries that are used to turn the database into one big XML file or lots of little XML files. And I haven't the beginnings of an idea of how to go about working that out.

I know that it's not just bandwidth - lots of small queries can be quite more taxing than one big one - forgot to post that. And I don't have a database sitting next to me that I can test. I would think that the stat sites download 2-3 times per day, if not more....

If you point your browser at http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/stats/, you can see the size of the files in question - the largest is 272MBytes compressed - and two smaller files.

The smallest of all (tables.xml - just 451 bytes) contains a timestamp. I would expect any well-written stats site to download that tiny file quite often - once an hour or so - and only download the big ones when the timestamp changes. For SETI, that's once per day.

I screwed up my calculations, thinking the 701 byte file was the daily dump (701mb). But the database is still queried 57 times a day. No wonder brainsmashr is so much more accurate - It's stats server is literally the project itself !

This stats site was developed years ago, the last version is several years old, and the author's s@h account has 0 rac and hasn't had any activity in a long time. Someone could try pming him (Petrus) on one of his active projects. My guess is that db activity wasn't a prime concern back then...

I'm a Prefectionist ;)
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Message 727430 - Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 21:06:56 UTC

New info - BrainSmashR has a new account user id 712168 (and it isn't boinc - wide, and he probably forgot about the old account.
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Message 727455 - Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 22:26:10 UTC

Heh... just to clear up a few things. I'm not responsible for BOINCwapstats (refered to here as BrainSmashRstats). I merely host a highly edited version of the original on my server. Basically the edits consist of adding projects not included in the original program which utilize the wapstats feature (stats on your cell phone) and some very simple rewrite rules which make it possible to display the dynamic image on forums which do not allow images ending in .php At this time I do not have all of the BOINC projects included simply because I don't crunch every project and have gotten rather lax in keeping it updated

All I can tell you about the database activity is that wapstats is a feature freely offered by most of the projects and that the program does indeed query the database once per page view & per person. For instance, even though BluDude's signature appears 8 times on this topic, that's only 1 database query per person...if 5 different people/ip addresses are viewing this thread, then that's 5 separate queries. What I like most about BOINCwapstats over the other stat sites is that it's always current since the info comes directly from the project rather than from 1 massive file that's only updated once a day.

As far as "hammering" the server with queries, I have neither been accused of doing so nor have I been asked to change how the program operates....and obviously my IP hasn't been banned either since you can all see the signatures.

I know that's not much help, but as I indicated earlier, I'm not the author of BOINCwapstats, just one of several hosts on the 'net


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Message 727535 - Posted: 18 Mar 2008, 2:37:44 UTC - in response to Message 727455.  

Heh... just to clear up a few things. I'm not responsible for BOINCwapstats (refered to here as BrainSmashRstats). I merely host a highly edited version of the original on my server. Basically the edits consist of adding projects not included in the original program which utilize the wapstats feature (stats on your cell phone) and some very simple rewrite rules which make it possible to display the dynamic image on forums which do not allow images ending in .php At this time I do not have all of the BOINC projects included simply because I don't crunch every project and have gotten rather lax in keeping it updated

All I can tell you about the database activity is that wapstats is a feature freely offered by most of the projects and that the program does indeed query the database once per page view & per person. For instance, even though BluDude's signature appears 8 times on this topic, that's only 1 database query per person...if 5 different people/ip addresses are viewing this thread, then that's 5 separate queries. What I like most about BOINCwapstats over the other stat sites is that it's always current since the info comes directly from the project rather than from 1 massive file that's only updated once a day.

As far as "hammering" the server with queries, I have neither been accused of doing so nor have I been asked to change how the program operates....and obviously my IP hasn't been banned either since you can all see the signatures.

I know that's not much help, but as I indicated earlier, I'm not the author of BOINCwapstats, just one of several hosts on the 'net


Thanks for the info BrainSmashR, that does help clear it up. Now I don't see how it would cause a lot of extra overhead for the database by going through the wap stat's, but I'm not someone who deals with databases.

Crunch on!

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Message 727712 - Posted: 18 Mar 2008, 22:39:04 UTC

Is there a site that tells you your stats up to date? Boincstats has already done their update for tomorrow so I will only show a bit over 5000 for the day although I am up 11,000 from the update this morning...So I guess the next day will look atificially high....I have been trying to figure them out for some time but seems they just update once a day whenever they choose....
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