AMD Phenom

Message boards : Number crunching : AMD Phenom
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 6 · 7 · 8 · 9

AuthorMessage
ChrisD
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Sep 99
Posts: 158
Credit: 2,496,342
RAC: 0
Denmark
Message 745119 - Posted: 27 Apr 2008, 20:00:12 UTC - in response to Message 744426.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2008, 20:02:15 UTC

If I can ever get a straight answer from HP, I will definitely check the PSU. I have had plenty of non-answer answers from HP now. I think I will give up on them, for now, before I get too P.O.'d at them. As I stated in previous posts, per HP, both the a6313w and a6430f have an ASUS M2N68-LA MoBo in them, but HP has renamed them Narra2 and Narra3 respectively. They say the Narra2 has an AM2 socket, and the Narra3 has an AM2+ socket. But depending upon which HP rep responds to my emails, I get widely varied answers. Maybe in a few months they will be more knowledgeable about their own products. Geesh!



My 2 cents: (kindly delete the not needed info :))

Socket AM2 and AM2+ are physically equal, but the AM2+ boards must have 2 power planes, alowing 2 seperate power rails to power the CPU cores and the memory controller part of the CPU respectively.

(Specs says that an AM2 board must be able to supply at least 90 Watts to the CPU, but a lot of the better AM2 boards can easily deliver the 125 Watts required by an Athlon X2 6400+)

If Your MB is equipped with an 7 or 8 phase power converter able to supply a 6400+ Dual Core Processor (125 Watts) it has sufficient power to run an AM2+ processor like the Phenom.

Only obstacle will then be the BIOS.

As HP is known to 'hide' a lot of info from the customers, You run into the problem where HP has put one BIOS in a board and calls it Narra 2 and another in the next identical MB calling this a Narra 3.

To cut through the b**s** (this get me banned :), check if the MB can supply an Athlon 6400+. If it can, only the BIOS will prevent You from using a Phenom.

Best of luck

ChrisD
ID: 745119 · Report as offensive
Sniper
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 99
Posts: 310
Credit: 2,831,142
RAC: 0
United States
Message 745209 - Posted: 27 Apr 2008, 22:06:01 UTC - in response to Message 745119.  



My 2 cents: (kindly delete the not needed info :))

ChrisD


Thanks ChrisD,

The a6430f has a Phenom 8400, Triple-Core(95W).

The documentation says "HT 3.0 is not supported by this motherboard's chipset", so I am just going to have to get a new MoBo, (Phenom 9850 is already being shipped), any suggestions? I have some old video cards, so I don't need onboard video, or sound. This will be a cruncher only machine. Thanks.
ID: 745209 · Report as offensive
OzzFan Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 02
Posts: 15691
Credit: 84,761,841
RAC: 28
United States
Message 745269 - Posted: 28 Apr 2008, 0:04:45 UTC - in response to Message 745119.  

<snip> check if the MB can supply an Athlon 6400+. If it can, only the BIOS will prevent You from using a Phenom.


I don't know if you're talkinga bout the HP-branded Asus boards only, but my Asus M2NBP-VM CSM board can support an Athlon X2 6400+ but cannot support the Phenom processor. I'm told the onboard nVidia chipset does not support the proper signaling to allow the Phenom to operate, even through a BIOS update.
ID: 745269 · Report as offensive
Profile FalconFly
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 5 Oct 99
Posts: 394
Credit: 18,053,892
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 745415 - Posted: 28 Apr 2008, 13:00:03 UTC - in response to Message 745209.  
Last modified: 28 Apr 2008, 13:07:05 UTC

The documentation says "HT 3.0 is not supported by this motherboard's chipset", so I am just going to have to get a new MoBo


Lack of HT3.0 support is no need to buy a new Board, the performance loss (if any) is lower than typical Benchmark accuracy.
The only "Applications" that even show any difference are tweaked, synthetic Memory benchmarks like Sandra 200x (which lie to the User by default and only provide meaningless, theoretical Burst Rates)

AM2+ CPUs run perfectly fine in any AM2 Board, for as long as their BIOS supports it and you can live with the tiny, remaining limitations (no individual core clock adjustment or Cool&Quiet 2.0 - C&Q 1.0 functions still run normal)

Going over alot of AM2+ feedback, I found the older AM2 Boards sometimes seem to be a better choice even, no stability problems and lower avg. Power consumption than any AM2+ Chipset. I've reached record-low power consumption levels with old AM2 Boards, that others cannot even touch due to their comparably power-hungry AM2+ Chipsets.
ID: 745415 · Report as offensive
Sniper
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 99
Posts: 310
Credit: 2,831,142
RAC: 0
United States
Message 745460 - Posted: 28 Apr 2008, 17:35:08 UTC - in response to Message 745415.  

The documentation says "HT 3.0 is not supported by this motherboard's chipset", so I am just going to have to get a new MoBo


Lack of HT3.0 support is no need to buy a new Board.....AM2+ CPUs run perfectly fine in any AM2 Board, for as long as their BIOS supports it......


I have given up on HP/ASUS giving me any support. If I had to upgrade the BIOS, it would never happen.

I have an MSI K9A2 CF-F AMD 790X Phenom Socket AM2+ 2000 MHz MoBo on the way, along with an Echo Star 600W PSU.
ID: 745460 · Report as offensive
rq2000

Send message
Joined: 19 May 99
Posts: 662
Credit: 1,041,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 747398 - Posted: 3 May 2008, 8:48:11 UTC - in response to Message 745460.  

The documentation says "HT 3.0 is not supported by this motherboard's chipset", so I am just going to have to get a new MoBo


Lack of HT3.0 support is no need to buy a new Board.....AM2+ CPUs run perfectly fine in any AM2 Board, for as long as their BIOS supports it......


I have given up on HP/ASUS giving me any support. If I had to upgrade the BIOS, it would never happen.

I have an MSI K9A2 CF-F AMD 790X Phenom Socket AM2+ 2000 MHz MoBo on the way, along with an Echo Star 600W PSU.

I would think the PSU upgrade was a good thing. When Starting to build my Phenom 9600 I was told I needed what I thought was a HUGE power supply considering I was running onboard video, 2 GB Ram, 1 DVD writer and a Harddrive I think someone told me to go 560+ a 300W wouldn't come close to powering it... I didn't listen to them and contacted the manufacturer of a case I was interested in purchasing that came with its own 400W power supply. I was told it would be adequate after waiting for over a week. It works just fine. After my build, I was checking prices to see what I had saved by building it myself and found several companies and I believe HP is one of them shipping Phenom 9600 with a 300W power supply and one even had an add on Video card. Needless to say my build was cheaper by around $350 to $500 from the less expensive ones and lots more from the Gaming & Entertainment machines. My point being You never know what those guys are up to and they probably don't either. It does make a little more sence to me now as to why I couldn't come up with the motherboard some where using in the machine.
ID: 747398 · Report as offensive
Sniper
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 99
Posts: 310
Credit: 2,831,142
RAC: 0
United States
Message 747482 - Posted: 3 May 2008, 15:04:22 UTC - in response to Message 747398.  
Last modified: 3 May 2008, 15:11:24 UTC

After my build, I was checking prices to see what I had saved by building it myself and found several companies and I believe HP is one of them shipping Phenom 9600 with a 300W power supply and one even had an add on Video card. Needless to say my build was cheaper by around $350 to $500 from the less expensive ones and lots more from the Gaming & Entertainment machines. My point being You never know what those guys are up to and they probably don't either. It does make a little more sence to me now as to why I couldn't come up with the motherboard some where using in the machine.


The Phenom 9600 is a 95 watt CPU, whereas the 9850 is a 125 watt CPU. That 30 watt difference is an important one. The OEM's can get away with less power because they are not OC'ing, they have the memory backed off too. Here is what came stock in my HP a6430f, which has onboard graphics. Thanks to the CPU-Z program.

Phenom Toliman 8400 x3 2.1Ghz (I haven't checked individual processors)
Core Speed= 2110.
FSB at 200.9
HT Link at 1004.7
NB Frequency at 1808.4
FSB:DRAM = 1:2
3GB of PC2-6400 (400 Mhz) Ganged, Dual Channel.
Command Rate = 2T.

This machine could do a whole lot better, but would probably start burning up OEM parts pretty quick.

The Phenom 9850 is new enough that the MoBo companies and AMD haven't listed a whole lot on their webpages, when it comes to compatibility. The 9600 has been out a bit longer, and seems to have more info available.

It is running through WU's pretty fast, especially with the AK V8 that was just given the OK to use. (Excellent optimization there!)
ID: 747482 · Report as offensive
Profile Dennis

Send message
Joined: 26 Jun 07
Posts: 153
Credit: 15,826,319
RAC: 0
United States
Message 747494 - Posted: 3 May 2008, 15:32:12 UTC - in response to Message 747482.  
Last modified: 3 May 2008, 15:37:47 UTC

After my build, I was checking prices to see what I had saved by building it myself and found several companies and I believe HP is one of them shipping Phenom 9600 with a 300W power supply and one even had an add on Video card. Needless to say my build was cheaper by around $350 to $500 from the less expensive ones and lots more from the Gaming & Entertainment machines. My point being You never know what those guys are up to and they probably don't either. It does make a little more sence to me now as to why I couldn't come up with the motherboard some where using in the machine.


The Phenom 9600 is a 95 watt CPU, whereas the 9850 is a 125 watt CPU. That 30 watt difference is an important one. The OEM's can get away with less power because they are not OC'ing, they have the memory backed off too. Here is what came stock in my HP a6430f, which has onboard graphics. Thanks to the CPU-Z program.

Phenom Toliman 8400 x3 2.1Ghz (I haven't checked individual processors)
Core Speed= 2110.
FSB at 200.9
HT Link at 1004.7
NB Frequency at 1808.4
FSB:DRAM = 1:2
3GB of PC2-6400 (400 Mhz) Ganged, Dual Channel.
Command Rate = 2T.

This machine could do a whole lot better, but would probably start burning up OEM parts pretty quick.

The Phenom 9850 is new enough that the MoBo companies and AMD haven't listed a whole lot on their webpages, when it comes to compatibility. The 9600 has been out a bit longer, and seems to have more info available.

It is running through WU's pretty fast, especially with the AK V8 that was just given the OK to use. (Excellent optimization there!)
The 95W/125W you are refering to is not wattage used by the CPU, it isTDP or Thermal design power. The amount of cooling your HSF assy. will need to be able to dissipate to keep cool. To help you figure out the size power supply size needed google power supply calculator or click here for one site I like
ID: 747494 · Report as offensive
rq2000

Send message
Joined: 19 May 99
Posts: 662
Credit: 1,041,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 750509 - Posted: 9 May 2008, 17:34:19 UTC - in response to Message 745209.  


The a6430f has a Phenom 8400, Triple-Core(95W).

The documentation says "HT 3.0 is not supported by this motherboard's chipset", so I am just going to have to get a new MoBo, (Phenom 9850 is already being shipped), any suggestions? I have some old video cards, so I don't need onboard video, or sound. This will be a cruncher only machine. Thanks.


I would be very careful about putting an old video card in a new computer as most of the older video cards will cause a bottleneck. Even the onboard video on cheap mobos will be better than most video cards that are three years old.
Of course it depends on what you are doing with the machine that this would even be relevant. It is something to think about though.
ID: 750509 · Report as offensive
kittyman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 51470
Credit: 1,018,363,574
RAC: 1,004
United States
Message 750511 - Posted: 9 May 2008, 17:38:07 UTC - in response to Message 750509.  
Last modified: 9 May 2008, 17:40:23 UTC


The a6430f has a Phenom 8400, Triple-Core(95W).

The documentation says "HT 3.0 is not supported by this motherboard's chipset", so I am just going to have to get a new MoBo, (Phenom 9850 is already being shipped), any suggestions? I have some old video cards, so I don't need onboard video, or sound. This will be a cruncher only machine. Thanks.


I would be very careful about putting an old video card in a new computer as most of the older video cards will cause a bottleneck. Even the onboard video on cheap mobos will be better than most video cards that are three years old.
Of course it depends on what you are doing with the machine that this would even be relevant. It is something to think about though.

Vid cards rarely would cause a bottleneck in crunching.....
BUT.....they can often cause problems going into and out of the screansaver mode.......
Make sure you have the most recent drivers for your vid card.......and/or do as I do........just disable screensaver on all of your rigs.......
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

ID: 750511 · Report as offensive
Profile zoom3+1=4
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 30 Nov 03
Posts: 65962
Credit: 55,293,173
RAC: 49
United States
Message 750574 - Posted: 9 May 2008, 19:54:46 UTC - in response to Message 750511.  


The a6430f has a Phenom 8400, Triple-Core(95W).

The documentation says "HT 3.0 is not supported by this motherboard's chipset", so I am just going to have to get a new MoBo, (Phenom 9850 is already being shipped), any suggestions? I have some old video cards, so I don't need onboard video, or sound. This will be a cruncher only machine. Thanks.


I would be very careful about putting an old video card in a new computer as most of the older video cards will cause a bottleneck. Even the onboard video on cheap mobos will be better than most video cards that are three years old.
Of course it depends on what you are doing with the machine that this would even be relevant. It is something to think about though.

Vid cards rarely would cause a bottleneck in crunching.....
BUT.....they can often cause problems going into and out of the screensaver mode.......
Make sure you have the most recent drivers for your vid card.......and/or do as I do........just disable screensaver on all of your rigs.......

I do that also Mark, The screensaver is disabled here as It's a pain, I also go into the power options and set that to never on all the settings there.
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
ID: 750574 · Report as offensive
rq2000

Send message
Joined: 19 May 99
Posts: 662
Credit: 1,041,579
RAC: 0
United States
Message 750590 - Posted: 9 May 2008, 20:22:18 UTC - in response to Message 747482.  

The Phenom 9600 is a 95 watt CPU, whereas the 9850 is a 125 watt CPU. That 30 watt difference is an important one. The OEM's can get away with less power because they are not OC'ing, they have the memory backed off too. Here is what came stock in my HP a6430f, which has onboard graphics. Thanks to the CPU-Z program.

Phenom Toliman 8400 x3 2.1Ghz (I haven't checked individual processors)
Core Speed= 2110.
FSB at 200.9
HT Link at 1004.7
NB Frequency at 1808.4
FSB:DRAM = 1:2
3GB of PC2-6400 (400 Mhz) Ganged, Dual Channel.
Command Rate = 2T.

This machine could do a whole lot better, but would probably start burning up OEM parts pretty quick.

The Phenom 9850 is new enough that the MoBo companies and AMD haven't listed a whole lot on their webpages, when it comes to compatibility. The 9600 has been out a bit longer, and seems to have more info available.

It is running through WU's pretty fast, especially with the AK V8 that was just given the OK to use. (Excellent optimization there!)


Just curious as to where you got your information on the memory controller being backed off? I have looked all over and never seen such a thing and it wouldn't really make much since to do this as since AMD is providing CHEAP products. In order to make the OEM version have a mem controller backed off I believe it would have to have a completely different DIE which would cost too much money to be cost effective. I could be wrong on this as I know the Black Editions have an UNLOCKED multiplier which I can't see that needing to be on a different DIE either as again it is not Cost effective to do so. From my understanding the only differences in the OEM 9600 and the RETAIL 9600 are the heatsink (OEM doesn't have one) and the WARRANTY- OEM 1 year and Retail 3 years. Oh and I am sure the shipping cost is considerably different too as the OEM comes in a little Plastic case that might be around 3" x 3" x 0.4" and doesn't contain a HEATSINK and FAN so the weight is considerably less. As for the Power consumption difference OC'ing doesn't necessarily make you have to up the voltages as some people have achieved considerable OC on stock voltages.

TO DENNIS:
I tried that same PSU calculator before hand and it told me I needed at least 430W power supply and my 400W seems to be working just fine. I think they overinflate the PSU to get people to SPEND MORE MONEY on their site for more power than is actually required. I am not saying that a bigger Power supply wouldn't cut down on the heat being expelled from the back of the PSU becuse I am sure it would. I am just saying that STABILITY doesn't seem to be an issue on my budget build Phenom 9600 with the less than $400 I have invested in it. The only 2 parts I used from what I had on hand was a HD and a DVD burner. which if bought new I could still have it at around $450. Again HP and Acer sell Phenom 9600 computers with a 300W power supply in them. The Cheapest I have seen a Pre-built Computer with a Phenom 9600 chip in it is $749 with a $30 mail in rebate.

msattler:
I wasn't talking about a video card bottleneck interfering with crunching in anyway, but you make a good point about the screen saver. I was referring to anything else that might be used on the computer that is video intensive.
ID: 750590 · Report as offensive
Sniper
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 99
Posts: 310
Credit: 2,831,142
RAC: 0
United States
Message 755040 - Posted: 18 May 2008, 9:58:03 UTC

As soon as I can get back home from this 24/7 job, I will be putting 2 Phenom 9850's online. Both will have K9A2 Platinum MoBo's, 4GB 1066 RAM. I dont plan on tweaking them too much to start... Burnt up my previous ASUS MoBo.
ID: 755040 · Report as offensive
Sniper
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 99
Posts: 310
Credit: 2,831,142
RAC: 0
United States
Message 755042 - Posted: 18 May 2008, 10:02:11 UTC - in response to Message 750590.  

Just curious as to where you got your information on the memory controller being backed off?.....


My bad, it is running at 800, not the 400 like CPU-Z shows. I am learning...

ID: 755042 · Report as offensive
1mp0£173
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 8423
Credit: 356,897
RAC: 0
United States
Message 755296 - Posted: 18 May 2008, 19:49:01 UTC - in response to Message 750590.  


TO DENNIS:
I tried that same PSU calculator before hand and it told me I needed at least 430W power supply and my 400W seems to be working just fine. I think they overinflate the PSU to get people to SPEND MORE MONEY on their site for more power than is actually required. I am not saying that a bigger Power supply wouldn't cut down on the heat being expelled from the back of the PSU becuse I am sure it would. I am just saying that STABILITY doesn't seem to be an issue on my budget build Phenom 9600 with the less than $400 I have invested in it. The only 2 parts I used from what I had on hand was a HD and a DVD burner. which if bought new I could still have it at around $450. Again HP and Acer sell Phenom 9600 computers with a 300W power supply in them. The Cheapest I have seen a Pre-built Computer with a Phenom 9600 chip in it is $749 with a $30 mail in rebate.

The technical term is "margin"....

You don't want a power supply that is running flat-out all the time, you want one that is easily handling the total draw.

... and if you're really doing the engineering as a builder like HP might do, you look at the precise requirement on each rail, add 20% to 40% plus a bit more for each empty drive bay (or make sure there are no empty drive bays) and then have that manufactured.

If you aren't able to do that reasonably, or if you want to have a machine you can upgrade later, you go to the calculator, you see that it says 430w minimum, and you go out and buy a 550w supply.

You might get away with 400w, but you do that by either doing all of your homework, or you are lucky.

A prudent on-line "power supply calculator" is going to be conservative and recommend a power supply with plenty of margin.

ID: 755296 · Report as offensive
kittyman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 51470
Credit: 1,018,363,574
RAC: 1,004
United States
Message 755305 - Posted: 18 May 2008, 19:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 755296.  
Last modified: 18 May 2008, 20:17:33 UTC



A prudent on-line "power supply calculator" is going to be conservative and recommend a power supply with plenty of margin.

The kitties highly recommend the PC Power and Cooling Silencer line of power supplies......(now owned by OCZ...whose RAM I recommend as well....)

Not the cheapest, to be sure, but very well designed power supplies....
They are single 12v rail..very high current, so you don't have to worry about how you load multiple rails......

I am running a 750 watt model on the Frozen Penny....a little more than needed to be sure.....my Killawatt shows actual power consumption for the rig at about 370 watts to the power supply......full tilt, all 4 cores crunching Seti, and about every voltage setting in the bios set to max........

Kitty approved.....
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

ID: 755305 · Report as offensive
Sniper
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 99
Posts: 310
Credit: 2,831,142
RAC: 0
United States
Message 755412 - Posted: 18 May 2008, 23:44:02 UTC

Well, I got one of them online, with AKv8-SSE2, and it seems to be doing fine after I took out the 64x SSE3..... Oops. Will be interesting to see what it does in the crunching category.

This is the computer number... 4385788
ID: 755412 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 6 · 7 · 8 · 9

Message boards : Number crunching : AMD Phenom


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.