Ah, so this maybe explains the difference? My (cheap) meters are showing the amount of power I am being charged for, where the expensive meter that ChrisD is using is showing the "Apparent power" which is a higher figure?

Well it's one possible situation, Yes.

Things to keep in mind might be:
- For a perfect power factor of 1.0 --> Apparent power = True Power ... (both measurements would read the same)
- A worse power factor would not increase the cost, as you pay for True Power only.
-It is possible ChrisD may be measuring Apparent (Total) Power & have a poor power factor too!
---> (paying for 250W True, measuring 500W Apparent... PF ~50%, surprisingly common)

LATER:

177 Watts (according to the plug in meter). That's once it is booted up, settled down and crunching SETI on both processors.

This would correlate well with my new E8400, OC'd to 3.6GHz, running in a uATX case .... with a 230W PS :P

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

This would correlate well with my new E8400, OC'd to 3.6GHz, running in a uATX case .... with a 230W PS :P

Thanks Jason. That is good to know :)

(Must look into overclocking mine!)

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This would correlate well with my new E8400, OC'd to 3.6GHz, running in a uATX case .... with a 230W PS :P

Outch! I have 750 watt power supplies on both the Quad core machines, but mostly for spinup times (5 HDD's in each PC). The old 450W supply dropped to 11.1V & 4.2v during the initial startup and only recovered to 12 & 5V after about 20 seconds. The new 750 is rock solid 12/5v from initial turn on.

Once running the 450 would run fine - just that initial spinup was a bit worrying, and after I lost a 500GB HDD I went and bought the better (and supposedly more efficient) supply.

I saw mention of professional power meters, careful what you're measuring.
Oversimplifying:
Check if you are measuring True power (which is what you pay for) or Apparent (Total) Power (which you don't pay for the reactive component as it's not economically feasible for the power company to install these kind of meters in every household). Apparent (Total) power includes the reactive power as a geometic sum ---> Apparent_Power = SQRT( TruePower^2 + ReactivePower^2) ).

And also Power factor is the ratio of True(paid for)Power, to Apparent(Total)Power.

Example: drawing 250 watts True power at (pretty good) power factor of 0.708 would be 353 watts apparent power.

Ah, so this maybe explains the difference? My (cheap) meters are showing the amount of power I am being charged for, where the expensive meter that ChrisD is using is showing the "Apparent power" which is a higher figure?

Good suggestion, but I am sorry, it's a miss.

When this meter shows 330 Watts, my electricity meter is also showing 330 W.

In a little more than an hour, the meter has advanced 1 KWh, which is what I am charged for..

Andy, what mainboard are you using? Make and model.

David: Your 750 Watts Power supply may even save You money as these 'advanced' models tends to have a higher power convertion factor. Next, if a bad power supply is starting to cost HDD's the savings are down the drain, for sure..

Happy crunching to all

ChrisD

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Andy, what mainboard are you using? Make and model.

It's a stock, unmodified, not o/clocked, DELL Dimension E520.

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Andy, what mainboard are you using? Make and model.

It's a stock, unmodified, not o/clocked, DELL Dimension E520.

Hi guy 's , in my last post, found out that i was drawing 800Watt's!
Found 2 KILLERS , an old P2, OC'ed to 550Mhz., It has a very unefficient
Power Supply and a BAD MoBo and my Packard (H)Bell, is using tooooo much. Even more as the Q6600 and my HP lap-top T2400 , TOGETHER !!! And is 350 Watt, once it booted and is CRUNCHING @ 100%

THIS call's for drastic measures ! :( . Half the POWER is used
TO HEAT MY ROOM !

It's a good thing, being brought up !

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Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Over here we have stores called "Maplin". Here's the product: http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=38343&doy=15m2

I don't know where you can get one in the US. The only stores I know in the US are Best Buy, I-Hop & all the clothes shops. LOL! Typical Tourist eh? ;)

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Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Over here we have stores called "Maplin". Here's the product: http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=38343&doy=15m2

I don't know where you can get one in the US. The only stores I know in the US are Best Buy, I-Hop & all the clothes shops. LOL! Typical Tourist eh? ;)

Here is a link to a US version: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001. He seems to be using the same think as a "Kill-a-Watt" meter.

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Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Newegg's got the Kill a Watt... Handy little meter that I have used to measure the power consumption on some of my rigs.....
Or this model... which appears to do some fancier power usage and cost calculations.....

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Honey, I had to upgrade to the Core2 Quad to help save the enviromment. And with it drawing 150W less than our current system, will pay for itself in electricity savings alone in just over a year.

Yeah, like that is going to work....

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Honey, I had to upgrade to the Core2 Quad to help save the enviromment. And with it drawing 150W less than our current system, will pay for itself in electricity savings alone in just over a year.

Yeah, like that is going to work....

LOL!

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See the thing is .. Replace the word "Honey" with the word "Mum" (or "Mom") and you know that 45 bucks savings means you'd better do it, or you'll get a clip 'round the earhole with a wet teatowel...

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"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Newegg's got the Kill a Watt... Handy little meter that I have used to measure the power consumption on some of my rigs.....
Or this model... which appears to do some fancier power usage and cost calculations.....

I'm another happy Kill A Watt owner. The LaCrosse Cost Control also works, but I like the Kill A Watt better.

As the distinction between power the way the power company (and physics) defines it and the simple multiplication of Volts by Amps (neglecting adjustment for Power Factor a.k.a. phase angle) has been mentioned below. The number reported as power by both these meters is what the poster below called "True Power". If you like to see what the poster below called "Apparent Power", which at least in the USA is generally called VA, the Kill A Watt will show you that on an alternate display (but not the LaCrosse product). It will also show you Power Factor if you like. The difference between a PC using a Power Factor compensating supply and one not is quite impressive.

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When this meter shows 330 Watts, my electricity meter is also showing 330 W.

In a little more than an hour, the meter has advanced 1 KWh, which is what I am charged for..

There is another load here.

To show 1KWh, you need to draw 1000w for an hour. If you're only drawing 330 Watts, it should take three hours to total up 1 KWh.

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Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Any good electronics store will have a "DVM" with an amp. scale on it.

Even lousy wanna-be electronics stores (RadioShack) would have 'em.

That said, I'd strongly recommend the Kill-A-Watt mentioned here by others. It's far easier to use and much more informative.

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Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Newegg's got the Kill a Watt... Handy little meter that I have used to measure the power consumption on some of my rigs.....
Or this model... which appears to do some fancier power usage and cost calculations.....

I'm another happy Kill A Watt owner. The LaCrosse Cost Control also works, but I like the Kill A Watt better.

As the distinction between power the way the power company (and physics) defines it and the simple multiplication of Volts by Amps (neglecting adjustment for Power Factor a.k.a. phase angle) has been mentioned below. The number reported as power by both these meters is what the poster below called "True Power". If you like to see what the poster below called "Apparent Power", which at least in the USA is generally called VA, the Kill A Watt will show you that on an alternate display (but not the LaCrosse product). It will also show you Power Factor if you like. The difference between a PC using a Power Factor compensating supply and one not is quite impressive.

... and at the same time, it isn't.

When you are wiring a building (or sizing transformers at the utility) you have to use VA (the apparent power). Having a power-factor-compensated power supply means more systems on a branch circuit before you pop the breaker.

But we pay the utility for watts. If the power factor is 1, watts and VA are the same (current and voltage in phase), but since it almost never is, we pay based on the smaller number.

Lots of folks equate a high power factor with efficiency, and that may or may not be true. If you could get a supply with a power factor of zero your PC would run for free.

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When you are wiring a building (or sizing transformers at the utility) you have to use VA (the apparent power). Having a power-factor-compensated power supply means more systems on a branch circuit before you pop the breaker.

That's because the wire does not care what power is being delivered into the load, but what current it is carrying--a different problem altogether.

If you could get a supply with a power factor of zero your PC would run for free.

Which would be somewhat fair, because it would be consuming zero power. So it would not be running, even though current might be sloshing in and out of the reactive components in the system.

Another deal with power factor is the effect on overall power system stability. Does or does not the utility need to add kvar (capacitance) to their system to compensate for the instability contributed by your load. But we individuals are not usually asked to worry much about that.

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Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Newegg's got the Kill a Watt... Handy little meter that I have used to measure the power consumption on some of my rigs.....
Or this model... which appears to do some fancier power usage and cost calculations.....

I'm another happy Kill A Watt owner. The LaCrosse Cost Control also works, but I like the Kill A Watt better.

As the distinction between power the way the power company (and physics) defines it and the simple multiplication of Volts by Amps (neglecting adjustment for Power Factor a.k.a. phase angle) has been mentioned below. The number reported as power by both these meters is what the poster below called "True Power". If you like to see what the poster below called "Apparent Power", which at least in the USA is generally called VA, the Kill A Watt will show you that on an alternate display (but not the LaCrosse product). It will also show you Power Factor if you like. The difference between a PC using a Power Factor compensating supply and one not is quite impressive.

... and at the same time, it isn't.

When you are wiring a building (or sizing transformers at the utility) you have to use VA (the apparent power). Having a power-factor-compensated power supply means more systems on a branch circuit before you pop the breaker.

But we pay the utility for watts. If the power factor is 1, watts and VA are the same (current and voltage in phase), but since it almost never is, we pay based on the smaller number.

Lots of folks equate a high power factor with efficiency, and that may or may not be true. If you could get a supply with a power factor of zero your PC would run for free.

Dunno about that, but I can tell you something about line power transformers......
The dang things have no fuses....crap....

I spent a summer when I was between jobs swapping electric meters for a utility so they could upgrade their system to automated reading of the customer's usage....

This involved donning a heavy canvas shirt and hard hat and leather gloves with rubber inners at 90f to swap the old meter with a new one........

Usually, you could install a pair of jumper cables to keep the house powered up whilst you were changing the meter, sometimes not...

But on at least one occasion, I (and a few other meter changers) got the thing wrong....and then you knew why they insisted on you wearing a full hard hat with face shield when you did the trick.......

One of the jumper leads fell off and shorted to the other pole........

Believe me, the impact of about 480 volts with almost unlimited amperage from the pole transformer will wake you up mighty quick, if it does not kill you...

I still remember the sound of the 'braaaaackkkkk' resounding throughout the neighborhood....and it was a very deep sound......not just a crackle...

And picked myself up off of the ground with shiny sparkles of copper all over my face shield.......

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

Hey Andy, where did you buy the AMP gauge? Where could I get one in the USA?

Newegg's got the Kill a Watt... Handy little meter that I have used to measure the power consumption on some of my rigs.....
Or this model... which appears to do some fancier power usage and cost calculations.....

I'm another happy Kill A Watt owner. The LaCrosse Cost Control also works, but I like the Kill A Watt better.

As the distinction between power the way the power company (and physics) defines it and the simple multiplication of Volts by Amps (neglecting adjustment for Power Factor a.k.a. phase angle) has been mentioned below. The number reported as power by both these meters is what the poster below called "True Power". If you like to see what the poster below called "Apparent Power", which at least in the USA is generally called VA, the Kill A Watt will show you that on an alternate display (but not the LaCrosse product). It will also show you Power Factor if you like. The difference between a PC using a Power Factor compensating supply and one not is quite impressive.

... and at the same time, it isn't.

When you are wiring a building (or sizing transformers at the utility) you have to use VA (the apparent power). Having a power-factor-compensated power supply means more systems on a branch circuit before you pop the breaker.

But we pay the utility for watts. If the power factor is 1, watts and VA are the same (current and voltage in phase), but since it almost never is, we pay based on the smaller number.

Lots of folks equate a high power factor with efficiency, and that may or may not be true. If you could get a supply with a power factor of zero your PC would run for free.

Dunno about that, but I can tell you something about line power transformers......
The dang things have no fuses....crap....

I spent a summer when I was between jobs swapping electric meters for a utility so they could upgrade their system to automated reading of the customer's usage....

This involved donning a heavy canvas shirt and hard hat and leather gloves with rubber inners at 90f to swap the old meter with a new one........

Usually, you could install a pair of jumper cables to keep the house powered up whilst you were changing the meter, sometimes not...

But on at least one occasion, I (and a few other meter changers) got the thing wrong....and then you knew why they insisted on you wearing a full hard hat with face shield when you did the trick.......

One of the jumper leads fell off and shorted to the other pole........

Believe me, the impact of about 480 volts with almost unlimited amperage from the pole transformer will wake you up mighty quick, if it does not kill you...

I still remember the sound of the 'braaaaackkkkk' resounding throughout the neighborhood....and it was a very deep sound......not just a crackle...

And picked myself up off of the ground with shiny sparkles of copper all over my face shield.......

And yes that sounds shocking "braaaaackkkkk" whoa, that's not a sound one wants to even imagine let alone hear. Joker exits in insulated boots any which way He can. wow!

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Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
The T1 Trust, T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, America's First HST