Perhaps the rest of the crew is correct. The purpose of SETI@home is not to have forums, and every minute I spend dealing with them is a minute diverted away from the science. I'm not ready to abandon them yet, but every time someone raises a stink because they didn't like where the lines were drawn I get closer to that point.

They are right. It's a science project. If there are forums at all, they should be very restrictive in posting scope.

A combined Staff Blog/Technical READ-ONLY forum for communication from the project to the participants that's too wordy to put on the front page.

A very SETI@Home-specific science forum. the current one is overrun with non-SETU@Home threads.

A Client Operations forum - reporting scienceclient operation problems. Send BOINC problems to the BOINC forums.

EVERYTHING ELSE is worthless gibber-jabber.

No. It's SOCIAL networking. Sure worthless gibber-jabber for some autistic, egocentric people, but at least as important as the science itself for people like me who like to find friends or at least like to communicate with people who have a kind of similar interests...
To me, even when a project (no matter if in real life or virtual) is very interesting and challenging - if I can't use it to meet friends, to meet people who also are interested in it, to share my thoughts about and around it with others - I soon lose the interest in this project. If I am forced to work on it alone without social networking, I feel like simmering in my own sauce, like doing nothing, like wasting time. I'm not such an autistic MENSA member who enjoy just their own company, just they themselves and their computers - I use this and other projects, as well as other boards,and places in the real life to actually meet people with similar interests in the first place.
Finding friends is worthless? Talking to people with similar interests just gibber-jabber? Sorry, pal - not for me.

I see you belong to a team. Isn't your (excellent) team site the place to meet and converse with your (virtual) friends?

I see you belong to a team. Isn't your (excellent) team site the place to meet and converse with your (virtual) friends?

It should be. It is with my team (and on some other team fora I'm a member as well).
But I like the social aspects, and some of the project admins also do so.

It doesn't have to surmount the science imho, but as long as it's fun and keeps some crunchers crunching - and as long as it's strictly opt-in, and crunchers will not be bothered with it by default - it's fine. As soon as it involves too much hassle, restrict it to numbers and science.

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Gruesse vom Saenger

For questions about Boinc look in the BOINC-Wiki

I see you belong to a team. Isn't your (excellent) team site the place to meet and converse with your (virtual) friends?

US NAVY..we use our own forum for 99% of our communication with each other.

Personally, I don't know why people would continue to post on a forum in which they aren't happy with.

I support closing the unrelated forums. It also means we could thin down the number of moderators choking the life out of the forum anyway. Regardless if these forums are closed or not...the participants are still discarded.

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Oops my latest post has been "elevated" if interested person please get into my posts list it is second from last. Thanks.

It's only yourself that can see your own modded posts, you can't see mine, I can't see yours.
But the mods can see them all ;)

Yeah it is funny forum. Ozzfan you can see your reply from my posts list.

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Mandtugai!

Perhaps the rest of the crew is correct. The purpose of SETI@home is not to have forums, and every minute I spend dealing with them is a minute diverted away from the science. I'm not ready to abandon them yet, but every time someone raises a stink because they didn't like where the lines were drawn I get closer to that point.

They are right. It's a science project. If there are forums at all, they should be very restrictive in posting scope.

A combined Staff Blog/Technical READ-ONLY forum for communication from the project to the participants that's too wordy to put on the front page.

A very SETI@Home-specific science forum. the current one is overrun with non-SETU@Home threads.

A Client Operations forum - reporting scienceclient operation problems. Send BOINC problems to the BOINC forums.

EVERYTHING ELSE is worthless gibber-jabber.

No. It's SOCIAL networking. Sure worthless gibber-jabber for some autistic, egocentric people, but at least as important as the science itself for people like me who like to find friends or at least like to communicate with people who have a kind of similar interests...
To me, even when a project (no matter if in real life or virtual) is very interesting and challenging - if I can't use it to meet friends, to meet people who also are interested in it, to share my thoughts about and around it with others - I soon lose the interest in this project. If I am forced to work on it alone without social networking, I feel like simmering in my own sauce, like doing nothing, like wasting time. I'm not such an autistic MENSA member who enjoy just their own company, just they themselves and their computers - I use this and other projects, as well as other boards,and places in the real life to actually meet people with similar interests in the first place.
Finding friends is worthless? Talking to people with similar interests just gibber-jabber? Sorry, pal - not for me.

I see you belong to a team. Isn't your (excellent) team site the place to meet and converse with your (virtual) friends?

I crunch as part of a team, that's true - but I belong to myself. I don't care what teams my friends are part of, and I don't like that concurrence thinking many teams obviously do show. And I not only converse with my friends (as you may see in my post history, especially here in the politics board). But here I do meet and converse with a lot of people with similar interests even if they have opposite opinions to my own ones. Do you only converse with your friends or do you also try to find other, more ones?

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Account frozen...

I'm not such an autistic MENSA member who enjoy just their own company, just they themselves and their computers

What exactly are you trying to say? I'm quite happy being a HERMIT... ;)

(To me, all this unnecessary drama is 'for the birds'. Oh wait, birds don't engage in that sort of behavior either.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Orgil:

I have read your response and I will not quote any of it (so that this message doesn't get deleted too for quoting deleted posts) so that you can read what I have to say.


What you have stated about being unfairly moded is purely perception based. Not every action against someone is due to nefarious means, though the victims would like you to believe that. The problem comes from the fact that people just don't like to be corrected, and if the general consensus is to complain loudly, that is what everyone will start doing. It has been my impression that most of the trouble makers on this board have made it acceptable to complain about the moderating, which gives new people the impression that it's perfectly acceptable to do publicly.

This should never be the case. Issues should always be discussed in private. There is a system in place to do this. They can email the Mod list. Failing that (and I understand many here feel it's a waste of time), they can always go to Eric. If that fails, they can keep going up to the top. It all depends on exactly how much energy they want to expend to "fix" being "wrong" (not that they are actually "wronged" because that's merely a perception in which, of course, they don't believe they are but in actuality they could very well be).

All that energy expended because of an internet forum? Think about it. It's just a forum. A great place to hang out. If you're moded, think about it and think about playing within the rules. If that's too hard or you simply don't like the rules, why not consider simply leaving? I know if I don't like something, I'm not going to fight that hard for it unless I rank it high on my important list of things in my life. I don't rank internet forums high on my important list of things in my life. I place things such as my job, my g/f, my hobbies all above conversing with faceless entities. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, rather I have more important things to do than to always be "fighting the system".


But none of this has given any good reason why moderating should be peer based upon everyone's opinions. I think the one thing these forums make clear is that everyone has a slightly different opinion on things. Having that many different opinions all having a hand (or "say") in moderating via some peer based system would make things a nightmare to actually moderate a board. You may as well not have any moderators at all (which I believe is what some want here). Then you would have total anarchy and no one to keep things under control.

In theory, a group of intelligent people always feel that they can police themselves and thus don't need such entities and want to get along on their own. In reality, people tend to form cliques and groups and wars always happen. People will find things to complain about if there's not enough drama in their life. They will create issues and ostracize others they dislike for petty reasons (this is for everyone, not any one specific group on these boards or any board for that matter).

Fact is, people will find reasons to dislike each other for any reason, be they political, personal, professional, religious or whatever. Personal bias creates a need for moderators to keep things calm and civil. Who protects them from the Mods? Well, first one must ask themselves if they are truly being persecuted by the mods and not just interjecting their own feelings into the situation (which we are all guilty of doing, myself included). If they still feel that way, then have their options of pushing to the top or removing themselves and finding something else to satisfy their time.

Bottom line is, why spend so much time fighting something you dislike when there's so much else out there in life to be happy about? Sure, we all like to talk to one another on these forums, but just because we can put a value on something that we like, doesn't mean we should put a value on things that do not deserve a value (like Cobblestones) when they are meant for fun (as with Cobblestones and these forums).

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Everything started from Seti the cool project that you can get connected with their network and become part of cool supercomputer. Well the initial expectation was really cool then it had a forum. Which is quite reasonable extension to improve your knowledge about supercomputing and science stuffs. But then there are all kinds of mess made both by members and mods. Off course if I choose to be silent about unfair acts here I can. But I am considering that there are not few healthy minded people around so the forum supposedly function well.

I am considering that both you and me got noticed here with not few people and your misjudgments too annoyed not few people. So as fair deal let's start a voting in this thread that the one who gets first 20 votes to leave would leave this forum.

For me I'll simply respect other's opinion and here if I get 20 peoples leave votes before you I'll leave. If you get 20 vote first you leave?

If Ozzfan agrees it then people begin vote let's see other's opinion. Fair and simple.

(1 rule not asking others or pm-ing to others for voting just let any random visitor to this thread would vote)

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Mandtugai!

For me I'll simply respect other's opinion and here if I get 20 peoples leave votes before you I'll leave. If you get 20 vote first you leave?

If Ozzfan agrees it then people begin vote let's see other's opinion. Fair and simple.

And what would a vote prove? It would simply prove who is more popular, but it would not be indicative of anything so I see no point in it.

1) I am a mod and I cannot leave.

2) I am not actually telling "you" specifically to leave. I don't want to see anyone leave, to be completely honest. I'd simply like everyone to get along, but reality seems to point toward that never happening around here with the current inhabitants and trouble makers.

3) Others opinions are taken with a grain of salt. I'm not here to see how many people approve of me or the job I'm doing. I'm here to do what I think is right and to do it as best I can. I don't need a peer review system of everyone telling me what to do, how to do it, and if I'm doing it wrong. I'm not a robot here to be programmed by everyone else. I am here to do what I want, how I want and the only one I have to please is Eric and the other Admins. As long as I feel I'm doing my job, I'm not going to worry about it. If Eric is unhappy and removes me (maybe from too many complaints), then that will be that. I will accept my fate that way, not through some popular vote process.

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I am considering that both you and me got noticed here with not few people and your misjudgments too annoyed not few people.

Are you holding me personally responsible for something? My "misjudgements" and "annoy"ing people? I haven't been in here in quite a while. I in fact have much larger fish to fry right now in my real life. I've reduced my own role to being very minimal so that I can take care of some personal issues that have cropped up. I don't see how you can hold me responsible for anything that has happened.

Care to tell me what "misjudgements" I've made that deserve such a vote to have me removed from here? Do I get a chance to defend any false allegations on things I have supposedly done to someone that caused a "misjudgement"?

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Orgil:
....
All that energy expended because of an internet forum? Think about it. It's just a forum. A great place to hang out. If you're moded, think about it and think about playing within the rules. If that's too hard or you simply don't like the rules, why not consider simply leaving? I know if I don't like something, I'm not going to fight that hard for it unless I rank it high on my important list of things in my life. I don't rank internet forums high on my important list of things in my life. I place things such as my job, my g/f, my hobbies all above conversing with faceless entities. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, rather I have more important things to do than to always be "fighting the system".


...

Bottom line is, why spend so much time fighting something you dislike when there's so much else out there in life to be happy about? Sure, we all like to talk to one another on these forums, but just because we can put a value on something that we like, doesn't mean we should put a value on things that do not deserve a value (like Cobblestones) when they are meant for fun (as with Cobblestones and these forums).

One thing on wasting time here and messing own real life my post count is 495 (in 2 years) yours is 3934 (in 5 years or you wasted at least twice longer time here than me), let's be common sensed or realistic. Bottom line is numbers are telling who is who. Again my way is fair and simple.

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Mandtugai!

One thing on wasting time here and messing own real life my post count is 495 (in 2 years)yours is 3934 (in 5 years or you wasted at least twice longer time here than me) which means you actually wasted far too long time in this virtual life than me, let's be common sensed or realistic. Bottom line is numbers are telling who is who. Again my way is fair and simple.

And that couldn't possibly mean that I've spent lots of time helping people in Q&A because I enjoy it, or that I've been here longer than you, could it?

Way to play with numbers to get an agenda across. Personally, I have no idea why you've taken to attacking me personally when all I did was offer an opinion. Now suddenly I'm someone who's "wasted" far too much time in a virtual world and that also somehow means I have no "common sensed" or that I am not "realistic".

I'm sorry, but your logic does not follow. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop attacking me personally now. I have done nothing to you other than offer an opinion. I did not drag out anything you've done specifically or point any fingers at you specifically. This is completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

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One thing on wasting time here and messing own real life my post count is 495 (in 2 years)yours is 3934 (in 5 years or you wasted at least twice longer time here than me), let's be common sensed or realistic. Bottom line is numbers are telling who is who. Again my way is fair and simple.

And that couldn't possibly mean that I've spent lots of time helping people in Q&A because I enjoy it, or that I've been here longer than you, could it?

Way to play with numbers to get an agenda across. Personally, I have no idea why you've taken to attacking me personally when all I did was offer an opinion. Now suddenly I'm someone who's "wasted" far too much time in a virtual world and that also somehow means I have no "common sensed" or that I am not "realistic".

I'm sorry, but your logic does not follow. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop attacking me personally now. I have done nothing to you other than offer an opinion. I did not drag out anything you've done specifically or point any fingers at you specifically. This is completely unnecessary and uncalled for.

Well remember our drama began by you picking up me?

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Mandtugai!

Orgil, you have raised some good points, but now you have resorted to what we are trying to solve.

Ozzfan, your responses have been very well thought out in this thread, and for that I thank you. You speak of the "us vs them" and "dismissive" attitudes, I see this happening by both users (volunteers) and moderators (volunteers).

Your words here:

If you're moded, think about it and think about playing within the rules. If that's too hard or you simply don't like the rules, why not consider simply leaving?

are basically saying "It's our way or the highway". If its too hard to play within the rules, get out? What about the mods who don't follow the rules? According to your post, mods can't just leave.

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Daniel

Well remember our drama began by you picking up me?

I didn't pick on you! I simply offered an opinion or counter point to something you said. If you can't handle a counter opinion and you consider it "picking" on, and your subsequent handling of what you refer to as "picking on" really shows something of your character. Try to remain professional and courteous instead of going right for the dirt.

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If you're moded, think about it and think about playing within the rules. If that's too hard or you simply don't like the rules, why not consider simply leaving?

are basically saying "It's our way or the highway". If its too hard to play within the rules, get out? What about the mods who don't follow the rules? According to your post, mods can't just leave.

No. I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that there's a proper chain of command to go through and a proper way to do things. How high up the chain you're willing to go depends on how much energy you have and how important you really feel all this is to you. My suggestion is that none of this should be that important to anyone because real life should be priority. Again, I enjoy forums too just as much as everyone else, but people need to stop and think more often instead of claiming biasness or prejudice simply because they don't like to be modded.

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Well remember our drama began by you picking up me?

I didn't pick on you! I simply offered an opinion or counter point to something you said. If you can't handle a counter opinion and you consider it "picking" on, and your subsequent handling of what you refer to as "picking on" really shows something of your character. Try to remain professional and courteous instead of going right for the dirt.

You mean this is professional and non dirt opinion?:

If in the institute majority is considering forum running is wrong then they are not respecting the international community which they themselves drew in. Any international project supposed to have forum to give a chance to all levels/types of people to get developed.

No project has to have a forum. It's completely optional and up to the developers/administrators/etc.

It has nothing to do with respect or lack thereof. It has everything to do with cliques, politicking and tantrums.

(Basically it is getting too boring so I'll stop to post here.)

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Mandtugai!

You mean this is professional and non dirt opinion?:

[quote]If in the institute majority is considering forum running is wrong then they are not respecting the international community which they themselves drew in. Any international project supposed to have forum to give a chance to all levels/types of people to get developed.

No project has to have a forum. It's completely optional and up to the developers/administrators/etc.

It has nothing to do with respect or lack thereof. It has everything to do with cliques, politicking and tantrums.

(Basically it is getting too boring so I'll stop to post here.)

Ummm.... Yes. That is a professional and "non dirt" opinion. It is also a fact too. No reasonable person would think that's unprofessional the way I responded.

To help you distinguish the difference, I will give an example of what would be a "dirt" and unprofessional opinion and what would have been wrong of me if I had responded this way:

The project doesn't need forums! They're filled with stupid, ignorant, outrageous people that don't deserve a place to speak their minds!

That would have been the wrong way to respond.

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This thread looks like the Pope trying to convert the Grand Mufti and vice versa...common sense is in purgatory.

...I think I'll remain in the professional pagan corner until the dust clears.

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Account frozen...