One way to punish illegal immigrants is to sterilize them (except the ones who don't have any children anywhere), even if they are to be deported. In general they have too many children and have them at too young an age.

You appear to have some serious issues that even transcends a bad joke.

Get help.

You're the one who needs help. Everybody knows that people who have too many children are offending the ones who don't have so many or have none.

Never read so much nationalist crap like here on boards with rather international users.

Your big companies are allowed to spoil economies all over the world, your army is allowed to invade other countries - and poor people of other countries should be not allowed to work where jobs are offered?
Okay, if I were in charge, I would convince all employers 1) to pay no less than standard wages, and 2) to prefer local workers when employing.

OK, what happens when you cannot convince them of either? I mean, you cannot convince me of that, ever, unless you pay the difference yourself. What will you do when they simply ignore you because they couldn't care less what you think?

1) I will never pay anymore than what the market will bear, and if the person in front of me is poor at bargaining, they will make less than they would have. If they are good, they will make more. 2) I won't place any importance whatsoever on the geography of the workers, I will only hire those that can do the best job for me at the price the job is worth, no matter where they are.

But I also would barely punish the people who search a job to survive, I rather would punish those hard instead who prefer foreign workers to local workers when offering jobs & paying them substandard wages for their hard work.

Yep, Thorin is going to deal out the punishment. And that, once again, is why you are going to have to build a wall. Because as soon as you do, they will leave and come to where I am, where I will reward them for the behavior that you will punish.

Better build that wall high. Oh, and point the machine guns inward.

"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

Never read so much nationalist crap like here on boards with rather international users.

Your big companies are allowed to spoil economies all over the world, your army is allowed to invade other countries - and poor people of other countries should be not allowed to work where jobs are offered?
Okay, if I were in charge, I would convince all employers 1) to pay no less than standard wages, and 2) to prefer local workers when employing.

OK, what happens when you cannot convince them of either? I mean, you cannot convince me of that, ever, unless you pay the difference yourself. What will you do when they simply ignore you because they couldn't care less what you think?

1) I will never pay anymore than what the market will bear, and if the person in front of me is poor at bargaining, they will make less than they would have. If they are good, they will make more. 2) I won't place any importance whatsoever on the geography of the workers, I will only hire those that can do the best job for me at the price the job is worth, no matter where they are.

But I also would barely punish the people who search a job to survive, I rather would punish those hard instead who prefer foreign workers to local workers when offering jobs & paying them substandard wages for their hard work.

Yep, Thorin is going to deal out the punishment. And that, once again, is why you are going to have to build a wall. Because as soon as you do, they will leave and come to where I am, where I will reward them for the behavior that you will punish.

Better build that wall high. Oh, and point the machine guns inward.

Now I know what your problem is...

Poverty isn't "created" Frenchie, it's the result of those unwilling to do what it takes to get ahead in life...like LEGALLY immigrating to another country in search of jobs.

Poverty isn't "created" Frenchie, it's the result of those unwilling to do what it takes to get ahead in life...like LEGALLY immigrating to another country in search of jobs.

I was waiting for the great neo-con comeback answer to raise it's lame little head.
Blame poverty on the poor.
What an insightful mind to fall back on that old line.

Hey Rush and SmashbrainR
Any thoughts on restrictions when it concerns human mobility and unrestrained movement of capital?

This ought to be good.

I thought everyone knew that us people who have children get resentful of all those people who have never had children but still expect other people's children to subsidise them through their taxes when they get old.

Hey Rush and SmashbrainR
Any thoughts on restrictions when it concerns human mobility and unrestrained movement of capital?

This ought to be good.

The conversation also went on to the actions being taken recently by the international investor class.

Doesn't it seem strange to everyone that governments are enforcing, with ever increasing hysteria, national borders while at the same time lecturing the working class about the need to eliminate borders when it comes to economics?

What purpose is being served by enforcing the borders in the case of human mobility while removing restrictions on the movement of capital?

If one follows this to the obvious conclusion, we find that it appears that the investor class, or capitalists, seem to be creating a situation where humans are trapped in regions of low wage earnings and capital is free to move into that same region to exploit the wage situation.

I believe the uproar over illegal immigrants is not the real story, rather, it's a means of gathering support from the masses in containing people inside the low wages regions created by the capitalists.

Stronger enforcement of borders is simply a means of reducing mobility from within created zones of impoverishment.

I would argue that everyone shouldn't get angry at those trying to escape poverty but focus your attention and anger on those creating it.

did you just set higher goals for yourself and make sacrifices in order to achieve those goals?

Well, one example would be in the case of places that have socialized medicine, it's to prevent the system from being bankrupted. Most simply because that system isn't free.

It's not possible to "create poverty," it's only possible to create wealth.

You feel border enforcement on human movement will protect healthcare?

How does that work if capital is permitted to flow wherever it desires?
Don't you think the money guys will just up and move their capital?

As for socialized healthcare not being free...who ever claimed it was?
Nothing is free. The healthcare must be paid for, just as everything else.
The difference being, costs are socialized (shared by all for the benefit of all) not placed on the individual.

Life is too valuable to be left to the marketplace and it's decisions based on ability to pay.

You truly believe this?
Try telling this to the countries shackled by IMF policies.

By selling off all public assets and siphoning the profits out of countries, poverty IS CREATED.
I don't need some speel about the impossibility of creating a negative because it is possible to create a vacuum where all wealth is removed by the greed of the controllers of the IMF and World Bank.

The conversation also went on to the actions being taken recently by the international investor class.

Doesn't it seem strange to everyone that governments are enforcing, with ever increasing hysteria, national borders while at the same time lecturing the working class about the need to eliminate borders when it comes to economics?

What purpose is being served by enforcing the borders in the case of human mobility while removing restrictions on the movement of capital?

Well, one example would be in the case of places that have socialized medicine, it's to prevent the system from being bankrupted. Most simply because that system isn't free.

If one follows this to the obvious conclusion, we find that it appears that the investor class, or capitalists, seem to be creating a situation where humans are trapped in regions of low wage earnings and capital is free to move into that same region to exploit the wage situation.

Yay, the "investor class" now equals "capitalists." How incisive. And yes, any rational concern is always looking to cut costs, everywhere. On labor, materials, expenses, everything. Giving people who otherwise would not have jobs is part of that process. It helps raise the standard of living for those who need the income, and it raises the standard of living in the original market by lowering costs and bringing more goods and services to a greater number of people.

I believe the uproar over illegal immigrants is not the real story, rather, it's a means of gathering support from the masses in containing people inside the low wages regions created by the capitalists.

Heh heh.

Stronger enforcement of borders is simply a means of reducing mobility from within created zones of impoverishment.

I would argue that everyone shouldn't get angry at those trying to escape poverty but focus your attention and anger on those creating it.

It's not possible to "create poverty," it's only possible to create wealth. If you think that is so easy, then you should be doing it. The UAW should be doing it and selling cars and really sticking it to GM and BMW. All those poor people in the DPRK should just be creating wealth because jeebusknows they've got more poverty than they could ever hope for.

You truly believe this?
Try telling this to the countries shackled by IMF policies.

No, because if they wanted hard currency loans, they are subject to the rules of those who are willing to lend it to them.

If they didn't want to borrow under such restrictions, they should have just created all the wealth they needed and dispensed with the IMF all together. Right?

Why didn't they do that? Why didn't they just create this wealth?

By selling off all public assets and siphoning the profits out of countries, poverty IS CREATED.
I don't need some speel about the impossibility of creating a negative because it is possible to create a vacuum where all wealth is removed by the greed of the controllers of the IMF and World Bank.

Well, then maybe the gov'ts in question should have just created wealth instead of borrowing money. What were they waiting for?

They want to cut costs? Why don't they begin in the top levels, like CEOs or something?

Sure it IS possible to create poverty, actually those who create wealth for a few at the costs of others do make those others poor.

Do you really believe the people in Africa and North Korea have chosen to starve?

Do you really believe the majority of Indians chose to live of less than a Dollar per day while some few there don't know which place they shall put their millions?

Do you really think Mexican people leave their families and maybe even their tiny fields heading for the States just for the adventure of it? They have no choice! It's either leaving the family and go where jobs are offered and work there (even illegally) or watch their beloved ones starve while starving themselves.

Capitalism, the system you are so adoring, made them poor enough to take such desperate measures.

Do you really think that people take up temp jobs or other jobs with substandard wages because they agree with them? They take them because THEY DO HAVE NO CHOICE! I know enough engineers and people with master degrees - even with excellent certificates - who work in temp companies or as burger-flippers or as waiters, just to have a job, just to not live on welfare, because THERE IS no job according to their qualifications here for them.

"Capitalism," as you use it there, is the system they are coming to, to find jobs to make their lives better.