According to a story on the BBC upgrading to the latest version of the OS can turn the Firewall OFF if it had previously been ON. There is also no warning.

Leopard upgrade hits Mac firewall.

I'm not a mac user but thought you should be informed.

Andy

According to a story on the BBC upgrading to the latest version of the OS can turn the Firewall OFF if it had previously been ON. There is also no warning.

Leopard upgrade hits Mac firewall.

I'm not a mac user but thought you should be informed.

Interesting bit of media scaremongering and all the more interesting for the very "Windows-esq" view taken of what is "needed"...

This quote in there sums it up nicely:

"However, in practice they just don't seem to become real-world problems," he added. "The old wisdom still stands: if you want to avoid viruses and worms, get a Mac."


Now for the really hard part to follow:

No OS actually needs or even should need a 'firewall' for reliance on security.

Just as with a Mac, you can safely run a Linux or a unix or a BSD system without any firewall whatsoever.

Note also that if you are not running any 'internet services', there is nothing for the internet to attack in the first place!


So, in short, if you are running Windows, then yes a firewall is pretty much essential to try to plug the worst of the various 'holes in the OS'.

No other OSes require a firewall as far as I know.


Still a fun article. It will test the Mac Marketing Machine to twist that one as another ADVANTAGE for using a Mac.

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Well common sense qould tell you that things would be reset if your installing a new OS. Only a muppet wouldn't check.

There making such a fuss out of this its rediculous!

Why would they reset the firewall to off? Any sane person would have it programmed in to be on by default, yes? This reminds me of microsoft: leaving random stuff on or off by default. This just sucks...

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Well common sense qould tell you that things would be reset if your installing a new OS. Only a muppet wouldn't check.

There making such a fuss out of this its rediculous!

I had the same impression when I read the article.

When updating an OS, I ALWAYS double check my config. settings and user preference settings, STARTING w/ log-in, Security/Firewall and wireless ( re: Airport for non-Appleheads).

To assume that everything remains perfect and unaffected in ANY OS install/upgrade is naive at best, and borderline negligent behavior if an experienced user.

Have yet to come across a major OS upgrade that didn't scramble an egg.....somewhere.

Agreed: A little common-sense would have been better applied in these articles, instead of "shock" IMO.

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Why would they reset the firewall to off? Any sane person would have it programmed in to be on by default, yes? This reminds me of microsoft: leaving random stuff on or off by default. This just sucks...

Simple: On a *nix system that is a client-only system, a firewall is completely superfluous (not needed, additional 'fluff' that is a hindrence). There are no 'open ports' there for anything on the internet to try to attack in the first place. A little like trying to shout at someone whom is completely deaf.

Agreed that on a Windows system, a firewall is considered to be pretty much essential. That is NOT the case for a Mac or for Linux.

Note also that there are no live viruses for Macs or for Linux...

So perhaps not so 'suckie' as you might first believe.

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Why would they reset the firewall to off? Any sane person would have it programmed in to be on by default, yes? This reminds me of microsoft: leaving random stuff on or off by default. This just sucks...

Simple: On a *nix system that is a client-only system, a firewall is completely superfluous (not needed, additional 'fluff' that is a hindrance). There are no 'open ports' there for anything on the internet to try to attack in the first place. A little like trying to shout at someone whom is completely deaf.

Agreed that on a Windows system, a firewall is considered to be pretty much essential. That is NOT the case for a Mac or for Linux.

Note also that there are no live viruses for Macs or for Linux...

So perhaps not so 'suckie' as you might first believe.

Regards,
Martin

Well I guess what the HardOCP reported on Wednesday October 31, 2007 is fiction then:

Mac OS Malware Targets Porn Surfers So who says the MAC has no malware? The MAC just wasn't a big enough target until recently, Of course with growth in the user base comes attention from the Malware makers It seems. The MAC is growing and others are watching and from what I've read, They see the MAC as a vulnerable target or conquest. Remember Martin If the Windows OS were a lot smaller and some Other OS were Dominant then some Other OS would be the Target. So count Yourself lucky, As no OS is ever going to be Perfect as It hasn't been made/invented yet and there will always be flaws and/or parts to be improved upon to get one closer to that goal.


No flames or disrespect was meant of course, It's just an observation on My part.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

Well I guess what the HardOCP reported on Wednesday October 31, 2007 is fiction then:

Mac OS Malware Targets Porn Surfers So who says the MAC has no malware? The MAC just wasn't a big enough target until recently, Of course with growth in the user base comes attention from the Malware makers It seems. The MAC is growing and others are watching and from what I've read, They see the MAC as a vulnerable target or conquest. Remember Martin If the Windows OS were a lot smaller and some Other OS were Dominant then some Other OS would be the Target. So count Yourself lucky, As no OS is ever going to be Perfect as It hasn't been made/invented yet and there will always be flaws and/or parts to be improved upon to get one closer to that goal.


No flames or disrespect was meant of course, It's just an observation on My part.

There's a world of difference between malware and viruses. A perfect firewall (were there such a thing) could not protect you if you deliberately download an app. By definition a virus spreads without you having to do anything to help it - other than forgetting to protect yourself either by having a firewall or running a nix-based system.

F.

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Well I guess what the HardOCP reported on Wednesday October 31, 2007 is fiction then:

Mac OS Malware Targets Porn Surfers So who says the MAC has no malware? The MAC just wasn't a big enough target until recently, Of course with growth in the user base comes attention from the Malware makers It seems. The MAC is growing and others are watching and from what I've read, They see the MAC as a vulnerable target or conquest. Remember Martin If the Windows OS were a lot smaller and some Other OS were Dominant then some Other OS would be the Target. So count Yourself lucky, As no OS is ever going to be Perfect as It hasn't been made/invented yet and there will always be flaws and/or parts to be improved upon to get one closer to that goal.


No flames or disrespect was meant of course, It's just an observation on My part.

There's a world of difference between malware and viruses. A perfect firewall (were there such a thing) could not protect you if you deliberately download an app. By definition a virus spreads without you having to do anything to help it - other than forgetting to protect yourself either by having a firewall or running a nix-based system.

F.

Malware includes viruses, Trojan horses, worms, etc. The wikipedia and others agree on this, I'll even throw in the Google search I made too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware
http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci762187,00.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=malware+definition&ie=utf-8

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

There's a world of difference between malware and viruses. A perfect firewall (were there such a thing) could not protect you if you deliberately download an app. By definition a virus spreads without you having to do anything to help it - other than forgetting to protect yourself either by having a firewall or running a nix-based system.

F.

Malware includes viruses, Trojan horses, worms, etc. The wikipedia and others agree on this, I'll even throw in the Google search I made too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware
http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci762187,00.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=malware+definition&ie=utf-8

OK! Point taken...

However, you were the one who introduced malware to the discussion. My point stands that the examples you were quoting had no relevance in a debate about firewalls and Martin's post referred only to viruses.

Please understand, this is not a personal attack - just trying to clarify the issue.

F.

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There's a world of difference between malware and viruses. A perfect firewall (were there such a thing) could not protect you if you deliberately download an app. By definition a virus spreads without you having to do anything to help it - other than forgetting to protect yourself either by having a firewall or running a nix-based system.

F.

Malware includes viruses, Trojan horses, worms, etc. The wikipedia and others agree on this, I'll even throw in the Google search I made too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware
http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci762187,00.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=malware+definition&ie=utf-8

OK! Point taken...

However, you were the one who introduced malware to the discussion. My point stands that the examples you were quoting had no relevance in a debate about firewalls and Martin's post referred only to viruses.

Please understand, this is not a personal attack - just trying to clarify the issue.

F.

I didn't think It was a personal attack, I was just trying to correct ML1 as He said that there are no viruses on the MAC and so I pointed out what has been pointed out by others and so It does have relevance, I could go Google that too If You'd like(relevance). And I am quite well acquainted with different OSes across different brands of computers both open and closed OSes(dabbled with a friends TI-99-4A once, talk about a computer that could have used some better cooling), But then I've been using different computers since the late 70's when computers were just starting to be used in the home and It's been a long 28 years so far, I even contemplated buying and building a homebrew Heathkit S100 bus computer back then too, But went towards something that was easier to do back then as My soldering skill is not so good.

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The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

There's a world of difference between malware and viruses. A perfect firewall (were there such a thing) could not protect you if you deliberately download an app. By definition a virus spreads without you having to do anything to help it - other than forgetting to protect yourself either by having a firewall or running a nix-based system.

F.

Malware includes viruses, Trojan horses, worms, etc. The wikipedia and others agree on this, I'll even throw in the Google search I made too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware
http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci762187,00.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=malware+definition&ie=utf-8

OK! Point taken...

However, you were the one who introduced malware to the discussion. My point stands that the examples you were quoting had no relevance in a debate about firewalls and Martin's post referred only to viruses.

Please understand, this is not a personal attack - just trying to clarify the issue.

F.

I didn't think It was a personal attack, I was just trying to correct ML1 as He said that there are no viruses on the MAC and so I pointed out what has been pointed out by others and so It does have relevance, I could go Google that too If You'd like(relevance). And I am quite well acquainted with different OSes across different brands of computers both open and closed OSes(dabbled with a friends TI-99-4A once, talk about a computer that could have used some better cooling), But then I've been using different computers since the late 70's when computers were just starting to be used in the home and It's been a long 28 years so far, I even contemplated buying and building a homebrew Heathkit S100 bus computer back then too, But went towards something that was easier to do back then as My soldering skill is not so good.

Hiya,

I'm not trying to stir but even *nix has viruses too :-)

We're all in the same boat, just some are 'leakier' than others.

If you're a Windows user like me, you should read that as "Get me a bucket to bail this baby out!" :-)

Have a nice one,

Keith

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I'm a Apple Mac user who uses Apache to host a personal website on my home PC. I INTENTIONALLY have disabled ALL my firewalls. I have seen attacks that are targeted at Windows boxes in my web server logs. So far, knock on wood, I have not had any noticeable problems with not having a firewall enabled on a Mac for around 2 years now. I have implicit protection in that I do not have a static IP. If a hacker finds my IP it will likely change in a day or so and they will have to find me again. My site is not business related so there is no real reason to attack me anyway.

<snip>
My site is not business related so there is no real reason to attack me anyway.

Alas- I believe the majority of the attacks are attempts to create "zombies", it doesn't matter who or what.
PS- I agree about Linux & Mac however, mine are pretty much locked down as to what ports will answer (unlike Windows which by default allows remote access, etc).

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Boinc Button Abuser In Training >My Shrubbers<

... I didn't think It was a personal attack, I was just trying to correct ML1 as He said that there are no viruses on the MAC and so I pointed out ...

Trying to head off some sort of holy crusade of presumably the besieged M-Softies... (OK, sort of :-) )

(NB: Please read all my words typed rather than every few words...)

I have never said that there have never been any form of virus for whatever OSes, including *nix (and Linux).

HOWEVER: Note that the only (one or just two) famous 'attacks' on *nix systems were long ago, completely new and never before seen at that time, and the propagation was that of a worm (not viral).

*nix and the affected applications were very quickly fixed so those attacks could not be repeated.

And indeed, 30 or so years later and there are still no live viruses active on *nix systems, including Linux and Macs.

As with any OS, you can have exploits against applications. Even there, *nix tends to limit the damage.

Meanwhile to my knowledge, the later series of Microsoft OSes remain vulnerable to various actively in the wild viruses and worms and trojans. The present 'fix' is to install and activate firewall and anti-virus software, and hope that those 'add-ons' catch everything.

I would also argue that Windows is a soft target for malware, and gives the easiest returns for any abuse.

*nix gets attacked constantly, and there is very high kudos for anyone whom manages to breach the security. However, any problems found get fixed very quickly. Also, there is ferocious peer review for Open Source and Linux that tends to avoid problems before they are created.


Regardless: It's all down to what works best for you.

Then again, there's a Windows related "non"-problem that I'm involved with that I know will now take two people the best part of today to fix (or rather, work-around). So why Windows even though I consider other OSes to be 'better'? For this example it's likely mainly a combination of dinosaur inertia and simple blatent lock-in. Oh yes, the non-problem for today can be considered one or both of poor design or a side effect of lock-in, depending on view...

I just see it as rather strange how I can show people how Linux, Macs, other OSes, work effectively and with peace of mind, and yet in some there is a sort of blind desperation to see "Only Microsoft". Is their Marketing so totally pervasive?

There does seem to be a growing 'sensitivity' about viruses... On that count I can sympathise that Microsoft have got a near impossible task to try to morph their systems and their user expectations to something that is not so inherently vulnerable to abuse.


Please correct where I am wrong. (Always happy to learn.)

Regards,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)