All I know is, that IC's don't work anymore, once you let the smoke out! ;)

---

Keep on crunching, all...
SETI@Home Forever!

___Tklop (Step-Founder, U.S. Air Force team)

The experiences you have shared with us all have been very valuable, and we all thank you, however, I detect an unnecessary hint of defensiveness!
I *didn't* imply that only idiots mess around with phase change - I'd play with it too if I had the time and the money because I like toys!

No Andy, I was not trying to be defensive. And I did end my post by saying your opinion was correct.
I was just saying that my experimentation with phase change is for the fun/sport of it, not because I was thinking that it was the best way to get the most out of my computer base. And to clarify for onlookers that are thinking about it, that it is not a cheap undertaking and has it's risks to the hardware.
That's all. No harm, no foul, my friend. S'all good.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

The experiences you have shared with us all have been very valuable, and we all thank you, however, I detect an unnecessary hint of defensiveness!
I *didn't* imply that only idiots mess around with phase change - I'd play with it too if I had the time and the money because I like toys!

IMO, phase change cooling is really a waste of time. Sure you might be able to get an extra 10-20% above what you can achieve with air, but for the cost of the cooler, and the *significant* power to run it, you can get 100% improvement by just getting another machine instead!

If you have read most of my posts on the subject of phase cooling, you will see that I have never reccomended it to anybody as a cost effective means of increasing computing power. It absolutely is not!
Expensive to buy, expensive to run, and expensive to replace things that go poof when you push too far.
Phase cooling is about the sporting aspect of OCing. Seeing just how far you can push one particular rig. It's a hobby. I am not using phase cooling because I think it's the best bang for the buck, but to see just how fast I can get the rig to run.
Your opinion is correct.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

IMO, phase change cooling is really a waste of time. Sure you might be able to get an extra 10-20% above what you can achieve with air, but for the cost of the cooler, and the *significant* power to run it, you can get 100% improvement by just getting another machine instead!

Thanks to all for your response, and congratulation to msatter.

I am not concerned yet with over clocking. Running QX6850 at stock speed with
4 cores and 80% of CPU time. Temperature is at around 60-65 C with stock fan. Need a better cooling solution to play with over clocking. I did not decided what to use for
CPU cooling. Any recommendations?

I have two ideas one is inexpensive and one is a bit more costly, As It depends on how hard and far You want to push Your PC and how consistent Your overclocking will become.

1. Tuniq Tower(Heard It's Difficult to install), It's inexpensive @ $50-80.00 before shipping.
2. Ultra ChillTEC LGA775 cpu cooler(Easy to install, Should cool that cpu really good), It's about $140.00 or so before shipping at xoxide.com of course(xoxide is good), Try Google to find one elsewhere if You want.
3. You could do what Mark does[msattler our new Fearless Leader ;)], But Phase Change is really costly, But really, Really COLD!
You'll have to remove Your motherboard no matter what of course to install any of the 3 above or just any cpu cooler of any type, That I know of. :D

I use Vigor Monsoon II cpu coolers on My Quads and the are easy to maintain and give very good overclocking results and so should the Ultra and I have one installed & waiting(The Ultra and the Vigor are about the same, The Vigor is difficult to install and unlike the Ultra brand cooler, The Vigor still doesn't have a universal cooler yet), I just don't have the money for the ram yet or the extra money for the Electricity as I have to save up money for other purposes right now.

---

My Amazon Wishlist
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's

I know.. in the web you can read a lot of stupid stings..
..I read that if you increase the voltage to this and this.. then the CPU will stay 2 years at your side..
I think it was at a board they talked about 'an old' Pentium 4 at 1.4 voltage.. (I'm sorry, I cannot remember correct!)

So if I would like to OC the QX6700 to ~ 3.4 GHz (it's possible with aircooling, you said.. ;-) how much voltage I must use.. (stock 1.35.. maybe 1.4 ?) (I know, I don't compare with the Pentium 4 ;-)

..maybe I go with water-cooling..?
There is nothing other between air and phased, or? ;-)
..somebody read that the PC 'died' because of 'waterfall' inside of the case?

I read.. the watercooling use 'Tepid-water'.. so it cannot transfer electricity. ..like I said.. you can read sometime nonsense in the web?
Or it's right?? ;-)


BTW.
..I had understand it well? For the life of the CPU it's more important the cooling and not the voltage?!

For the life of the cpu, cooling is king, but that does not mean that vcore does not have it's limits. If you want to play it safe, you want to run the minimum vcore that you can at the overclock you want to achieve. And the cooler has to be able to dissipate the extra heat generated by both the increased cpu frequency and the increased vcore.

Assuming you have a good cpu cooler in place, the best way to start is at stock voltage. Set the ram speed at 1:1 if your bios allows it. Slowly raise the fsb until you reach a point where the system becomes unstable. Then raise your vcore by the smallest amount your bios allows. See if this make the system stable again. If it does, raise the fsb a little bit more. If it does not, raise the vcore one more notch. Repeat process. And this is very oversimplified....there are many bios settings that interact.

The Core 2 architecture will achieve a very surprising OC at stock voltage in most cases. If you can accept the best OC you get at stock voltage, you are in little danger of decreasing the life of the cpu or mobo to any great degree.

What will happen is you will reach a point of diminishing returns. In other words, each increase in vcore will get you less and less increase in cpu speed.
At that point you are starting to push the limits. And that is where the cpu cooler usually becomes the limiting factor. Both cpu speed and increased vcore raise the power dissipation of the cpu, and together they will generate a lot of heat. The better the cpu cooler, the further you can push things, but you are still stressing everything much more than you were with that nice little OC at stock voltage.

@daveski...
Here is a review from Anandtech (generally well respected and impartial) that has a couple of charts with cpu cooler performance. They did not include my beloved TTBT, but I think there may be some newer designs that are performing very well these days.
You can always spend some time in the various OCing forums and see what others are having good results with.

Good luck with your OCs, everybody.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

Thanks to all for your response, and congratulation to msatter.

I am not concerned yet with over clocking. Running QX6850 at stock speed with
4 cores and 80% of CPU time. Temperature is at around 60-65 C with stock fan. Need a better cooling solution to play with over clocking. I did not decided what to use for
CPU cooling. Any recommendations?

The favorite aircooler for msattler (he is the 'OC-Guru' here ;-) it's the 'Thermaltake Big Typhoon'..

(He used the old one.. the new one is little bit different from the architecture (like I know))

My ~ 478 MHz OC is running with Intel Boxed heatsink and fan..
He is ~ 3 °C hotter without changing the voltage.
The PC is in the basement of the house, now in October ~ 16 °C room-temp..
So much free space with 'aircoolingoverclocking'.. :-)

---

Thanks to all for your response, and congratulation to msatter.

I am not concerned yet with over clocking. Running QX6850 at stock speed with
4 cores and 80% of CPU time. Temperature is at around 60-65 C with stock fan. Need a better cooling solution to play with over clocking. I did not decided what to use for
CPU cooling. Any recommendations?

---

I know.. in the web you can read a lot of stupid stings..
..I read that if you increase the voltage to this and this.. then the CPU will stay 2 years at your side..
I think it was at a board they talked about 'an old' Pentium 4 at 1.4 voltage.. (I'm sorry, I cannot remember correct!)

So if I would like to OC the QX6700 to ~ 3.4 GHz (it's possible with aircooling, you said.. ;-) how much voltage I must use.. (stock 1.35.. maybe 1.4 ?) (I know, I don't compare with the Pentium 4 ;-)

..maybe I go with water-cooling..?
There is nothing other between air and phased, or? ;-)
..somebody read that the PC 'died' because of 'waterfall' inside of the case?

I read.. the watercooling use 'Tepid-water'.. so it cannot transfer electricity. ..like I said.. you can read sometime nonsense in the web?
Or it's right?? ;-)


BTW.
..I had understand it well? For the life of the CPU it's more important the cooling and not the voltage?!

---

Mike ... congrats on the Mod nomination.

---

It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

What's significant here is that your motherboard hung up its clogs before the processor!

Some perspective:
15 years ago I had a 486 and it was my pride and joy.
Do I miss it now? Could I even use it meaningfully now?

Todays processors are hundreds of times quicker.
In 15 year's time god knows where we'll be.

If you fry it, then you get another one. It'll be a tenth of the price then,
by which time you can get a faster processor instead, and so it goes on.

Processors are resilient things, and you have to be either really stupid or
an extreme overclocker to break one!

Very true!! I have posted more than once that I have NEVER toasted a cpu by overclocking..I am sure it can happen if the cpu happens to be the weak link, but it is much more common, at least in my OCing experience, to have the mobo either turn to toast or lunch the bios.
Most current cpus will shut themselves down before terminal thermal damage occurs if the cooling fails or is insufficient. Mobos, on the other hand, do not have such protection on all parts of the circuitry.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

What's significant here is that your motherboard hung up its clogs before the processor!

Some perspective:
15 years ago I had a 486 and it was my pride and joy.
Do I miss it now? Could I even use it meaningfully now?

Todays processors are hundreds of times quicker.
In 15 year's time god knows where we'll be.

If you fry it, then you get another one. It'll be a tenth of the price then,
by which time you can get a faster processor instead, and so it goes on.

Processors are resilient things, and you have to be either really stupid or
an extreme overclocker to break one!

I saw a 'Mathematical formula' because of OC and life of the CPU..

Somebody know it?
..and could post it here?

I OC without changing of voltage.. because I'm afraid because of the life of the CPU..
Or how much I'll reduce it with this too?

If I remember correct, the CPU were produced for a life of 15 years.. or?
(of course @ stock speed!! :-)

Do you really think you will be running your main computer in 15 years? Or 10? Or 5? When you push overclocking to the limit, you are not concerned with the longevity of the cpu or mobo. It's a sport, and as with all sports that push equipment or human capacities to the limits, there are risks.

If you want to play it safe, there is little risk to your computer by taking a nice conservative overclock as long as the cpu cooling is up to the task. Any overclock that is done at stock vcore is not likely to damage either the cpu or mobo, as long as you keep an eye on cpu temps and the cpu cooler is up to the task.
But if you want to push things further, if you want to play the game, you have to assume the risk. I just cooked a P5K Deluxe mobo because it couldn't keep up with the power demands I was placing on it by extreme OCing of my quad. So it goes. I played the game, I lost the mobo.

I am back in the game, pushing it to the limits again...back on the horse so to speak. It could go up in smoke again tomorrow. Would I stop at that point? Ask the kitties. They know Dad is OCD about this overclocking thingy.

It all depends on what your mindset really is. If you are concerned with the investment you have made in your computer lasting 5 years or more, then you shouldn't be taking it to the track and drag racing with it. If you want the most you can get out of that little piece of silicon, then go for it, but don't be too surprised or complain too much if something goes poof. It can and does happen depending on just how far you push things. I mean, how could I possibly get really ticked off when my 2.4ghz processor running at 3.9ghz+ goes off into the woods? Complain a bit, get frustrated a bit, yes. But blame anybody but myself whilst knowing what I am asking it to do..not at all.

And there is nothing wrong with either way of thinking. It's all in what you want out of it.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

I saw a 'Mathematical formula' because of OC and life of the CPU..
..I cannot remember.. :-(
Somebody know it?
..and could post it here?

I OC without changing the voltage.. because I'm afraid because of the life of the CPU..
Or how much I'll reduce it with this too?

If I remember correct, the CPU were produced for a life of 15 years.. or?
(of course @ stock speed!! :-)

---

I built my new computer with Intel QX6850 quad core, but SETI reports and uses 2 CPU's

Nice PC!! :-)


BTW.
Why you don't use opt. app?

Thanks for your approval of my PC. :-)
Where do you get opt. app?

You can download the app you need from Crunch3r's site. If you need help selecting the correct app or installing it, post back and someone will help you.

Yes, like msattler said.. :-)


BTW.
I have the QX6700-2.66 and he is running @ 3.14 GHz without changing the voltage..

You have practice with overclocking?
It would be interesting how much you can overclock your QX6850-3.0 without changing the voltage..
3.48 GHz?
With which MHz and Multiplier he is running at stock?
333 x 9 ?


BTW.#2
Congrats to msattler to the 'mod-status' and that your Phased-Quad is running again!! :-)

Thanks to you too for the congrats.

If I am correct, the stock speed for the QX6850 is 333 x 9, but being an 'X' series, it is unlocked, and the multi can be set higher or lower.
If you wanna see what the cpu can do, raise the multi and lower the fsb to take it easy on the NB and ram. Then, when you see what the top speed of the cpu seems to be, experiment with lower multis on the cpu, which will allow you to get the fsb and ram bandwidth up.
All of this depends on cpu cooling and vcore adjustments, of course.

EDIT....on most of my overclocks, I have found that best aggregate cpu speed and bandwidth are achieved on the native multi of the processor, but this does not always hold true.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

I built my new computer with Intel QX6850 quad core, but SETI reports and uses 2 CPU's

Nice PC!! :-)


BTW.
Why you don't use opt. app?

Thanks for your approval of my PC. :-)
Where do you get opt. app?

You can download the app you need from Crunch3r's site. If you need help selecting the correct app or installing it, post back and someone will help you.

Yes, like msattler said.. :-)


BTW.
I have the QX6700-2.66 and he is running @ 3.14 GHz without changing the voltage..

You have practice with overclocking?
It would be interesting how much you can overclock your QX6850-3.0 without changing the voltage..
3.48 GHz?
With which MHz and Multiplier he is running at stock?
333 x 9 ?


BTW.#2
Congrats to msattler to the 'mod-status' and that your Phased-Quad is running again!! :-)

---

msattler - They made you a forum moderator!

Congrats. I also see the RAC is coming back up. I guess the C2Q is stable now?

Getting close...must have it right on the edge, because I was gone this afternoon and I see it rebooted a few times, but while I was gone the temp in the house had gone up to over 80f. It seems to have calmed back down now the I have the windows open and the room temp has dropped. Running at 3.978ghz, 442 x 9. I'm sure I'll be playing with a few things in the bios, but I think I am close to the max, and will be happy if I can get it to hold. Things would be a bit better if I can just crunch past the bevy of 54's in my cache.

And thanks for the congrats.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

msattler - They made you a forum moderator!

Congrats. I also see the RAC is coming back up. I guess the C2Q is stable now?

---

Never surrender and never give up. In the darkest hour there is always hope.

I built my new computer with Intel QX6850 quad core, but SETI reports and uses 2 CPU's

Nice PC!! :-)


BTW.
Why you don't use opt. app?

Thanks for your approval of my PC. :-)
Where do you get opt. app?

You can download the app you need from Crunch3r's site. If you need help selecting the correct app or installing it, post back and someone will help you.

---

"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman