see OzzFan's Comment:

Message 659453 - Posted 14 Oct 2007 3:17:13 UTC - in response to Message ID 658845.

On a more positive note than people not liking python. Good to see in the news that 2 days ago (October 11th)
the Allen Telescope Array (ATA) came online and is now hopefully doing some good work for you guys at SETI and
the Radio Astronomers at the University of California. Should be good when it is fully up and running and
searching for that "signal" that everyone wants to find!

Think vacations thoughts Matt and don't get too stressed in your first week back from Kiwiland or just think
of halloween and all the nice pieces of candy you guys can munch on in the office.

OzzFan's Response:

The short answer according to Eric Korpela, the Allen Telescope Array data will probably not make it over to SETI@Home.

The ATA is owned by the SETI Institute which is a separate entity and has nothing to do with SETI@Home.

Copyright © 2007 University of California

According to David Anderson at the recent Pan-Galactic workshop in Geneva BOINC amounts to 500 Teraflops.

Wow! Even if exaggerated, it's not too surprising - that post was from July 2004. Since then, CPU speeds would have doubled three times, and the number of multi-core chips in use has skyrocketed. The number of BOINC users has probably grown, too.

Keep in mind that that figure is for ALL of BOINC, not just SETI. Although it would be a good guess that SETI makes up a significant part of it!

According to David Anderson at the recent Pan-Galactic workshop in Geneva BOINC amounts to 500 Teraflops.

Wow! Even if exaggerated, it's not too surprising - that post was from July 2004. Since then, CPU speeds would have doubled three times, and the number of multi-core chips in use has skyrocketed. The number of BOINC users has probably grown, too.

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Would using Allen's (just) one hectare area (when all the dishes go up) be of any benefit to Seti@Home? If used as an interferometer (maybe, I don't know) it would be possible to study a very small area (perhaps only 45 arcseconds across) and make that hectare more sensitive than the (perhaps) four hectares at Arecibo concentrated on something over four times as wide (over three arcminutes). I'm just guessing that that might be true.

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Now that's a definitive answer! One would think ATA would be interested in "buying" the computational capacity we have for the minimal cost of funding the servers. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it would still be cheap: a post on ZDNet UK (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/tsearch/asci.htm) from 2004 indicated BOINC was equivalnet to a 12 teraflop machine costing $100m, but of course only part of that capacity was allocated to SETI@Home.

Thanks!

According to David Anderson at the recent Pan-Galactic workshop in Geneva BOINC amounts to 500 Teraflops.

Hmmm! My finger gets cold when I wet it and wave it around like that, too ;)

I guess if anyone should know then it's David Anderson but I do wonder a bit when I hear headline figures like that.

F.

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Now that's a definitive answer! One would think ATA would be interested in "buying" the computational capacity we have for the minimal cost of funding the servers. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it would still be cheap: a post on ZDNet UK (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/tsearch/asci.htm) from 2004 indicated BOINC was equivalnet to a 12 teraflop machine costing $100m, but of course only part of that capacity was allocated to SETI@Home.

Thanks!

According to David Anderson at the recent Pan-Galactic workshop in Geneva BOINC amounts to 500 Teraflops.

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Now that's a definitive answer! One would think ATA would be interested in "buying" the computational capacity we have for the minimal cost of funding the servers. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it would still be cheap: a post on ZDNet UK (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/tsearch/asci.htm) from 2004 indicated BOINC was equivalnet to a 12 teraflop machine costing $100m, but of course only part of that capacity was allocated to SETI@Home.

Thanks!

That's a very intersting angle!!! Should Arecibo actually go dark for Seti in a couple of years, 'selling' our services to someone else doing similar research might be possible to keep things going.

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"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

Now that's a definitive answer! One would think ATA would be interested in "buying" the computational capacity we have for the minimal cost of funding the servers. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it would still be cheap: a post on ZDNet UK (http://www.zdnet.co.uk/tsearch/asci.htm) from 2004 indicated BOINC was equivalnet to a 12 teraflop machine costing $100m, but of course only part of that capacity was allocated to SETI@Home.

Thanks!

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SETI@home has produced BOINC and now many programs are running on this platform. The main exception is Folding@home from Stanford University. But even World Community Grid is switching to BOINC and LHC@home is restarting from London University to cooperate in a huge scientific research program. The merit of this goes to the people who started SETI@home and BOINC. Even if Arecibo should close, there will be no lack of data for us to crunch.
Tullio

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If you go to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7041183.stm it seems that SETI will be running it, so we might be able to get our machines on all that lovely data.

Once again, SATAN, *THIS* project (SETI@home) is not involved with the ATA. There are many different SETI projects. SETI@home is only one of them. To the best of my knowledge, SETI@home is the ONLY 'seti' project using distributed computing to help analyze signals -- the others use more traditional methods for analysis (their own computers, and possibly buying time on various supercomputers), so don't count on being able to 'crunch' any other seti-data.

Unless something changes, SETI@home will not see one 'bit' from the ATA.

SETI@home began as a piggyback off of part of the signal obtained by another 'seti' project (iirc, SERENDIP IV), which itself piggybacked off of part of the signal received by one particular receiver at Arecibo. While efforts have been made in the past to gain access to other receivers at other radiotelescopes (such as the Parkes 'scope), they have fallen through for, as I understand it, two main reasons: politics within the scientific community, and lack of funding.

When Arecibo goes dark (or is extremely cut back in operations) in 2010 (as seems very likely -- the NSF wishes to spend the Arecibo budget on other instruments with, in their eyes, more scientific potential), it is a distinct possibility that SETI@home would run out of data to 'crunch'. Unless, that is, we can recrunch old data with different programs, such as the Astropulse app currently in beta-testing. Who knows if the SETI@home project can gain access at some point in the future to another radio-telescope feed? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Money is always the key. Other scientific projects out there are seen by many as being more worthy of money. 'Many' includes Government, Corporate, Academic, and private interests. Unless SETI@home can gain new Government grants, Academic interest, and Corporate and individual donations, its future is very uncertain. If not, well... If SETI@home ends after Arecibo, it has been a good run. After all, SETI@home was originally only supposed to last from May 1999 to May 2001 (2 years), and here we are here we are 6 1/2 years after its original endpoint, for a total run length of 11+ years if Arecibo closes as scheduled in 2010. The original plans were for about 100000 participants total (and about 10000 active). We have greatly surpassed those goals. SETI@home ran out of funding years ago, and has subsisted on private donations of money and some Corporate donations of equipment.

Regardless of if/when it shuts down, participation in the SETI@home project is something to be proud of. After all, it is one of the 'big 3' projects that popularized distributed computing, alongside that RSA crypto-key cracking project (now defunct, was run by d-net), and that protein folding project (folding@home). Together, we have accomplished mighty deeds. And the BOINC outgrowth of the SETI@home project has made it vastly easier for projects to enter the distributed computing arena on a virtually non-existent, shoestring budget.

Even *IF* we never find an ETI, we have still helped to change the world and make it a better place. Who knows what other distributed computing projects out there might find? A cure for a deadly disease? A new wonder drug? An enhanced understanding of the universe? All these things WE helped to make possible.

You want SETI@home to survive much past 2010? Its gonna take Government Grants to negotiate access to a new feed, and buy/build the equipment needed to connect to it, so start lobbying your governments now. Personal donations, if possible, are important as well... they help defray operating costs.

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https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.

If you go to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7041183.stm it seems that SETI will be running it, so we might be able to get our machines on all that lovely data.

DJHill

The answer is you have to do nothing. The information Eric gave previously still stands. The News Sources have been dropping the word Institue out of Seti Institue thus it gives the appearance that Seti@home is involved.

The response to my question provided a link to a document (already read) that didn't answer the question. That post was locked so I couldn't follow up there.

So: will the data coming from the Allen array require changes to the SETI client? From what I understand, the array will be taking images more frequently, and from a larger area of sky. This suggests there might have to be changes in the client, or the servers could slice the data in a way compatible with the current client.

Right now they're only pulling test images, but at some point the data wil start flowing. I'm just looking for a heads-up on whether or not we need to watch for an update to the client.

And in any case, more data means more cycles needed. Should we adjust the percentages of our various projects?

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

We crunch data.
How and where that data comes from seems to me to be irrelevent, unless there is
some form of contract. If we get hold of the Allen data, then I think we would
have an easier time of processing the data with more stable and predictable
angle ranges.
(Actually the poles wouldn't be bad places for a SETI telescope, wouldn't have
to compensate for the doppler shift of the Earth's rotation, just its orbit).

I don't think Arecibo is dead yet.....

Yes, but it could be dead in 2010(?). SKA is ready perhaps 2020, so we would have to be at least 10 years without SETI@home...

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Manned mission to Mars in 2019 Petition <-- Sign this, please.

Eric answered this question many months ago for me. The Allen Array project is a totally seperate project and will not have any impact on Seti@Home. Then again if something has changed since then, Eric will know.

Oh boy! ;(

They are also going to shut down Arecibo in the near future, so goodbye SETI@home. :(

I don't think Arecibo is dead yet.....

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"Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow." Albert Einstein
"With cats." kittyman

Eric answered this question many months ago for me. The Allen Array project is a totally seperate project and will not have any impact on Seti@Home. Then again if something has changed since then, Eric will know.

Oh boy! ;(

They are also going to shut down Arecibo in the near future, so goodbye SETI@home. :(

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Manned mission to Mars in 2019 Petition <-- Sign this, please.

Eric answered this question many months ago for me. The Allen Array project is a totally seperate project and will not have any impact on Seti@Home. Then again if something has changed since then, Eric will know.

Freudian slip? ;-)

I don't think he wears one (mighty comfy things though), but don't ask about his son in law...

Sorry for the confusion. Eric has been asked for a definative answer. It will show up in the Staff Blog...

Please be patient

Regards

Pappa

Edit: Starting in Novemeber the new donation push to keep Seti Alie is in the planning stages. Many of your efforts to this point have been greatly appreciated.

Freudian slip? ;-)

Sorry for the confusion. Eric has been asked for a definative answer. It will show up in the Staff Blog...

Please be patient

Regards

Pappa

Edit: Starting in Novemeber the new donation push to keep Seti Alive is in the planning stages. Many of your efforts to this point have been greatly appreciated.

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.