"Before playing world police I would start by
looking at what's wrong in my own country"


Dear Petit Soleil,

I do not want to continue these discussions but I had to chime in on your comments. Petit my dear friend, you would probably not be married to your Beautiful wife if the United States did not defend your country during ww2.

She would have been German and the French Language outlawed! Don't forget the US would be your First Best friend if someone attacked Canada (for what reason I wouldn't know) People in many other countries have no idea what freedom is and still live in the dark ages...

As Far as world police I would rather us do it in the terrorist back yard than ours!

Thanks

Tim

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Well, remember though that we have around 7 times the population of the U.K. also. And I seriously doubt if we have many murders with legally owned firearms. Remember the laws don't do anything at all to slow down a bad guy from getting a gun. Just people like me that care about the law and follow it. What would you do if you had someone breaking into your house who was armed??? Call the police? LOL They would get there in time to take the crime scene photos I guess. Over 40% of the machine guns sold worldwide are bought by individuals. And since 1934 the only one used in a murder in the US was back in the 80's when an off duty police officer used it to kill a police informant with an accomplice. He was senteneced to 18 years in prison or close to that.

I wouldn't want a bayonet attachment. But I sure wouldn't want someone else that had an interest in them not to be able to get it. If you are not a felon then I think you should be able to get any kind of firearm you want. Alot of the shooting deaths you are referring to may be people using them in self defense. Someone shooting someone trying to break into their house or attack them is a good thing so are those included???? Also are suicides included in those numbers??? Those are two things that can inflate the number. The number I would like to see is how many people who legally own a gun use it illegally to kill someone. That is the only number that matters for this discussion. I also don't like people who say that all the police are for the ban. Well, alot of police I know are very much against these types of restrictions. I sure feel safer knowing alot of the people around me are carrying a firearm on them. One fact I think you would have a hard time getting around is that ever state that has allowed concealed carry here in the US has seen a drop in violent crime. How would you explain that?

Cheers,
Keith

Where all this paranoia come from ?

I don't know anyone in Italy, France, Norway, England, Germany, etc. who would feel
the need to have a M16 under his pillow to sleep well. Is it because of what you see on
TV. When I am in the US I open the TV in my hotel room for 5 minutes and what I see is
COPS, AMERICA UNDER ATTACK, CRIME, WAR, INVESTIGATIONS, A FULL DOCUMENTARY
ABOUT HOW M1 TANK IS POWERFULL, ETC, ETC, ETC. I have never seen a cultural channel
where they talk about arts, poetry, history, etc. Only very low intelectual level program.
like MONSTER GARAGE, etc.

Actually you would have to pay me a great amount of money for me to live their. You guys
are still living in the wild west or what ?

> I do not want to continue these discussions but I had to chime in on your
> comments. Petit my dear friend, you would probably not be married to your
> Beautiful wife if the United States did not defend your country during ww2.
>
I used that argument once. Much to my amazement the thread took a serious turn for the worse.

People ask how far should this go? Where do you draw the line? Well I can give a couple of the extreme examples. Afganistan and Iraq. I chose these two since they are always in the news. You see people, both adults and children, walking around with their ak's and their rpg's. Eventually they're shooting at someone, or some group, or just shooting them up in the air totally ignorant that thanks to gravity those bullets fall back down on innocent people.
Should there be rules and restrictions to prevent this sort of lawlessness or should we go all the way and have every small child bring a firearm to elementary school?

"just shooting them up in the air totally ignorant that thanks to gravity those bullets fall back down on innocent people."

HA HA HA HA lolololol Totaly ignorant....No comment.

>They are independent nations not a colony of another and how they wish to celebrate is a >matter for their governnments, and the peoples of those nations - not yours, not mine, >but theirs.

Exactly. It's their business.

As is their longstanding preference according to the tenets and traditions of their established religion to be governed by theocracy- where the most revered leaders are mullas (clergy)- Separation of church and state? In Sunni territory? Forgetaboudit.
Principles of western democracy are as foreign to Islamic nations as Voodoo and Santeria are to congressional prayer breakfasts.
And there appears to be more than a little resentment toward the liberators who are well aware they've jumped with both feet into one hell of a hornets nest thanks to the bumbling antics of a US president ostensibly shielding the US from Iraqi terrorists.

> Actually, Marc, there are cases where people have been imjured, as well as
> killed, by bullets returning to earth from such gun-fire.
>
> -Richard

Yes I am sure it did happen but surely not because they were ignorant of gravity...

> I'm curious. What concern is it of yours?
>
Why are you such a fukcing a$$hole? This thread is about the end of the federal ban on assault weapons here in AMERICA. People in this thread have asked how far or how little a ban should go. So I was giving one extreme example when there is absolutely no control. Being that I live here and you dont means that I have a much more stake in the law here than you do.

> HA HA HA HA lolololol Totaly ignorant....No comment.

Oh really? This coming New Years Eve listen to the news and count how many people locally or worldly are injured and killed by this.

> They are independent nations not a colony of another and how they wish to
> celebrate is a matter for their governnments, and the peoples of those nations
> - not yours, not mine, but theirs.
>
If you personally dont think that senseless killing is something that is not to be discussed when something happens in/by another country that I fully expect you to ignore any subjects about it, including subjects of WAR that you disagree about.

> A little more than a century ago, this behaviour was also common in your
> country - if one believes the 'westerns' promulgated by Hollywood.
I wasnt there and neither were you. But if it was true they must have had their share of deaths and injuries too. Luckily civilization, for the most part, grew out of that.. although there still are a few dumba$$es here that still do it.

> > HA HA HA HA lolololol Totaly ignorant....No comment.
>
> Oh really? This coming New Years Eve listen to the news and count how many
> people locally or worldly are injured and killed by this.

I am note saying it does not happen. I am saying they are not ignorant

"The American Press article referred to 2 U.S.-based police organisations that requested the continuance of the ban. That is the police, themselves, are asking for it."

Well, just like the situation with the unions that has been in the news, organizations views sometimes don't represent their members views.

"Well, many people on this planet have suicidal tendencies. Why would a police officer want to make it easier to come across a criminal with an Uzi?"

An officer wouldn't be more likely to come accross a criminal with an Uzi. You said it yourself...CRIMINAL. The ban isn't going to affect him anyway. Besides an automatic weapon of anykind wasn't covered in the Assault Weapons ban.

"Where do you draw the line? Rocket propelled grenades (RPGs)? How about light calibre mortars?"

I don't think those would classify as "firearms". Only firearms are a guaranteed right.

"Why? What could one use it for? Maim a deer and then kill it, cruelly, with a bayonet to rid some form of blood lust?"

This really gripes me when everyone tries to justify using the gun for sport. Do you ask the army how a tanks main gun is necessary for sporting purposes??? No. The most important reason for our citizens to have firearms is that if our contry ever was invaded we would be the last line of defense and secondly and most importantly, as is said in many letters written by our founding fathers, to make sure our own government doesn't try to take away the peoples rights and make sure that if they did the people would have the ability to stop them.

As for why are we so scared of things....well, that would be like asking why someone would have a fire extinguisher in their house. It is rarely if ever used and the fire department can handle a fire right???? Just a few blocks from were I work a guy I know had 3 men break into his shop while he was there and beat him with a pipe until he was in intensive care. This was a 25 year old ex-football player. There were over 2 million documented cases last year according to police records were a person just threatening the use of a gun stopped someone from carjacking, raping or comitting some other type of violent crime. So if we had less firearms we would just have fewer good guys and more bad guys.

Funny thing is, I find myself to be very liberal on several issues.

-Keith

> Really? This thread is only about a non-longer ban on assault weapons in the
> U.S.? Only you, as an American, are entitled to make commentary on it?
>
For Christs sake! Are you truely the ignorant little pleeb you appear to be? Dont you consider your own questions to the responses you get? You asked "I'm curious. What concern is it of yours?" Get it? What concern is it of MINE! And I gave you a direct answer what concern it is to ME. But since that answer doesnt agree with your own political agenda you have to give some sort of BS response.

> I quote you from this thread:
>
> > You see people, both adults and children, walking around with their ak's
> and
> > their rpg's. Eventually they're shooting at someone, or some group, or
> just
> > shooting them up in the air totally ignorant that thanks to gravity
> those
> > bullets fall back down on innocent people.
> ***So why the racism? Because they are Arab? Pathan? Muslim? Because you
> perceive them uneducated? Or is it likely because they are from a different
> culture than you and you are incapable of comprehending a different
> culture?***
>
Nice edit there hypocrite. Once again your selective memory kicks in. What you left out was where I said,"Well I can give a couple of the extreme examples. Afganistan and Iraq. I chose these two since they are always in the news." Get it? IN THE NEWS! I dont tell the media what to report. I can only take examples from current events that gets reported. I guess in your logic that makes the media racist too. And where did you get "uneducated" from. I never said that, but you just did. In your logic you are racist because in your own words you think Arabs/Pathans/Muslims are uneducated. I think you accuse others of racism just to hide your own.

> > Should there be rules and restrictions to prevent this sort of
> lawlessness or
> > should we go all the way and have every small child bring a firearm to
> > elementary school?
> ***Again, why do you want to force your culture on them? What are you
> frightened of? Why are you so insecure?***
>
Here you show your 3rd grade reading level. How does talking about a hypothetical situation here in a US elem school "force your culture on them?"

> Yup, you proved your point that this thread is only a discussion about a no
> longer existing ban on asault weapons in the U.S.. Of course, you know that
> Iraq and Afghanistan are separate nations where U.S. law does not apply. So
> what have your comments to do with a discussion on this no longer existing
> ban.
>
Of course I know that "Iraq and Afghanistan are separate nations where U.S. law does not apply." As Ive now said for a THIRD time it was an extreme example. Try reading ONE. You really seem to read into my comments what you want to hear and not what I am saying.


> -H. Richard Utzig
>
Richard, the only thing I really get from you is that you seem to hate the American Government and the American People. That the USA is the cause of all the evil and problems in the world. That an American who is pro-American is racist. That someone who HONESTLY speaks their mind, without lies or deceit, without giving in to supression or censorship by you or others is racist.
Well my friend all I can respond to you regarding this is nothing is farther from the truth. Do I hate the French people? No. In fact I love their language. Do I hate the French government? No, but I admit sometimes I'm confused by their votes in the UN. Do I hate the Canadian government or its people? No. I've vacationed there before and probably will do so again. Do I hate you? No. I dont hold grudges and tomorrow is a different day. Now maybe you hate us and maybe you dont. But *IF* you do dont expect that because of that we would hate you back. You just pissed me off this evening, not because of your world political feelings but because of your blatant accusations. Hypocracy is my biggest pet peeve and sometimes causes me to fly off the handle. Do I believe that non-Americans have the right to comment, whether good or bad, about my Country and its government? Absolutely. But you have to also realize that you may get responses to your comment, for the good or bad. It follows the cliche of "Dont dish it out if you cant take it." Do I believely that Americans can comment on other countries? Again absolutely and I would expect comments in return. Now I for one have RESPONDED to what I perceived to be anti-american comments both jokingly and seriously but I have never INITIATED any anti-other country comment.
I hope you'll be able to read this and take it at face value, without "reading between the lines" or superimposing your thoughts onto mine. I've tried to express and explain myself here as best as I could. Whether or not you choose to understand what Im trying to say here is entirely up to you.