Well, I can only say there were a number of people I got to know that I deemed not responsible enough to carry a gun in their homes.

Safety is of course not needed around each and every corner, but when it comes to lethal weapons, a line should be drawn (if not 'there', where else would safety play a factor).
Just because you think you are responsible enough to deal with firearms, that doesn't mean the whole rest of that nation is automatically as well.
(your daily news feed should present that in a sufficient manner)

And yes, Policemen actually do carry firearms around here, although I have not personally witnessed them actually pulling them in my entire lifetime myself.
Maybe it's that way, because the people (even common criminals) they deal with normally do not posess, let alone utilitze such firearms against them.

If you were to have a semi-automatic rifle over here, you'd have to be a dangerous, heavy criminal (and likely see a special forces Police team blow through your door one day).

All in all, it 'does' make this spot of the world alot safer, knowing not everyone can own and carry man-portable artillery.
Human history has always shown that if given broad access to a source of power, a number of individuals will never be able to resist (ab)using it over time.

But well, the discussion is a bit pointless I agree.
It's not my nation, I don't run it, and it's none of my business what consequences it will have for you.
Just don't complain or be surprised/shocked about certain events, when in the past you have been more than sufficiently warned that those 'will' eventually happen by others.
___________________________________________
<p>Scientific Network : 36200 MHz «» 8204 MB «» 815.0 GB </p>

> Do the police in France and other European countries carry firearms on their
> persons?
>
To my knowledge the English Bobbies do not carry sidearms.

Edit: I did a Google search to confirm this and results were mixed. Some say they do, some say they dont. I did stumble upon an interesting looking book called Guns and Violence: The English Experience

Police system is different in most european countries compare to US. In France you have many different "Police" corps. Gendarmerie, Police Nationale, CRS, etc. Some carry weapons some don't. I guess it's the same in england. The ones that are pretty well armed for sure are called RAID and GIGN

http://raid.admin.free.fr/

FalconFly, I see your point. Yes it is more dangerous. Yes we have idiots that can just go out and buy a gun.

About generations growing up around guns, those that can't handle the responsibility usually end up dead or in jail. So in some ways it's darwinism. Most idiots usually have a record before they even reach 18 so they are going to get guns illegally anyways. What's dangerous besides that are the people that get pushed over the edge one day and decides to take everyone out.

If a parent is not able to teach their kids responsibility then the whole family is at risk. Fire arm education starts very young in most cases for families with guns. As for the real bad things that can happen, like Columbine, this is one of the risks we take for having so many fire arms in circulation. What would be nice in our situation is a background check that would filter out the possible idiots and tougher punishment for illegal transfers.

I don't have a problem with having guns at home. I personally don't have any but have shot many of my friends' guns. It's not a big deal to have guns here, it's like having a truck or a boat. And if you're a hunter you never have just one gun, you'll have at least one for each type of hunting you do. So it's not uncommon for one of my friends to have 7 or more guns. Just don't be stupid, there aren't that many rules to follow. None of my friends' guns are military style, they're all hunting rifles, shotguns, or pistols.

There are some towns that let licensed people carry pistols openly. The interesting effect is that people are very nice to each other.

There is and always have been a distrust of the government by some Americans. This is why some fight so hard for gun rights.

Yes it's more dangerous, but this is how we have chosen to live. We don't think about it much. Just becareful who you tick off. : )

mostly_harmless

It is really a cultural subject. Having arms and talking about military is very open in the US and people are proud of their forces. It's not a critic just how it appear to me. It is complete opposite in France. Military is a taboo subject. People talk rarely about their military forces. France is currently the second arms and military exporter and the 3rd military power in the world but it is not a subject of pride. All the french military equipment are made in France, ships, subs, fighter jets, missile, radars, guns, etc. Everything is part of one of the biggest industry in France but people rather talk about Good food, poetry, sex, philosophy, soccer and culture. The biggest taboo subject is nuclear. When I try to discuss that with them they change subject. They are ashame about nuclear test made in the pacific by their government and they would rather prefer not being in the group of 5 nuclear power.

> Even though I have made it clear that I find it absurd that legally owned guns
> do anything but save lives I will present another question.

Keith, can you tell me how many American people are accidentally killed each year by their own (legal) guns? I seem to recall that the number is quite high. In fact, I have a friend who nearly killed her boyfriend when he came home early from work one night and was trying to climb in their bedroom window because he didn't have his house key.

> It seems to me indicative of current times through which we're passing that
> the concept of nation as it's always been known to mankind has about outlived
> its' usefulness.
...
> We have such a long ways to go before we can collectively be appreciated as a
> single people populating this little planet.
> We are still arguing amongst each other over ancient history while we all walk
> unprepared toward a completely unknown future content to be led like sheep by
> obviously corrupt and antiquated masters like morally bankrupt nationalism
> and hocus pocus religionism.

Well said, Carl.

According to the 2003 World Almanac the largest armies, by troop numbers, are as follows:

1. China
2. United States
3. India
4. N. Korea
5. Russia
6. S. Korea
7. Turkey
8. Iran
9. Pakistan
10. Vietnam
11. Egypt
12. Iraq (Not Now)
13. Afghanistan
14. Taiwan
15. Myanmar
16. Germany
17. Ethiopia
18. FRANCE
*
27. United Kingdom

I really was surprised by this in two ways. First of all I thought the UK had a much larger military and secondly I thought Frances was much much smaller.


"Keith, can you tell me how many American people are accidentally killed each year by their own (legal) guns? I seem to recall that the number is quite high. In fact, I have a friend who nearly killed her boyfriend when he came home early from work one night and was trying to climb in their bedroom window because he didn't have his house key."

Well, that would be tragic but when using a firearm split second decisions are often necessary. I can think of alot of ways to prevent such a situation though by yelling or saying something to warn her. It is rather scary to me how little training local police go through. We have had more than one incident were a local officer fired his pistol by accident out in front of the police station because he thought it wasn't loaded. One of the bullets went accross a street and into the fire station. Another Highway Patrolman here threw a bullet down into a bucket of ammo and it hit just right causing it to discharge and fire a round up into the ceiling. I would also point out that accidents are just that. I was talking about legal guns used in crimes. The figures I have hover between 1,000 and 2,000 accidental shootings each year in the US but they don't distinguish weather they were legally owned or not.

A semi automatic rifle is a semi automatic rifle. The guns that were banned were banned on purely cosmetic reasons. They looked scary.
Is an AK47 more deadly than any other rifle? No.

"You think it's a conspiracy by the networks to put bad shows on TV. But the shows are bad because that's what people want. It's not like Windows users don't have any power. I think they are happy with Windows, and that's an incredibly depressing thought."

- STEVE JOBS

> I really was surprised by this in two ways. First of all I thought the UK had
> a much larger military and secondly I thought Frances was much much smaller.

Yea Actually people think the UK as bigger army then France because of the Gulf war where UK participation was twice as big as France. This was due to the fact that France was already engaged in many places in Africa at that time.

Military Expenditure Total

Rank Country Military expenditures - dollar figure Date of Information
1 United States $ 276,700,000,000
2 China $ 55,910,000,000 FY02
3 France $ 46,500,000,000 2000
4 Japan $ 39,520,000,000 FY02
5 Germany $ 38,800,000,000 2002
6 United Kingdom $ 31,700,000,000 2002
7 Italy $ 20,200,000,000 2002
8 Saudi Arabia $ 18,300,000,000
9 Brazil $ 13,408,000,000
10 Korea, South $ 13,094,300,000 FY02

Many other factors play an important role in this fact. Like I said earlier
France has a hughe military industry. It has very high tech tanks, the Leclair tank equivalent to the M1. The Rafale jet fighter is the most modern jet fighter but unfortunately it cost more then its weight in Gold... so country prefer buying 2 F16 for the same price. It's nuclear power (force de frappe)is entirely independant and France is the only country after USA and RUSSIA that can launch an attack from air, sea and land.

Here are some other facts taken from http://www.ius.edu/french/FrenchFacts.html

*France is the world's third military power (after the US and Russia), and has the world's second largest defense industry (i.e. exocet missiles, radar technology.)
*France has the fourth largest economy in the world after the U.S., Japan and Germany.
*French companies employ over 400,000 Americans.
*Overall, the French export more per capita than the Japanese and more than twice as much as the Americans. France is overall, the fourth largest exporting nation of the world.
*More tourists visit France than any other country in the world.
*France gives more foreign aid to developing nations than the US.
*Most commercial satellites are put into space on French Ariane rockets.

Sorry off topic. After all not only americans can show some patriotism...

Friendly
Marc

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Interresting graphs http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

Wondrous Momma Nature can be such a cantankerous bitch.
Insistantly whanging away in recent days with her little fit of hurricane Jeanne, she managed to infuse my AMD 2200 box with rainwater as well as everything else in sight around here.
So for the last 3 days in fits and starts I have assembled from castoff remnants and found objects a new incarnation of what Microsoft calls 'My Computer' and gotten the beast churning out WU's for this project at an astounding rate of one every 11.2 hours or thereabouts. Yikes!
A blisteringly roaring Celeron 787 Mhz cruxified to a toy Presario motherboard- my HD's escaped undunked- thank the fates.
I'm glad I didn't just grab a gun and shoot the damn thing.
Anyway I look in on this thread from pre-storm and see how it flew to hell and gone so I'm not touching it.
-good to see the project has stayed dry....cc

> Wondrous Momma Nature can be such a cantankerous bitch.
> Insistantly whanging away in recent days with her little fit of hurricane
> Jeanne, she managed to infuse my AMD 2200 box with rainwater as well as
> everything else in sight around here.
> So for the last 3 days in fits and starts I have assembled from castoff
> remnants and found objects a new incarnation of what Microsoft calls 'My
> Computer' and gotten the beast churning out WU's for this project at an
> astounding rate of one every 11.2 hours or thereabouts. Yikes!
> A blisteringly roaring Celeron 787 Mhz cruxified to a toy Presario
> motherboard- my HD's escaped undunked- thank the fates.
> I'm glad I didn't just grab a gun and shoot the damn thing.
> Anyway I look in on this thread from pre-storm and see how it flew to hell and
> gone so I'm not touching it.
> -good to see the project has stayed dry....cc

I am sorry to ear that you have been hit by Jeanne. Actually I was wondering why you where not posting on this thred no more...I personnaly appreciated the intelligence and hummour of your post. It might have "flew to hell" because you couldn't participate no more.

Friendly
Marc
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