Msattlers' "simple poll" BSing thread

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Profile Logan
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Message 631129 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 16:38:43 UTC - in response to Message 631090.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2007, 16:44:06 UTC

Please don't link images with obscene words in them, thank you.

I'm sorry... only was an innocent post of a funny picture...

I'm sorry if the original expresion inclosed in that pic are offensive...


No problem, Logan. It was a funny picture, and appropriate in every respect except for that one little 4-letter word. If you could alter the pic to obscure that one word, or maybe change it to something not obscene, and repost the pic, I am sure we would all benefit from it.



I can't... the pic is dont mine, and I dont have a web site where put this changed pic... If you can, the url is http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/177830973_2f7a9da142.jpg?v=0
Logan.

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Message 631160 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 17:04:53 UTC - in response to Message 631123.  

Mark, I'm seeing a whole lotta "yay's", If someone's already left, they probably won't be voting, so a simple 74 yay's, 20 nay's, might not be as accurate as one would think.


Astro - I can believe I am going to say this but I agree with you -
I Rarely come to SETI anymore - and even less to the message boards - Berkeley lied to us again, the last credit adjustment was told to us to be the last. Seems in someone's most intelligent thinking as Berked us again.

I spend thousands of dollars on machines for only one purpose to crunch - and spend thousands of dollars on power to run those machines. I want / need the biggest bang for my investment - just like any investment- you want the most gain. My machines are not corporate owned, and are entirely personal. No corporate or business funding.

27 million BOINC credits do not come cheap!



And BTW - The Kitties are RETARDED !!



Powerful crunching there!!
Like yourself, I have also spent $1000.00s on computers to do nothing else but run Seti. Check my rigs and add it up, sir. I do not hide my computers.
And I think that a power bill in the range of $4000.00/year is up there as well.
The difference between you and I is that while I watch my credits and RAC more than some, I do not crunch just to accumulate points. I crunch to support Seti.
So while I may P&M about the current credit situation, I will stay here no matter what to support the project.
Your choice of projects to support is your business, and I respect your choice not to crunch Seti because of the lower number of credits for your crunching dollar.
That's just not where my priorities lie.

And the kitties say....."Have a good day anyway, sir."

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 631246 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 18:53:24 UTC - in response to Message 631237.  

Just as I thought


For what it's worth, I did not request it. I can handle criticism.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 631294 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 19:49:17 UTC - in response to Message 630929.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2007, 19:52:02 UTC


Honest question: Why are you here if this is not what you want?
Regards,
Martin


@ML1 (and others)
One could be attempted to ask you the same question: Why are you here?

Your RAP far exceeds your RAC! ?

Regards
Kiva

PS. RAP = Recent Average Postrate
Greetings from Norway

Crunch3er & AK-V8 Inside
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Message 631300 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 19:53:23 UTC

While i am the first to admit it's nice to see your name climbing up the 'leader board', this is not the reason i am here. We are analysing data for a scientific project, not in a competition or a game. The credit system is basically there to see how your computer is performing, and IMO is of minor importance compared to the work being done.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Message 631306 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 19:58:58 UTC

No BS'ing from me or grousing for that matter CPDN gets 4x what SAH gets but that is only 'cos it needs 4x to get done ☺
Old enough to know better(but)still young enough not to care
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Message 631308 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 20:00:24 UTC - in response to Message 631300.  

While i am the first to admit it's nice to see your name climbing up the 'leader board', this is not the reason i am here. We are analysing data for a scientific project, not in a competition or a game. The credit system is basically there to see how your computer is performing, and IMO is of minor importance compared to the work being done.
Just my thoughts on the matter.


Well said, sir. If my RAC continues to drop when others start to recover, I will check my rig to make sure it's not going wonky; then I'll stop checking the RAC to give the box a few more cycles for crunching!!

RAC is the froth on top of the serious business.
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Message 631310 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 20:01:22 UTC - in response to Message 631294.  

@ML1 (and others)
One could be attempted to ask you the same question: Why are you here?

Love of the search and of the project?

Happy crunchin',
Martin

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
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Message 631341 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 20:39:23 UTC


{edit} oh mi lord - i've gone OFF Topic . . . RAC - RAC - RAC
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Message 631395 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 21:20:12 UTC - in response to Message 631129.  

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/177830973_2f7a9da142.jpg?v=0



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Message 631404 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 21:22:53 UTC - in response to Message 630633.  

I'm not dissing anyone. Having been the author of many a "poll" thread (in fact if you do a search of thread title with the word "poll", you'll see it's the vast majority of them). Many feel the need to add "qualifiers" to their votes. It's my intent to have them put that extra "unwanted in your thread" junk here. Most of my poll thread were before we had "automods" and mods more frequently in attendance to pick up after a thread and delete the unwanted utterings of voters.

for example I said "yay" but feel things can be done differently. Such as how I figured out the x86-64 linux users were being given the wrong app and did something to improve that situation. Sure I wish I hadn't wasted all last weekend running an underperforming app, and did so because that's what was given to stock users for 1/2 the credit of stock windows users. That didn't stop me from saying "yay". I did something about it. Other than just whine.

Just saying "yea" or "nay" is sometimes not enough to express ones true and complete thoughts.

no harm intended.

It's a poll. If he didn't constrain it to a small set of possible answers, you end up with one tally per column, and as many columns as there are participants.

I agree that things could be done differently, but sometimes "different" and "better" are two different things.

For example, they might have released "high-claiming" work instead of "low claiming" work during the first few weeks. I also think this is one of those "hindsight is 20-20" things.

Announcing a slightly higher multiplier and then releasing something lower was probably a mistake. It would have been easier to "sell" the lower multiplier if the earlier statements weren't made. I still think the multiplier is about right (pending the ability to change it based on the angle range).

I'm staying not because I think it's all SETI, but because I think there were rational reasons behind the decisions, and because frankly, whenever you change something, the odds are pretty good that you'll break something.

Since MB, my RAC went down, came back up, and is now trending down. I think it has more to do with the high-paying/low-paying work units than anything else.
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Message 631409 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 21:26:02 UTC - in response to Message 630718.  

...scientific poll...


Now *THAT* is an oxymoron.

I hate polls 'cause they are always skewed based on ...
...group asked
...group results are going to be shown to (who do you want to influence)
...method asked (phone, mail, forced, inperson, etc)
...specific LANGUAGE/format of question
...order of questions
...other questions asked
...CHOICE of RESPONSES (one choice should always be "What?")
...people who LIE on polls (like me!)
...people who submit responses more than once!!!


A properly executed scientific poll is going to be pretty accurate.

The first requirement is that the respondents are NOT self-selected. Here, they are, so the poll is not scientific.
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Message 631415 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 21:28:53 UTC - in response to Message 631123.  

Berkeley lied to us again, the last credit adjustment was told to us to be the last. Seems in someone's most intelligent thinking as Berked us again.

By "last credit adjustment" are you talking about the one switching from Classic to BOINC, or some later adjustment?
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Message 631416 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 21:29:06 UTC - in response to Message 631409.  

...scientific poll...


Now *THAT* is an oxymoron.

I hate polls 'cause they are always skewed based on ...
...group asked
...group results are going to be shown to (who do you want to influence)
...method asked (phone, mail, forced, inperson, etc)
...specific LANGUAGE/format of question
...order of questions
...other questions asked
...CHOICE of RESPONSES (one choice should always be "What?")
...people who LIE on polls (like me!)
...people who submit responses more than once!!!


A properly executed scientific poll is going to be pretty accurate.

The first requirement is that the respondents are NOT self-selected. Here, they are, so the poll is not scientific.


Of course. The very fact that the respondants are even on this board skews the whole thing. After all, if they had left already, they would not be answering my poll, now would they? LOL. It was just kinda meant as a show of hands kinda thing.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 631467 - Posted: 1 Sep 2007, 21:53:20 UTC - in response to Message 631416.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2007, 21:54:08 UTC

The very fact that the respondants are even on this board skews the whole thing.

True, by and large, just as one might conclude from surveying the Getting Started forum that BOINC is difficult to install.

After all, if they had left already, they would not be answering my poll, now would they?

Human behaviour often defies logic. They may be a tiny minority, but there are a few indviduals who hang around projects they’ve stopped crunching for (except to maintain a sufficient RAC to post, where applicable), just to kvetch …
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Message 631665 - Posted: 2 Sep 2007, 1:15:14 UTC - in response to Message 631416.  

...
The very fact that the respondants are even on this board skews the whole thing. After all, if they had left already, they would not be answering my poll, now would they? LOL. It was just kinda meant as a show of hands kinda thing.

An interesting group is those participants who basically never come to these boards, probably don't know what their RAC is or care at all about credits. I suspect they outnumber those of us who have made this effort into a hobby which occupies much of our time. They effectively voted "Yay" when they joined.
                                                                 Joe
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Message 631678 - Posted: 2 Sep 2007, 1:23:14 UTC - in response to Message 631665.  

...
The very fact that the respondants are even on this board skews the whole thing. After all, if they had left already, they would not be answering my poll, now would they? LOL. It was just kinda meant as a show of hands kinda thing.

An interesting group is those participants who basically never come to these boards, probably don't know what their RAC is or care at all about credits. I suspect they outnumber those of us who have made this effort into a hobby which occupies much of our time. They effectively voted "Yay" when they joined.
                                                                 Joe


Now there's a well-rounded perspective!
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Message 631781 - Posted: 2 Sep 2007, 3:07:59 UTC
Last modified: 2 Sep 2007, 3:09:05 UTC

The majority of people who frequent this forum, and thus voted in the poll are members of the seti diehard clique, for who the project can do no wrong and so the result is only to be expected.

for a far more accurate view of the picture one only has to look at the drop in active users in the last 5 months(See Link Below). Notice the increased rate of fall after the introduction of MB. So far we have a fall of allmost 10,000 active users in around 21 weeks and the rate of fall is still increasing.

The fall in numbers is hardly surprising as the diehards, allthough more vocal here in the forum probabaly connsist of a much smaller percentage than would appear while those of us with a constant eye on our RAC are a larger group than would first appear.

Active Users


m4rtyn
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Message 631798 - Posted: 2 Sep 2007, 3:24:36 UTC - in response to Message 631781.  

for a far more accurate view of the picture one only has to look at the drop in active users in the last 5 months(See Link Below). Notice the increased rate of fall after the introduction of MB. So far we have a fall of allmost 10,000 active users in around 21 weeks and the rate of fall is still increasing.


The only graph supporting your theory is the "Total number of active users (last 60 days)(have been granted credit in the last month)". How do we know this isn't caused by the large delay in granted credit thanks to moving the quorum down to 2 (thus increasing the time it takes to get two matching results confirmed), or the erred workunits that are taking forever one some systems that people may not know about if they don't check their systems on a daily basis, or the fact that the servers have been having problems with downloads on and off since the multibeam roll out?

I guess you really can't look at the statistics because... well... you know what they say about statistics and lies and all that.
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Message 631801 - Posted: 2 Sep 2007, 3:35:58 UTC
Last modified: 2 Sep 2007, 3:37:00 UTC

I will remain attached to all projects. The difference is the resource allocation.

Currently, I am on a mission to get to 100,000 on every project possible. Once there, then it becomes a mix of "which projects do I like?" and "which projects grant the most credits?".

"Well, I'm sick of this room and everyone in it." -- Bender
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