Linux for a 'Doze guy........

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Message 620895 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 8:08:10 UTC

Just curious......
Does anybody have any experience if Linux is more immune to being trashed when an OC goes bad?
I am having a heck of a time getting my 2nd quad rig running again after it crashed and trashed winxp (again). I know this is my problem caused by ram errors, but just wondered it Linux recovered more gracefully from it.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 620909 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 8:33:18 UTC

I'm not that much into OC, but I often had bad(old) RAM sticks and mobos with blown capacitors. Those killed many Windows installations, but never Linux.

I'd say give it try!


mic.


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Message 620914 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 8:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 620909.  

I'm not that much into OC, but I often had bad(old) RAM sticks and mobos with blown capacitors. Those killed many Windows installations, but never Linux.

I'd say give it try!



I might just have to. I am at my wit's end with this. My XP CD has been reinstalled so many times I have to phone home to get it validated these days. Such a bunch of.......(self edited for decorum).

Any advice on what the easiest version of Linux would be to try? I have seen many reccomendations bandied about, seems everybody has their favorites. Which only makes it more difficult for a MS dude to try to make the jump. But I might wanna try to get another quaddy online sometime, and just can't afford to buy yet another CD of Windoze with the threat that I may have to start phoning in for permission to use it if my hardware goes astray and requires that I reload it too many times. Talk about Big Brother syndrome.
Is there a version of Linux that would be almost transparent to a 'Doze guy? I mean with a GUI and such, rather than a DOS type interface and tons of new commands to learn?
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 620916 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 8:57:38 UTC

What do you plan to do with it? Watching DVD's, Spreadsheets, Server of some fashion, just for boinc, etc?
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Message 620919 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 9:01:47 UTC - in response to Message 620916.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2007, 9:05:47 UTC

What do you plan to do with it? Watching DVD's, Spreadsheets, Server of some fashion, just for boinc, etc?


Just for Boinc. Dedicated rig.

EDIT.....Gotta support a quaddy.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 620920 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 9:02:16 UTC
Last modified: 17 Aug 2007, 9:04:05 UTC

Renaming the thread......as it seems this is where I am headed........

The kitties are afraid of learning a new OS. I forgot DOS many years ago.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 620936 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 9:21:42 UTC

This might help. ;)

I got a dedicated cruncher (dual xeon) with ubuntu 64bit ( only console) - was set up in 'bout an hour and running since then...

mic.


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Message 620942 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 9:35:52 UTC
Last modified: 17 Aug 2007, 9:46:04 UTC

If you don't already have an "ISO" burner program (like Nero), you'll need one like Iso recorder for any version you download. You also might need a "torrent" program like Bit torrent.

Most full blown versions support multi processors however, if you just want to run from CD/DVD I've found Knoppix, Overclockix, and Mandriva one free work with dual cores anyway. With a live CD if you want to stop using it, just shut it down, remove CD, and reboot into previous OS on HD/network.

Both gnome and kde versions are "window like". However, some terminal(konsole/console) work would be required to set up boinc. After that it's pretty much "start boinc" "stop boinc". The difficult (atleast for me) parts come when you want to get other things to work (configured), as some commands are required (which I don't know, and haven't bothered learning.

I assume you'd want the Opt app for it, but don't know how to install that, so others would be needed for that. I remember seeing in Ozzfans' linux thread where someone explained where to put those files. (Mr Smith maybe??)

Here's the Mandriva download page. The "one 2007 spring" is the basic package which may/maynot support multiprocessors, but runs from CD and can be installed(but I don't recommend it). Free 2007 spring is the package I'd pick but requires install to HD. might wanna just try the LiveCD version first. If you want to try out the LiveCD (one 2007 spring), then here are step by step instructions for getting boinc to run. As I mentioned earlier opt apps aren't detailed in this guide.

If you choose a full install use "Grub" as the bootloader. Defrag the drive prior to install, then allow the install program to "make room"(repartition) on the hard drive automatically (the first time anyway).
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Message 620950 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 9:48:37 UTC

Oh yeah, some devices (network cards, mobos, video, etc)aren't automatically supported, and trying the LiveCD first, you'd get some idea if it'll work with your gear. It's a "no commitment" way of try before you buy (not really buy)
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Message 620951 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 9:51:01 UTC

One of the things that makes Linux more immune to OC/crash problems is the file system. Linux uses a journalling file system (in basic terms, keeps a record of recent operations), so in event of a crash, it will recover the journal and complete it's operations on a re-boot). It also does a disk check on start-up that will correct most errors that may have happened during a bad shutdown.

Boinc Button Abuser In Training >My Shrubbers<
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Message 621025 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 13:21:34 UTC - in response to Message 620895.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2007, 13:26:24 UTC

Just curious......
Does anybody have any experience if Linux is more immune to being trashed when an OC goes bad?
I am having a heck of a time getting my 2nd quad rig running again after it crashed and trashed winxp (again). I know this is my problem caused by ram errors, but just wondered it Linux recovered more gracefully from it.


At first get some experience with a Life Cd. So you can get a grasp and feeling over the Linux system. It won't harm since it does not install on your HD.
I should go for KNOPPIX, its detection mechanism of hardware is pretty good and comes with a loaded bunch of USEFULL software. Bear in mind that its actually slower than the installed version!

If you want to go for real stability choose Debian Etch (Stable).
If you want more to be in pace with new things go for Ubuntu 7.04 if you happen to like the Gnome desktop. Kubuntu 7.04 if you like KDE (more windows alike).
If you go for speed, do a minimal install of Xubuntu with the Xfce desktop, real fast that one.
If you want a SECURE system go for one of the BSD flavours, PC BSD is real good for a windooz guy...

I guess that with the RAC you have you can spare a few cycles for the moment and dedicate a box to Linux, so eventually welcome to the Linux club that brings the fun back to computing... (with real windowing environment,...hihi)

Greetings from Belgium,
HP ;-))

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Message 621040 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 14:01:46 UTC - in response to Message 621025.  

[quote]Just curious......
Does anybody have any experience if Linux is more immune to being trashed when an OC goes bad?
I am having a heck of a time getting my 2nd quad rig running again after it crashed and trashed winxp (again). I know this is my problem caused by ram errors, but just wondered it Linux recovered more gracefully from it.


As mentioned download a livecd (iso) then burn it (on a windows machine). Then boot it on the machine you want to test for hardware compatibility. It won't do anything permanent on the machine you are testing just stays in memory. Which flavor (distro) is up to you..its just too many choices at this stage and you don't have any real preferences/specifics yet. Don't worry about it. Just something that will run a quaddy and seti with minimum nonsense (and has a windows like GUI). I use PCLinuxOS (PCLOS) which fits what I want to do and I'm certainly just a linux newbie. Hardest part was getting my nvidia card to run properly. All that required was to to d/l the 'driver' from nvidia, click it, "extract here", then type one of those esoteric commandline/dos commands in a 'shell'. Then reboot. If you haven't begged Microsoft permission (again) to allow you to use the software you gave your hard-earned money for, then all you are out is a little time. And Simon has a new app for the multi-beam project already up for linux.
Once you get the livecd fired up and linux running, open up a console (shell/dos window) and type "cat /proc/cpuinfo" (note the space) and it will tell you what cpu it sees...john
ps. I learned long ago to back up my C: directory every now and then, especially before one of MS's updates. That seems usually a good time for windows to get borked up. Thanks Bill, my pacemaker appreciates the frustration. I use Acronis True Image for that...j
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Message 621164 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 17:17:44 UTC - in response to Message 620914.  

I'm not that much into OC, but I often had bad(old) RAM sticks and mobos with blown capacitors. Those killed many Windows installations, but never Linux.

I'd say give it try!



I might just have to. I am at my wit's end with this. My XP CD has been reinstalled so many times I have to phone home to get it validated these days. Such a bunch of.......(self edited for decorum).

Any advice on what the easiest version of Linux would be to try? I have seen many reccomendations bandied about, seems everybody has their favorites. Which only makes it more difficult for a MS dude to try to make the jump. But I might wanna try to get another quaddy online sometime, and just can't afford to buy yet another CD of Windoze with the threat that I may have to start phoning in for permission to use it if my hardware goes astray and requires that I reload it too many times. Talk about Big Brother syndrome.
Is there a version of Linux that would be almost transparent to a 'Doze guy? I mean with a GUI and such, rather than a DOS type interface and tons of new commands to learn?


I've recently gotten Ubuntu up and running on a P4 3.0 HT machine w/ 1GB Ram. Really east to get up - it has Boincmgr in it (easily activated) but I'm having trouble getting Boinc client installed.
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Message 621176 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 17:29:46 UTC - in response to Message 620895.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2007, 17:42:40 UTC

Just curious......
Does anybody have any experience if Linux is more immune to being trashed when an OC goes bad?
I am having a heck of a time getting my 2nd quad rig running again after it crashed and trashed winxp (again). I know this is my problem caused by ram errors, but just wondered it Linux recovered more gracefully from it.

I don't know a thing about OCing, but I'd say 'try it'. It doesn't cost anything.

Drop in a live cd first to check your hardware for compatibility.

The latest Mandriva One - 2007.1 Spring - is worth a spin:

http://www.mandriva.com/en/download/mandrivaone

Four flavours to try, KDE desktop (sort of Windows-like)/Gnome (sort of Mac-like) in either 32bit or 64bit.

FTP/HTTP mirrors available, no need for bittorrent.
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Message 621409 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 22:26:05 UTC - in response to Message 620895.  

Just curious......
Does anybody have any experience if Linux is more immune to being trashed when an OC goes bad?
I am having a heck of a time getting my 2nd quad rig running again after it crashed and trashed winxp (again). I know this is my problem caused by ram errors, but just wondered it Linux recovered more gracefully from it.


I'm a 'doze guy from way back, but PDP's and VAX's before that...

I've tried Fedora, Debian, Mandriva, SUSE, and several others. Best one I've found, and (for me), the most easy one to get up and running, and then be able to use (in)frequently is Ubuntu. It's Debian based.

I've got a dual-core AMD machine running BOINC (Rosetta, EAH, BURP and CPDN) on Ubuntu, and it's as easy to manage as any of my WinXP boxes. I'm not running SAH on it right now, because I'm sharing my machines among several projects, and SETI is running on others.

As far as getting BOINC running on Ubuntu, there's a pre-built BOINC pkg (v 5.4.11) that will automatically set it up to run (like a service on Windows).
To upgrade versions, just copy down the new BOINC version from Berkeley, and replace the BOINC binaries with the latest versions. All the data files and project files live in the BOINC directories.

PM me if you run into any issues, but I'm sure the 64-bit SMP version will easily take care of your quaddy...

Mark
Mark

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Message 621412 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 22:36:06 UTC - in response to Message 621409.  

Well,

i can only recommend one distribution for a linux newbee.
Go for OpenSuSE 10.2.

Since your trying to use everclocked HW and your not familiar with any linux at all...

It's your best choice.

Using the whole Debian based crap can be a pain in the As*...
That includes Kubuntu(Xubuntu) or whatever those are called...

Those where hacked a few days ago( Project servers) cuz upgrading would have caused "incompatibility" ...

If you ask me, that's a major problem of all debian based linux ditros...
Don't use it.

Same goes for Mandrake aka Madriva ... communtity support can cost you ...
Money... useless

If you never used linux before... use OpenSuSE...
(AND btw... rule out any compatibility issues using that one cuz all optimized apps where build on openSuSE ... -> 32 bit on 9.2 and 64 bit on 10.2)

Get on the safe side without major head**** ... Use the OS on wich the app was build on...

For newbees ... SuSE is still the perfect choice ...




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Message 621470 - Posted: 17 Aug 2007, 23:46:32 UTC
Last modified: 17 Aug 2007, 23:47:14 UTC

Well,

i can only recommend one distribution for a linux newbee.
Go for OpenSuSE 10.2.

Since your trying to use everclocked HW and your not familiar with any linux at all...

It's your best choice.

Using the whole Debian based crap can be a pain in the As*...
That includes Kubuntu(Xubuntu) or whatever those are called...

Those where hacked a few days ago( Project servers) cuz upgrading would have caused "incompatibility" ...

If you ask me, that's a major problem of all debian based linux ditros...
Don't use it.

Same goes for Mandrake aka Madriva ... communtity support can cost you ...
Money... useless

If you never used linux before... use OpenSuSE...
(AND btw... rule out any compatibility issues using that one cuz all optimized apps where build on openSuSE ... -> 32 bit on 9.2 and 64 bit on 10.2)

Get on the safe side without major head**** ... Use the OS on wich the app was build on...

For newbees ... SuSE is still the perfect choice ...



SuSE was ok BEFORE they were bought by Novell. No doubt.

But those 'enterprise features' Novell pushed in made it unusable as a Desktop system.

Updating really is pain - taking minutes to just search the local rpm-db... not to mention the installation itself.

Might be ok if you only use the command line... but everything else - no go!

I just think about the KDE 'Start menue' that filled the whole(!) 1024 x 768 screen... even someone who knows Linux gets confused bot that.


BTW, Crunch3r - your apps work very well on Debian based Distros! Good job!

mic.


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Message 621638 - Posted: 18 Aug 2007, 2:30:29 UTC - in response to Message 621470.  
Last modified: 18 Aug 2007, 2:34:47 UTC


SuSE was ok BEFORE they were bought by Novell. No doubt.

It was even before that ... Ever tested those Enterprise versions (SLES7,8)?


Updating really is pain - taking minutes to just search the local rpm-db... not to mention the installation itself.


Hmmm that one should rebuild itself with the cron job... same as the "locate"



Might be ok if you only use the command line... but everything else - no go!
I just think about the KDE 'Start menue' that filled the whole(!) 1024 x 768 screen... even someone who knows Linux gets confused bot that.


installed it in vmware... X window with KDE work right out of the boxs ... not even installing vmware tool was needed ... it worked...


BTW, Crunch3r - your apps work very well on Debian based Distros! Good job!


Yeah, that took a lot of tweaking... actually the first attempt to build the 2.2b source on linux, was done on debian sarge... BIG FAILURE...

it failed miserably... due to the fact debian based distros are about a half or a more than a year behind actuall development on linux...

THEY SUCK /...

Using an old Suse 9.2 worked out of the box ... no issues no pestering with unusually old glibc verisons like (debian,ubutu etc ...) ... well it worked ...

Same goes for the 64 bit one ... unable to build a usefull app on ubuntu (yeah i tried that one...)

However that same issues that were breaking a usefull build on 32 bit on ANY debian/ubuntu (ending with a SEGV) ..DID break the 32 bit apps as well... unusually old glibc versions (2.25 xx what the f...) etc ...

CONCLUSION....

1.
If you got now idea what linux is all about and still wanna try ---> OpenSuSE...

2.
got some (few) experience --> FEDORA CORE

3. That one is difficult ... dependinf on how your experience was with 1. and 2. go for Gentoo.

It's for professional users that know what their doing... though it was 2 years ago...

To bad that any noob can install it now to HD from a live CD...

Probably i'll have to go to No 4. keeping away those bableing noobs that claim to know how to handle gentoo..


4. HARD CORE !!! YEAH BABY !
we do all on our own and use LFS !!!

Never heard of it ? go back to No. 2 ... come back after 2-4 years --- then you'll know.








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Message 621718 - Posted: 18 Aug 2007, 4:59:36 UTC

I'll put in my support for SuSE as well. I'm a Gnome guy, and Gnome/SuSE is a really nice combination. I'm using Enterprise Desktop and Server 10 (which is openSuSE 10.2, by the way) and BOINC runs great. As far as the argument about packages and which distro is best, I really do like RPMs over the Debian packages. The nifty thing about SuSE is YaST. It's basically the equivalent of the Control Panel in Windows. I haven't found any other distros that have anything remotely similar to YaST.

SuSE does take a little over an hour to do the installation from beginning to end, but I find that it is well worth it in the end. Ubuntu is very nice as far as simplicity and everyday tasks (browsing the web and that's about it), but again, the package and system configuration methods are a bit scattered. With Debian, I've tried different versions (31r3, 4, and 5) and I just can't get a GUI out of it. I tell it to install with one, it installs the GUI, but it always boots into text-mode, and that's it. Aside from that, I don't like how the Debian-based distros don't use the runlevels properly.

Windows 2000 and SuSE in dual-boot is a very nice combination.
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Message 621820 - Posted: 18 Aug 2007, 8:11:50 UTC

I am using SuSE 10.1 running Einstein, SETI and QMC on an old PII Deschutes with 320 MB RAM. I like to compile programs such as Mplayer and mplayerplug-in and watch NASA broadcasts and Apple Quicktime film trailers. If and when my system crashes I shall install SuSE 10.2 and start all over again. Cheers.
Tullio
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