Initial tasks in Work Unit just gone down to TWO

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Sirius B Project Donor
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Message 617508 - Posted: 10 Aug 2007, 12:41:52 UTC - in response to Message 617359.  
Last modified: 10 Aug 2007, 12:43:55 UTC

[quote
You were really doing well 'till the next part, the Linux guys are not happy, lol

Sorry Philadelphia.

I have been using MS since DOS 3.3 right up to Vista (which is where I think MS has made a major error)

I like what I have seen on friends machines & I have tried various versions of Linux but just cannot get it right. I even have a full 6 disk version of Red Hat Fedora but every time I try to install, it causes problems & aborts.

At the moment, I will stick with MS, but for you Linux guys, the day will come when I get the time to really study it & when that happens, GOODBYE WINDOZE!

In the meantime, if it works, don't fix it & let them numbers crunch.
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Message 617509 - Posted: 10 Aug 2007, 13:07:03 UTC - in response to Message 617508.  

[quote
You were really doing well 'till the next part, the Linux guys are not happy, lol

Sorry Philadelphia.

I have been using MS since DOS 3.3 right up to Vista (which is where I think MS has made a major error)

I like what I have seen on friends machines & I have tried various versions of Linux but just cannot get it right. I even have a full 6 disk version of Red Hat Fedora but every time I try to install, it causes problems & aborts.

At the moment, I will stick with MS, but for you Linux guys, the day will come when I get the time to really study it & when that happens, GOODBYE WINDOZE!

In the meantime, if it works, don't fix it & let them numbers crunch.


I'm using Vista Ultimeate on my E6600.

My understanding is it takes some time to learn Linux. While I'm sure it's a great O/S, I don't have the time to learn it.

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Message 617528 - Posted: 10 Aug 2007, 14:34:55 UTC - in response to Message 617509.  


quote]I'm using Vista Ultimeate on my E6600.

My understanding is it takes some time to learn Linux. While I'm sure it's a great O/S, I don't have the time to learn it.
[/quote]

Several months ago, I installed Vista Ultimate on my main machine. It killed my xp setup. I had to reformat & reinstall.

Vista does not like dual booting. It has problems with drivers & I hate the UAC amongst other things.

I have Vista running under VMWare as I need to understand it so that I can help my customers.

Personally, I will wait until 2010 when "Vienna" is released as XP will be supported until 2011.

My brother (A long time IT Specialist) has his network running on Linux & it is fantastic. Admittingly he has problems now & again but there are people out there that work on & release drivers, updates etc pretty damn quick compared to MS.

Vista has been in development 5 years and released commercially for over 6 months now, & there are still major problems.

It is because of problems like this with MS that I eventually want to move to Linux, but like you, I cannot afford the time at the moment.

I bet the Linux guys enjoy this post!
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Message 617530 - Posted: 10 Aug 2007, 14:42:54 UTC - in response to Message 617528.  


My brother (A long time IT Specialist) has his network running on Linux & it is fantastic. Admittingly he has problems now & again but there are people out there that work on & release drivers, updates etc pretty damn quick compared to MS.

Vista has been in development 5 years and released commercially for over 6 months now, & there are still major problems.

It is because of problems like this with MS that I eventually want to move to Linux, but like you, I cannot afford the time at the moment.

I bet the Linux guys enjoy this post!

Modern Linux distros have a GUI like KDE or Gnome that are very close to a Windows or Mac interface. I use a dual boot system with both Linux and Windows 98SE. First I installed Windows, the Linux and my SuSE Linux, using the Grub bootloader, did not erase Windows. I don't know Windows XP or Vista and cannot give advice. But Linux forums give plenty of advice on installing a dual boot system.
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Message 617724 - Posted: 11 Aug 2007, 0:40:53 UTC - in response to Message 617530.  


Modern Linux distros have a GUI like KDE or Gnome that are very close to a Windows or Mac interface. I use a dual boot system with both Linux and Windows 98SE. First I installed Windows, the Linux and my SuSE Linux, using the Grub bootloader, did not erase Windows. I don't know Windows XP or Vista and cannot give advice. But Linux forums give plenty of advice on installing a dual boot system.
Tullio


I already tried that using SuSE 9.1 which I quite liked, especially KDE.

Unfortunately, I don't know how, but it messed up the mft & could not access XP. The same happened with Red Hat Fedora.

Since I learned the hard way nearly 20 years ago, I maintain a regular backup.

So it was simply a matter of reformatting & reinstalling. Until Linux becomes as simple as windows to install, I'll stick with MS - better the devil you know...
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Message 617928 - Posted: 11 Aug 2007, 10:45:01 UTC

Worth starting a thread on Linux?
This thread has gone somewhat off course.
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Message 617954 - Posted: 11 Aug 2007, 12:04:35 UTC - in response to Message 617928.  

Worth starting a thread on Linux?
This thread has gone somewhat off course.

It might be an idea. I use Linux with SETI, Einstein and QMC.
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Message 617959 - Posted: 11 Aug 2007, 12:18:05 UTC - in response to Message 617724.  
Last modified: 11 Aug 2007, 12:20:17 UTC


Unfortunately, I don't know how, but it messed up the mft & could not access XP. The same happened with Red Hat Fedora.

Since I learned the hard way nearly 20 years ago, I maintain a regular backup.

So it was simply a matter of reformatting & reinstalling. Until Linux becomes as simple as windows to install, I'll stick with MS - better the devil you know...

When I started working with Unix in the first Eighties on an Onyx computer, hard disks were called Winchester and held 20 MB at most. They were very fragile and we used an incremental backup on 10 MB tapes. No floppy disks. Now PCs have floppies and no tapes, so almost nobody makes a backup. There were two simple commands on the Berkeley Unix Software distribution, "dump" and "restore". Anybody could use them. Then the "Office for complicating simple matters" mentality took over. Cheers.
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Message 619288 - Posted: 14 Aug 2007, 23:16:10 UTC - in response to Message 617959.  
Last modified: 14 Aug 2007, 23:17:02 UTC

[/quote]
When I started working with Unix in the first Eighties on an Onyx computer, hard disks were called Winchester and held 20 MB at most. They were very fragile and we used an incremental backup on 10 MB tapes. No floppy disks. Now PCs have floppies and no tapes, so almost nobody makes a backup. There were two simple commands on the Berkeley Unix Software distribution, "dump" and "restore". Anybody could use them. Then the "Office for complicating simple matters" mentality took over. Cheers.
Tullio[/quote]

Nice one Tullio. You're spot on! The number of customers coming to me weeping that they can't access their USB pen drives for their data, or having only 1 drive with just the C partition - Windoze messes up - bye bye data!

On all the systems built for customers, regardless of the size of the drive, I partition it & on setting it up in their homes, put My Documents on D:.

That way when they call me to tell me their system is down, if it reqires a reinstall, job done with no loss of data.

From the amount of posts in the threads on this forum, many people have mutiple systems - I hope that they have some form of backup.
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Message 626946 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 7:22:15 UTC

Is it still 2 right?

In that case does anyone know why a third result is issued on almost every Wu for this host sins I swiched to the new MAC opt.

Anders n
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Message 626973 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 9:08:56 UTC - in response to Message 626946.  

Is it still 2 right?

In that case does anyone know why a third result is issued on almost every Wu for this host sins I swiched to the new MAC opt.

Anders n



The 3rd WU always goes out after the first 2 have come back - meaning they are failing validation. Looks like a problem with your host.

BTW - I can't understand why the "Initial Replication" value changes when the 3rd WU is sent out. I would have thought this value would have reflected what it says; i.e. the INITIAL Replication.
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Message 626975 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 9:27:03 UTC

Looks like the results you're getting are subtly different from the results generated by the stock application. They must be 'weakly similar', because all three copies are getting granted credit in the end: but some of them aren't 'strongly similar' or they would validate at the first attempt.

That's unlikely to be a problem with your machine - I would expect problems like overheating to cause bigger errors than that. T7400 - portable, right? Have you checked for cooling/airflow?

But I would watch, and see if other Mac users report the same effect after upgrading. If it seems to be a common issue, post over at the Team MacNN forum (where you got the new opt app from), and see if you can attract Alex's attention to come and have a look at it.
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Message 626976 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 9:30:28 UTC - in response to Message 626973.  

The 3rd WU always goes out after the first 2 have come back - meaning they are failing validation. Looks like a problem with your host.

...


Thats what I was afraid of. Still no result that not validated tho. More info anyone?

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Message 626978 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 9:33:29 UTC - in response to Message 626975.  
Last modified: 26 Aug 2007, 9:35:08 UTC

Looks like the results you're getting are subtly different from the results generated by the stock application. They must be 'weakly similar', because all three copies are getting granted credit in the end: but some of them aren't 'strongly similar' or they would validate at the first attempt.

That's unlikely to be a problem with your machine - I would expect problems like overheating to cause bigger errors than that. T7400 - portable, right? Have you checked for cooling/airflow?

But I would watch, and see if other Mac users report the same effect after upgrading. If it seems to be a common issue, post over at the Team MacNN forum (where you got the new opt app from), and see if you can attract Alex's attention to come and have a look at it.


It's a IMAC :)

No cooling problem. This started after changing to the new opt. MAC application by Alex Kan.
Edit
Will post there if this continues. Thanks.
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Message 626991 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 10:31:56 UTC
Last modified: 26 Aug 2007, 10:58:38 UTC

Glad to see this thread is back and on subject.

It may be of interest to note that there seems to have been a batch of work units issued on Aug 24th with 3 initial tasks!

There is, at present a most annoying initial situation. 2 initial tasks are created, and only one is sent. Following that, it seems that the second task is only sent after the first is completed.

To test what was happening here, I suspended a task to see how long it would be for the unsent task to be sent. After waiting some time, I lost patience and aborted. I was then amazed to find that a new task was sent immediately (being the old unsent task), that task being sent to another host with a new unsent task now still sitting in the work unit.

And another work unit takes a little bit of understanding with slow-plodder WU_2 still left alongside an unsent task. Take note of the times sent and times completed for each of the full compliment of 5 tasks allowed:-

application SETI@home Enhanced
created 23 Aug 2007 7:11:01 UTC
name 10ja07ab.23938.18477.5.5.44
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success results 5, 10, 5
Result ID
click for details Computer Sent Time reported
or deadline
explain Server state
explain Outcome
explain Client state
explain CPU time (sec) claimed credit granted credit
599446663 --- --- --- Unsent Unknown New --- --- --- WU_4
597377892 2680207 23 Aug 2007 17:58:24 UTC 25 Aug 2007 12:42:02 UTC Over Client error Aborted by user 0.00 0.00 --- WU_1
597648463 204563 23 Aug 2007 23:31:45 UTC 1 Sep 2007 15:51:45 UTC In Progress Unknown New --- --- --- WU-2
599113136 1863616 25 Aug 2007 23:39:15 UTC 25 Aug 2007 23:41:55 UTC Over Client error Downloading 0.00 0.00 --- WU_3
597377891 2843932 23 Aug 2007 16:02:57 UTC 23 Aug 2007 16:05:26 UTC Over Client error Downloading 0.00 0.00 --- WU_0

This persistent use of an unsent task with the 2/2 work unit system must go a long way to account for my pending credit rising from about 800 to about 4,000, just as many others have been reporting.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=597377891

Keith
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Message 626995 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 11:15:27 UTC - in response to Message 626991.  

Glad to see this thread is back and on subject.

It may be of interest to note that there seems to have been a batch of work units issued on Aug 24th with 3 initial tasks!

There is, at present a most annoying initial situation. 2 initial tasks are created, and only one is sent. Following that, it seems that the second task is only sent after the first is completed.

To test what was happening here, I suspended a task to see how long it would be for the unsent task to be sent. After waiting some time, I lost patience and aborted. I was then amazed to find that a new task was sent immediately (being the old unsent task), that task being sent to another host with a new unsent task now still sitting in the work unit.

And another work unit takes a little bit of understanding with slow-plodder WU_2 still left alongside an unsent task. Take note of the times sent and times completed for each of the full compliment of 5 tasks allowed:-

application SETI@home Enhanced
created 23 Aug 2007 7:11:01 UTC
name 10ja07ab.23938.18477.5.5.44
minimum quorum 2
initial replication 2
max # of error/total/success results 5, 10, 5
Result ID
click for details Computer Sent Time reported
or deadline
explain Server state
explain Outcome
explain Client state
explain CPU time (sec) claimed credit granted credit
599446663 --- --- --- Unsent Unknown New --- --- --- WU_4
597377892 2680207 23 Aug 2007 17:58:24 UTC 25 Aug 2007 12:42:02 UTC Over Client error Aborted by user 0.00 0.00 --- WU_1
597648463 204563 23 Aug 2007 23:31:45 UTC 1 Sep 2007 15:51:45 UTC In Progress Unknown New --- --- --- WU-2
599113136 1863616 25 Aug 2007 23:39:15 UTC 25 Aug 2007 23:41:55 UTC Over Client error Downloading 0.00 0.00 --- WU_3
597377891 2843932 23 Aug 2007 16:02:57 UTC 23 Aug 2007 16:05:26 UTC Over Client error Downloading 0.00 0.00 --- WU_0

This persistent use of an unsent task with the 2/2 work unit system must go a long way to account for my pending credit rising from about 800 to about 4,000, just as many others have been reporting.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=597377891

Keith


There is nothing wrong in the way this set of results was created.
2 where created at the same time but where send out seperate because of the odd/even server problem.

The other 3 where each created to replace a result with a error.
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Message 627040 - Posted: 26 Aug 2007, 13:18:33 UTC - in response to Message 626973.  

BTW - I can't understand why the "Initial Replication" value changes when the 3rd WU is sent out. I would have thought this value would have reflected what it says; i.e. the INITIAL Replication.

It's called "initial replication" on the web-pages, but in database it's called target_nresults.

The Validator increasing target_nresults if fails validation with "no consensus yet", is an easy way to get Transitioner to generate a new "result".

Some projects like SIMAP is using a similar method to send-out an extra copy before deadline, to speed-up validation.

"I make so many mistakes. But then just think of all the mistakes I don't make, although I might."
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Message boards : Number crunching : Initial tasks in Work Unit just gone down to TWO


 
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