America gets Quized

Message boards : Politics : America gets Quized
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 613778 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 1:00:13 UTC - in response to Message 613745.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 1:01:25 UTC

Well, If I had money to share I would share it. I don't know where you take your paranoia of being forced from. Better the government invests into education and health care than into secret services, war and SDI.

Well, that's what you think, but you always seem to conveniently forget the second part: that the system that provides dollars for education and health care is the same system that provides dollars for secret services, war and SDI. That's the fatal flaw. There's no paranoia at all. You want to force me to pay for your silly education plan, others want to force me to pay for their silly wars. That's not paranoia, that's simply reality.

As I pointed out above, I, personally , am not able to - if I were I happily would do and enforce it.

No, you aren't able to. So you can't. But, even though you aren't able to earn the type of money that would allow you to provide such things, others are supposed to follow your ideas? They should accept it on your word alone? I mean, what possibly gives you the rights to enforce such ideas on others that do not agree with you?

That you would use force to "enforce it?" Of that I have no doubt.

Hint: this is why there had to be a wall with the machine guns pointing inward...
I think I don't have to comment this one. I'm over the state of being too blinded to see that this was wrong.

You need to see not only that it was wrong, you need to see why such a wall was necessary. That is the important part.

Sometimes I suppose they deliberately put the education standard lower for public schools than for the expensive private schools - because a stupid People is more manipulatable.

Oooh, next we move into paranoid fantasy... "The gov't provides student loans to keep the proles DOWN!!!"
Sure, student loans - and how high are the rates and interests when it comes to pay them back? Those students have debts as soon as they finish studying!

Well, let's see. The average rate is 4%. Until recently it was 2.3%. Most of mine are locked in at 2.3%. So yes, they are loans. And they are about the cheapest loans available. And they are signature loans, no credit check necessary. No minimum income necessary. Will they pay for Harvard? No. Will they pay for state schools? Yes.

That they have debt when they finish studying? Who cares? The loans have a minimum 6 month deferment period, easily expandable to 9 months. There are further forbearances after that. There are forgiveness programs for those that go into helping professions.

Knowledge is power. They who have more knowledge have power over those who have less knowledge. Now think again and tell me why it should be the leftists who want this negative trend.

Most simply: because you advocate for BS gov't programs that are poorly run, have no accountability, crush those that need them the most, and remove the ability of people to choose. Take for example, public education. Like we are talking about in this thread. It is the left that fights any change here. They fight removing unions, they fight vouchers, they fight accountability, they fight everything except the status quo. That's why.

If the unions are really deputizing for the workers - so why should they be fought against?

The unions are for maintaining the status quo at any cost. They don't care as long as their members cannot be fired, held accountable, cannot be punished--in other words, they are for the union. That is not the best way to teach children.

mentioning the vouchers: If they provided generally free education, from kindergarten up to university - there were no need for them.

Ohferchrissakes. There is a need, regardless of the cost. The vouchers are a way of providing a public school system where the parents can choose schools for their children, and remove their funding from those skools that fail them. Kinda like how you get fed up with your mobile phone provider and go somewhere else.

mentioning accountability, I can only think of corporate accountability, and that each company should be called to account for their incomes (including wins and subventions) vs their investments and salary risings, their hirings and firings (and their reasons of firing - they better had good reasons!), and especially their wins. And why they think not to share their win with their employees. This kind of accountability is something to fight for :-)

Ummmm, that really has no bearing on what we are talking about. If you don't want to finance a corporation, don't buy it's products, or it's stock. Since you are free to do that, there is no need for any of the above. If you disagree with how it is run, don't deal with them. The only people who have any interest are the shareholders, if they're happy, nothing else matters. I mean, if Nike knows you won't buy their product, don't own their stock, don't work for the company, et cetera, why the hell would they even think to listen to you?

With public education (the topic at hand), you are forced to pay for it, even if you don't have kids. You can't walk away. You can't refuse to pay. And that's the point--you cannot walk away, even if you wanted to. If you do, the gov't shows up with guns, and then you'll really pay. Once again, the hint returns: this is why they built a wall.
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...
ID: 613778 · Report as offensive
Profile BrainSmashR
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 02
Posts: 1772
Credit: 384,573
RAC: 0
United States
Message 613821 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 2:34:05 UTC - in response to Message 613745.  

Well, If I had money to share I would share it. I don't know where you take your paranoia of being forced from. Better the government invests into education and health care than into secret services, war and SDI.


Guess what, if I had extra money, I'd share it too, but my fridge died 2 weeks ago, the brakes on my car are starting to squeal, and I found a leaking water pipe under my house this morning....not to mention I'd like to retire one day instead of working until I die.

And THAT'S why communism fails every time.




ID: 613821 · Report as offensive
Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 613961 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 9:40:46 UTC - in response to Message 613778.  

Well, If I had money to share I would share it. I don't know where you take your paranoia of being forced from. Better the government invests into education and health care than into secret services, war and SDI.

Well, that's what you think, but you always seem to conveniently forget the second part: that the system that provides dollars for education and health care is the same system that provides dollars for secret services, war and SDI. That's the fatal flaw. There's no paranoia at all. You want to force me to pay for your silly education plan, others want to force me to pay for their silly wars. That's not paranoia, that's simply reality.
Well, when you are discontent to what your government is spending your Dollars for, vote them off and elect a new one. You don't do that, so you seem to think it's okay to see them spend your tax money for dictatory stuff

As I pointed out above, I, personally , am not able to - if I were I happily would do and enforce it.

No, you aren't able to. So you can't. But, even though you aren't able to earn the type of money that would allow you to provide such things, others are supposed to follow your ideas? They should accept it on your word alone? I mean, what possibly gives you the rights to enforce such ideas on others that do not agree with you?

That you would use force to "enforce it?" Of that I have no doubt.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding due to missing vocabulary on my side. I would use no force, but I would teach by example, and would talk the people into spending their money likewise.

Hint: this is why there had to be a wall with the machine guns pointing inward...
I think I don't have to comment this one. I'm over the state of being too blinded to see that this was wrong.

You need to see not only that it was wrong, you need to see why such a wall was necessary. That is the important part.
I know why it was "necessary" - I learned it from history, from all sides: the official East German side, the official West German side, and from several independent sides. While Wall and borders were right (dividing two different countries using two different systems from each other), the machine guns and mines were just wrong - after a couple of years.

Sometimes I suppose they deliberately put the education standard lower for public schools than for the expensive private schools - because a stupid People is more manipulatable.

Oooh, next we move into paranoid fantasy... "The gov't provides student loans to keep the proles DOWN!!!"
Sure, student loans - and how high are the rates and interests when it comes to pay them back? Those students have debts as soon as they finish studying!

Well, let's see. The average rate is 4%. Until recently it was 2.3%. Most of mine are locked in at 2.3%. So yes, they are loans. And they are about the cheapest loans available. And they are signature loans, no credit check necessary. No minimum income necessary. Will they pay for Harvard? No. Will they pay for state schools? Yes.

That they have debt when they finish studying? Who cares? The loans have a minimum 6 month deferment period, easily expandable to 9 months. There are further forbearances after that. There are forgiveness programs for those that go into helping professions.
But still they have debts, and still some have to work to afford their own education.

Knowledge is power. They who have more knowledge have power over those who have less knowledge. Now think again and tell me why it should be the leftists who want this negative trend.

Most simply: because you advocate for BS gov't programs that are poorly run, have no accountability, crush those that need them the most, and remove the ability of people to choose. Take for example, public education. Like we are talking about in this thread. It is the left that fights any change here. They fight removing unions, they fight vouchers, they fight accountability, they fight everything except the status quo. That's why.

If the unions are really deputizing for the workers - so why should they be fought against?

The unions are for maintaining the status quo at any cost. They don't care as long as their members cannot be fired, held accountable, cannot be punished--in other words, they are for the union.
Well - that's the difference between American and German unions: German unions help the employees in general, but unfortunately they lost much of their influence, too.
That is not the best way to teach children.
Why? What's wrong with solidarity, mutual help, a save job, more rights for employers?

mentioning the vouchers: If they provided generally free education, from kindergarten up to university - there were no need for them.

Ohferchrissakes. There is a need, regardless of the cost. The vouchers are a way of providing a public school system where the parents can choose schools for their children, and remove their funding from those skools that fail them. Kinda like how you get fed up with your mobile phone provider and go somewhere else.
Well, if you don't have to pay for school you can change whenever you think it's right. Just send your kid to another school. There's still the free choice.

mentioning accountability, I can only think of corporate accountability, and that each company should be called to account for their incomes (including wins and subventions) vs their investments and salary risings, their hirings and firings (and their reasons of firing - they better had good reasons!), and especially their wins. And why they think not to share their win with their employees. This kind of accountability is something to fight for :-)

Ummmm, that really has no bearing on what we are talking about.
Okay, then the misunderstanding was on my side once more.
If you don't want to finance a corporation, don't buy it's products, or it's stock. Since you are free to do that, there is no need for any of the above. If you disagree with how it is run, don't deal with them. The only people who have any interest are the shareholders, if they're happy, nothing else matters.
That's the main failure in economics. Not the short-term raise of the shares matters but the middle- or long-term progress of the company. Too many companies have been closed down because of a momentary weakness of the shares though they had enough turn-over and/or enough export orders to get over it. In my opinion they should forbid this entire stock-exchange biz -- or treat it worse than gambling.
I mean, if Nike knows you won't buy their product, don't own their stock, don't work for the company, et cetera, why the hell would they even think to listen to you?
To get me as their customer? I learned that each non-customer is a potential customer. You only have to find a way to reach them.

With public education (the topic at hand), you are forced to pay for it, even if you don't have kids. You can't walk away. You can't refuse to pay.
That's what taxes are for: to pay for things everyone can have their use from. And education is a thing everyone can use. Be it "first education" (kindergarten, school, university) or "secondary education" (like evening classes for adults - the way I study at the moment). Education brings advantage to everyone. What use are secret services, wars, the SDI program for Mr. Average American Guy? They brought only evil according to what I learned.
________________________________

Well, If I had money to share I would share it. I don't know where you take your paranoia of being forced from. Better the government invests into education and health care than into secret services, war and SDI.


Guess what, if I had extra money, I'd share it too, but my fridge died 2 weeks ago, the brakes on my car are starting to squeal, and I found a leaking water pipe under my house this morning....not to mention I'd like to retire one day instead of working until I die.

And THAT'S why communism fails every time.
See, I don't even own a car nor a house. And the fridge in my kitchen is part of the flat I rented. If it breaks I have to ask my landlord to have it repaired -- and it has nothing to do with communism. But it has to do with poverty.
Account frozen...
ID: 613961 · Report as offensive
Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 613999 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 11:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 613976.  

Well, BrainSmashR, before you call me names you should know more about me than just my actual financial situation. And whether or not I have a lazy ass is also not your biz.
FYI: I often took the first best job available just to get a job asap - which mostly was temporary working, which couldn't really improve my situation long-term. But it was a job then. Actually I study in evening classes to have the chance to work on day.

No, I advocate communism because I think it's the best possible system, because it puts solidarity over egoism, mutual respect over arrogance, inner wealth over financial wealth ...


Btw: There is no direct relationship between wealth and character. People don't get automatically a better character the wealthier they are. Sometimes it's quite the opposite. I met poor people, and I met rich people. There were less righteous people among the rich ones. Guess why. >> Hint: Scrooge
Account frozen...
ID: 613999 · Report as offensive
Profile BrainSmashR
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 02
Posts: 1772
Credit: 384,573
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614010 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 11:50:27 UTC - in response to Message 613999.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 12:01:43 UTC

Well, BrainSmashR, before you call me names you should know more about me than just my actual financial situation. And whether or not I have a lazy ass is also not your biz.
FYI: I often took the first best job available just to get a job asap - which mostly was temporary working, which couldn't really improve my situation long-term. But it was a job then. Actually I study in evening classes to have the chance to work on day.


I don't have to know anything MORE about you. You either lack the skills/education/ability/desire to work, or are too old/feeble and didn't properly prepare for your future.


No, I advocate communism because I think it's the best possible system, because it puts solidarity over egoism, mutual respect over arrogance, inner wealth over financial wealth ...


Yeah well there's this thing called History that PROVES your opinion of communism being the "best" possible system, as being 100% wrong

Btw: There is no direct relationship between wealth and character. People don't get automatically a better character the wealthier they are. Sometimes it's quite the opposite. I met poor people, and I met rich people. There were less righteous people among the rich ones. Guess why. >> Hint: Scrooge


Ummm, I'm a yard crew supervisor for government housing, either our ideas of being rich differ greatly, or you're an uninformed foreigner making assumptions. My current income is about $25k a year....if the converter was right, about 18603.97 German Euros. You don't have to be rich to own a home and a car, but you do have to make sacrifices....did you catch the hint?

You see, I work in the projects making life better for the "less fortunate" in our society....which is easily comprised of nearly 50% slackers like you and Jeffery. Fully capable of holding down some type of job but they choose not to, because even in a bassackwards country like America, we don't let people starve and freeze in the street....we provide them with brick homes and food stamps at the expense of the WORKING man....but as I've indicated before, THEY have to get off THEIR lazy "butts", apply for housing, and follow the rules.





ID: 614010 · Report as offensive
Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 614028 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 12:40:53 UTC - in response to Message 614010.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 12:46:44 UTC

Well, BrainSmashR, before you call me names you should know more about me than just my actual financial situation. And whether or not I have a lazy ass is also not your biz.
FYI: I often took the first best job available just to get a job asap - which mostly was temporary working, which couldn't really improve my situation long-term. But it was a job then. Actually I study in evening classes to have the chance to work on day.


I don't have to know anything MORE about you. You either lack the skills/education/ability/desire to work, or are too old/feeble and didn't properly prepare for your future.
Sure: too old with 40! And lacking skills/education/ability/desire with 5 different "skilled worker" qualifications, with taking each chance to get a job asap, with studying in the evening instead of day-time to ave time for an 8hr- job;


No, I advocate communism because I think it's the best possible system, because it puts solidarity over egoism, mutual respect over arrogance, inner wealth over financial wealth ...


Yeah well there's this thing called History that PROVES your opinion of communism being the "best" possible system, as being 100% wrong
As I told many times before: In the last centuries there has been nothing like a real communist state anywhere in the world -- How these states named themselves or were seen by right-wing and arch-conservative people, that's another subject. But except some local experiments (even in the States) there has no communism appeared yet in the "civilized" part of the world.


Btw: There is no direct relationship between wealth and character. People don't get automatically a better character the wealthier they are. Sometimes it's quite the opposite. I met poor people, and I met rich people. There were less righteous people among the rich ones. Guess why. >> Hint: Scrooge


Ummm, I'm a yard crew supervisor for government housing, either our ideas of being rich differ greatly, or you're an uninformed foreigner making assumptions.
Well, the richest persons I've met and discussed in real life had an income between 0.5 and 2 millions a year, one person I had a 30 minutes discussion with even had more, being a successful actor/producer. I think that's rich already, ain't it? And the poorest people I met had to spend their nights in Rescue Missions or Shelters or on the streets.
My income is about $25k a year....if the converter was right, about 18603.97 German Euros. You don't have to be rich to own a home and a car, but you do have to make sacrifices....did you catch the hint?
I know about such sacrifices. I even sacrificed my family against a job. Well you don't have to be rich, but when you aren't, the house or car don't belong to you as long as the last rate and interest ain't paid off.

You see, I work in the projects making life better for the "less fortunate" in our society....which is easily comprised of nearly 50% slackers like you and Jeffery. Fully capable of holding down some type of job but they choose not to, because even in a bassackwards country like America, we don't let people starve and freeze in the street....we provide them with brick homes and food stamps at the expense of the WORKING man....but as I've indicated before, THEY have to get off THEIR lazy ass, apply for housing, and follow the rules.
Provide them with a job, with money, with an existence worth the name, with a future - and you'll help them more than with food stamps and Shelters. And, more important: listen to them instead of just judging them. You'll learn a lot about how your beloved system really works. Maybe you can become one of them if you don't care.

Account frozen...
ID: 614028 · Report as offensive
MrGray
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614195 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 16:37:52 UTC
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 16:38:08 UTC


SETI... So easy, even a caveman can do it.



.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
ID: 614195 · Report as offensive
Profile BrainSmashR
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 02
Posts: 1772
Credit: 384,573
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614208 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 16:56:49 UTC - in response to Message 614195.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 16:57:39 UTC


SETI... So easy, even a caveman can do it.



.


I suppose that's why those of us "in the know" about the science NOT backing SETI have moved on to other projects while you're still wasting CPU cycles.

Notice the VAST difference in our RAC....


ID: 614208 · Report as offensive
MrGray
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614211 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 17:01:56 UTC

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one



.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
ID: 614211 · Report as offensive
Profile BrainSmashR
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 02
Posts: 1772
Credit: 384,573
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614214 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 17:07:21 UTC - in response to Message 614028.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 17:13:57 UTC

Well, BrainSmashR, before you call me names you should know more about me than just my actual financial situation. And whether or not I have a lazy ass is also not your biz.
FYI: I often took the first best job available just to get a job asap - which mostly was temporary working, which couldn't really improve my situation long-term. But it was a job then. Actually I study in evening classes to have the chance to work on day.


I don't have to know anything MORE about you. You either lack the skills/education/ability/desire to work, or are too old/feeble and didn't properly prepare for your future.
Sure: too old with 40! And lacking skills/education/ability/desire with 5 different "skilled worker" qualifications, with taking each chance to get a job asap, with studying in the evening instead of day-time to ave time for an 8hr- job;


Do you expect some kind of sympathy from me? Because you're wasting your time....which seems to be a habit.....

No, I advocate communism because I think it's the best possible system, because it puts solidarity over egoism, mutual respect over arrogance, inner wealth over financial wealth ...


Yeah well there's this thing called History that PROVES your opinion of communism being the "best" possible system, as being 100% wrong
As I told many times before: In the last centuries there has been nothing like a real communist state anywhere in the world -- How these states named themselves or were seen by right-wing and arch-conservative people, that's another subject. But except some local experiments (even in the States) there has no communism appeared yet in the "civilized" part of the world.


I see, so your opinion is based on pure fantasy and no factual evidence what so ever.....imagine my surprise.


Btw: There is no direct relationship between wealth and character. People don't get automatically a better character the wealthier they are. Sometimes it's quite the opposite. I met poor people, and I met rich people. There were less righteous people among the rich ones. Guess why. >> Hint: Scrooge


Ummm, I'm a yard crew supervisor for government housing, either our ideas of being rich differ greatly, or you're an uninformed foreigner making assumptions.
Well, the richest persons I've met and discussed in real life had an income between 0.5 and 2 millions a year, one person I had a 30 minutes discussion with even had more, being a successful actor/producer. I think that's rich already, ain't it? And the poorest people I met had to spend their nights in Rescue Missions or Shelters or on the streets.
My income is about $25k a year....if the converter was right, about 18603.97 German Euros. You don't have to be rich to own a home and a car, but you do have to make sacrifices....did you catch the hint?
I know about such sacrifices. I even sacrificed my family against a job. Well you don't have to be rich, but when you aren't, the house or car don't belong to you as long as the last rate and interest ain't paid off.


You are correct, "technically" my house belongs to the bank right now and won't actually be "mine" for another 10 years. Remember my comment earlier about making sacrifices and preparing for the future? I'm indebted over my house and education for about 50k....but in 10 years both of those loans will be paid off and I'll only be 46 years old......will YOU still be complaining about what you DON'T have?

You see, I work in the projects making life better for the "less fortunate" in our society....which is easily comprised of nearly 50% slackers like you and Jeffery. Fully capable of holding down some type of job but they choose not to, because even in a bassackwards country like America, we don't let people starve and freeze in the street....we provide them with brick homes and food stamps at the expense of the WORKING man....but as I've indicated before, THEY have to get off THEIR lazy ass, apply for housing, and follow the rules.
Provide them with a job, with money, with an existence worth the name, with a future - and you'll help them more than with food stamps and Shelters. And, more important: listen to them instead of just judging them. You'll learn a lot about how your beloved system really works. Maybe you can become one of them if you don't care.

Maybe you missed the part about life being a competition. My role is to better myself and my family, not attempt to make some social degenerate who can't pull his own weight, my equal


ID: 614214 · Report as offensive
MrGray
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614225 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 17:36:54 UTC

Life is only a competition until that life attains enlightenment.




.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
ID: 614225 · Report as offensive
Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 614261 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 19:27:34 UTC - in response to Message 614225.  

Life is only a competition until that life attains enlightenment.




.

I'd even say only people with a lack of enlightenment say that life were a competition.
All humans are equal. No matter if poor or rich, young or old. But the fairy-tale of "Social Darwinism" is believed by too many people, so they just don't get it.

(Btw: Darwin would turn around in his grave if he could, learning this misuse of his name)



Account frozen...
ID: 614261 · Report as offensive
MAC

Send message
Joined: 12 Feb 01
Posts: 203
Credit: 58,346
RAC: 0
Czech Republic
Message 614279 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 20:13:28 UTC

C'mon guys, don't take it to the personal level. You can always learn from people with different opinions, even if you don't really understand them.

And people are NOT equal. There are intelligent and stupid, clumsy and sportive, lazy and workaholic, ugly and good looking - whatever, but not equal. Still they (should) have equal rights. A society defines itself how it treats its weaker members - and only who is really strong (may it be the mind, the heart, the body and/or the purse) can afford it to help the weak.
ID: 614279 · Report as offensive
MrGray
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614325 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 21:00:59 UTC

Your right, MAC.



.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
ID: 614325 · Report as offensive
Profile thorin belvrog
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Sep 06
Posts: 6418
Credit: 8,893
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 614342 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 21:20:24 UTC - in response to Message 614279.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 21:22:35 UTC

@MrGray: Sorry that it became off-topic.


@MAC:
C'mon guys, don't take it to the personal level. You can always learn from people with different opinions, even if you don't really understand them.

And people are NOT equal.

I agree - and disagree. According to their conditions, you're right:
There are intelligent and stupid, clumsy and sportive, lazy and workaholic, ugly and good looking - whatever, but not equal.

But according to their "worth" they are equal. There is no human worth more than another human, only in the eyes of fascists. Herrenrasse? Untermenschen? This part of history has ended, fortunately.
Still they (should) have equal rights.
Right! I fully concur!

A society defines itself how it treats its weaker members - and only who is really strong (may it be the mind, the heart, the body and/or the purse) can afford it to help the weak.
When I see how people ignore the homeless, the poor, the weak and the needing - are these people just not strong enough to actually SEE poverty and need?
Account frozen...
ID: 614342 · Report as offensive
Profile BrainSmashR
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 02
Posts: 1772
Credit: 384,573
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614429 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 23:36:41 UTC - in response to Message 614225.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 23:39:46 UTC

Life is only a competition until that life attains enlightenment.




.



You be sure to let us know when "enlightenment" puts food on your table or a roof over your head.


ID: 614429 · Report as offensive
Profile BrainSmashR
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 7 Apr 02
Posts: 1772
Credit: 384,573
RAC: 0
United States
Message 614430 - Posted: 3 Aug 2007, 23:37:55 UTC - in response to Message 614261.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2007, 23:38:26 UTC

Life is only a competition until that life attains enlightenment.




.

I'd even say only people with a lack of enlightenment say that life were a competition.
All humans are equal. No matter if poor or rich, young or old. But the fairy-tale of "Social Darwinism" is believed by too many people, so they just don't get it.

(Btw: Darwin would turn around in his grave if he could, learning this misuse of his name)




If you're my equal, how come you need government hand-outs in order to achieve what I've already accomplished on my own?


ID: 614430 · Report as offensive
Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 614613 - Posted: 4 Aug 2007, 4:44:16 UTC - in response to Message 613961.  
Last modified: 4 Aug 2007, 4:46:35 UTC

Well, when you are discontent to what your government is spending your Dollars for, vote them off and elect a new one. You don't do that, so you seem to think it's okay to see them spend your tax money for dictatory stuff

No, I don't. I don't. I'm not referring to some collective and I cannot determine the gov't single-handedly. What I do do is avoid taxes--like the plague. And since the gov't you love created a tax system that is nearly insane, I can easily lower my total tax rate to far less than the average schlub pays. They get way less. Get it?

I know why it was "necessary" - I learned it from history, from all sides: the official East German side, the official West German side, and from several independent sides. While Wall and borders were right (dividing two different countries using two different systems from each other), the machine guns and mines were just wrong - after a couple of years.

"...the machine guns and mines were just wrong - after a couple of years." That's rich. And really ironic.

It certainly doesn't seem as if you learned why the wall was necessary, since you continually advocate initiating force against others to support your silly ideas.

Oooh, next we move into paranoid fantasy... "The gov't provides student loans to keep the proles DOWN!!!"

Sure, student loans - and how high are the rates and interests when it comes to pay them back? Those students have debts as soon as they finish studying!

Well, let's see. The average rate is 4%. Until recently it was 2.3%. Most of mine are locked in at 2.3%. So yes, they are loans. And they are about the cheapest loans available. And they are signature loans, no credit check necessary. No minimum income necessary. Will they pay for Harvard? No. Will they pay for state schools? Yes.

That they have debt when they finish studying? Who cares? The loans have a minimum 6 month deferment period, easily expandable to 9 months. There are further forbearances after that. There are forgiveness programs for those that go into helping professions.

But still they have debts, and still some have to work to afford their own education.

Duh. So what? Nothing is "free" ever. So people have to work to pay to better themselves, big deal.

Why? What's wrong with solidarity, mutual help, a save job, more rights for employers?

Ummmm, nothing, that wasn't the point at hand, can you read? I said, that the unions are for maintaining the status quo at any cost. They don't care about children as long as their members cannot be fired, held accountable, and cannot be punished--in other words, they are for the union, not the children.

Well, if you don't have to pay for school you can change whenever you think it's right. Just send your kid to another school. There's still the free choice.

Once again, your glaring errors demonstrate your complete lack of depth. That is not how the system works. You cannot "just send your kid to another school," because the gov't won't let you. You do not have that choice because the gov't took that away from you. If your local school sucks, yer kids still goes there, and you still get to pay for it, even if you don't have kids.

If you don't want to finance a corporation, don't buy it's products, or it's stock. Since you are free to do that, there is no need for any of the above. If you disagree with how it is run, don't deal with them. The only people who have any interest are the shareholders, if they're happy, nothing else matters.

That's the main failure in economics. Not the short-term raise of the shares matters but the middle- or long-term progress of the company. Too many companies have been closed down because of a momentary weakness of the shares though they had enough turn-over and/or enough export orders to get over it. In my opinion they should forbid this entire stock-exchange biz -- or treat it worse than gambling.

Wow. What the hell does this have to do with why there is a difference between a forced education system and your free choice to deal with a company or not? The point was that you can choose to deal with a company or not--the gov't took that choice away from you for education.

Economics hasn't "failed," it just is. It's isn't right or wrong, it's an accurate description of the world around us. What you feel about how privately owned companies that you do not run is of no concern. They aren't yours.

I mean, if Nike knows you won't buy their product, don't own their stock, don't work for the company, et cetera, why the hell would they even think to listen to you?

To get me as their customer? I learned that each non-customer is a potential customer. You only have to find a way to reach them.

Lovely. Not the point at all, but lovely.

With public education (the topic at hand), you are forced to pay for it, even if you don't have kids. You can't walk away. You can't refuse to pay.

That's what taxes are for: to pay for things everyone can have their use from. And education is a thing everyone can use. Be it "first education" (kindergarten, school, university) or "secondary education" (like evening classes for adults - the way I study at the moment). Education brings advantage to everyone. What use are secret services, wars, the SDI program for Mr. Average American Guy? They brought only evil according to what I learned.

For the 1000th time: You again have conveniently forgotten the second part: that the system that provides dollars for education and health care is the same system that provides dollars for secret services, war and SDI. That's the fatal flaw. You want to force me to pay for your silly education plan, others want to force me to pay for their silly wars. It's all just gov't force.

I'm beginning to think you are willfully blinding yourself to things that intrude on what you feel the world should be like.
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...
ID: 614613 · Report as offensive
MAC

Send message
Joined: 12 Feb 01
Posts: 203
Credit: 58,346
RAC: 0
Czech Republic
Message 614652 - Posted: 4 Aug 2007, 6:32:46 UTC - in response to Message 614342.  

When I see how people ignore the homeless, the poor, the weak and the needing - are these people just not strong enough to actually SEE poverty and need?


No, there are a lot of people investing their time and/or money to help. Especially in the US, for what I admire them. But the problem is the system we live in right now. We are all getting streamlined by TV and Media about what's cool and ideal. There is so much envy because everybody wants to have more then it's neighbour and so on. Even many rather rich people risk it all for a few bucks and you wonder why someone who makes millions a year would make insider deals for a few hundred thousand dollars, which can cost his freedom.
Everybody wants to be the richest, most powerful, best looking, whatever - and they all forget that the one real important thing in life is to be content. There can only be one and chances are minimal you will make it. If you are skilled, lucky enough and work hard maybe you will make it - but life is short and do you really want to waste your life being dissatisfied just because you did not make it yet?

And so many people simply either can't afford to care for others or don't want to because they participate in "the race" and don't want to share to reach their goal (which they prolly won't reach anyways). They have to show what they have, though to feel better (unless they meet someone who has more) - and that's why so many rich people who get into trouble find out that they have no real friends and their former friends find joy in their misfortune.

All in all this system sucks and almost everybody suffers - the poor AND the rich - just in different ways. To live the good life you don't need millions, but you need to break the vicious circle of envy and focus on simply making the best of your life and enjoying it, thinking and acting optimistic.

I have made a lot of mistakes in my life, but so many times those mistakes and misfortunes lead to something good in the end, important is just keeping your head up and keep trying.

So to come back to answering the qoute: the system keeps us pretty busy.
ID: 614652 · Report as offensive
MrGray
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 625366 - Posted: 24 Aug 2007, 8:13:30 UTC
Last modified: 24 Aug 2007, 8:15:57 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuKMtLOKG8k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFvz5mCH4TU
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
ID: 625366 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · Next

Message boards : Politics : America gets Quized


 
©2019 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.