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This thread is a continuation of Religious threads [9], [8], [7], [6], [5], [4], [3], [2], [1].

I thought you might want me to take this back.

I thought you might want me to take this back.

Thank you.

---

me@rescam.org

Faith Freedom International is a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. Its goals are to (a) unmask Islam and show that it is an imperialistic ideology akin to Nazism but disguised as religion and (b) to help Muslims leave it, end this culture of hate caused by their "us" vs. "them" ethos and embrace the human race in amity. We strive for the unity of Mankind through the elimination of Islam, the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can't be molded, but it can be smashed. It is rigid but brittle. That is why Muslims do not tolerate criticism of it. To eradicate Islam, all we have to do is tell the truth. It's that simple. The truth about Islam is out. It's all here in this site. Now it is up to you to spread it. With truth, the decent Muslims will leave Islam and with each Muslim that leaves, we gain a new soldier in our fight against terrorism. We are growing exponentially. The days of Islam are numbered and world peace is around the corner. Many of us will see that day. We might have to go through very tough times meanwhile. The storm is approaching.

Does anyone else see the irony?


Yes... The truth about Islam is out there... And it's free:
Here: The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Here: FreeKoran.com, And here: FreeQuran.org.

Say: "Oh people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a common word between us and you, that we worship none but Allah (God), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take one another as lords besides Allah (God)." Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims (those who have submitted to the will of Allah (God))." ~Qur'an 3:64

Say : "Oh you that reject Faith (The Disbelievers)! I worship not that which you worship, Nor will you worship that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping, Nor will you worship that which I worship. To you be your religion, and to me my religion." ~Qur'an 109:1-6

This war is about 'ethnic cleansing'... plain and simple...

Discuss? ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Faith Freedom International is a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. Its goals are to (a) unmask Islam and show that it is an imperialistic ideology akin to Nazism but disguised as religion and (b) to help Muslims leave it, end this culture of hate caused by their "us" vs. "them" ethos and embrace the human race in amity. We strive for the unity of Mankind through the elimination of Islam, the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can't be molded, but it can be smashed. It is rigid but brittle. That is why Muslims do not tolerate criticism of it. To eradicate Islam, all we have to do is tell the truth. It's that simple. The truth about Islam is out. It's all here in this site. Now it is up to you to spread it. With truth, the decent Muslims will leave Islam and with each Muslim that leaves, we gain a new soldier in our fight against terrorism. We are growing exponentially. The days of Islam are numbered and world peace is around the corner. Many of us will see that day. We might have to go through very tough times meanwhile. The storm is approaching.

Does anyone else see the irony?


Yes... The truth about Islam is out there... And it's free:
Here: The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Here: FreeKoran.com, And here: FreeQuran.org.

Say: "Oh people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a common word between us and you, that we worship none but Allah (God), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take one another as lords besides Allah (God)." Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims (those who have submitted to the will of Allah (God))." ~Qur'an 3:64

Say : "Oh you that reject Faith (The Disbelievers)! I worship not that which you worship, Nor will you worship that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping, Nor will you worship that which I worship. To you be your religion, and to me my religion." ~Qur'an 109:1-6

This war is about 'ethnic cleansing'... plain and simple...

Discuss? ;)

I know similar arguments from German boards... These ignorant people confuse normal Muslims with those zealots who are terrorizing others.
I read the Qur'an myself, and find it much less aggressive than some people want us to believe. They forget that Jihad means not only fight with weapons, but also the fight against one's own bad habits and each struggle to improve one's own life. According to all definitions I read it just means "Holy Struggle".
When I go to work and attend evening classes after that in my spare-time, it's a Jihad, because I have to fight my laziness and tiredness to get good notes. And it IS a fight. When you work all day and enjoy to sleep long at weekends it is a struggle to get up early to go to church each Sunday morning. When you wish to go to Church to learn from the preachings and to meet others who believe in the same like you, and you have to struggle, to fight with yourself to reach this, you're on a Jihad.
Alliterate people who learn to read and write are on a Jihad. People who use drugs and struggle to come over it are on a Jihad, according to the Qu'ran.
But these ignorant people read "Jihad = fight" and yell how evil the Qu'ran is, and that all Muslims shall become ex-Muslims asap.

Otherwise, they forget, that Allah is just the Arabic translation of "The One and Only God" and even the Christians and Jews in Arabic speaking countries call God Allah, and that Jesus ("Isa ben Maryam") is appreciated as a prophet in the Qu'ran.

---

Account frozen...

Faith Freedom International is a grassroots movement of ex-Muslims. Its goals are to (a) unmask Islam and show that it is an imperialistic ideology akin to Nazism but disguised as religion and (b) to help Muslims leave it, end this culture of hate caused by their "us" vs. "them" ethos and embrace the human race in amity. We strive for the unity of Mankind through the elimination of Islam, the most insidious doctrine of hate. Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated. It can't be molded, but it can be smashed. It is rigid but brittle. That is why Muslims do not tolerate criticism of it. To eradicate Islam, all we have to do is tell the truth. It's that simple. The truth about Islam is out. It's all here in this site. Now it is up to you to spread it. With truth, the decent Muslims will leave Islam and with each Muslim that leaves, we gain a new soldier in our fight against terrorism. We are growing exponentially. The days of Islam are numbered and world peace is around the corner. Many of us will see that day. We might have to go through very tough times meanwhile. The storm is approaching.

Does anyone else see the irony?


Yes... The truth about Islam is out there... And it's free:
Here: The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), Here: FreeKoran.com, And here: FreeQuran.org.

Say: "Oh people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a common word between us and you, that we worship none but Allah (God), and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take one another as lords besides Allah (God)." Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims (those who have submitted to the will of Allah (God))." ~Qur'an 3:64

Say : "Oh you that reject Faith (The Disbelievers)! I worship not that which you worship, Nor will you worship that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping, Nor will you worship that which I worship. To you be your religion, and to me my religion." ~Qur'an 109:1-6

This war is about 'ethnic cleansing'... plain and simple...

Discuss? ;)

I know similar arguments from German boards... These ignorant people confuse normal Muslims with those zealots who are terrorizing others.
I read the Qur'an myself, and find it much less aggressive than some people want us to believe. They forget that Jihad means not only fight with weapons, but also the fight against one's own bad habits and each struggle to improve one's own life. According to all definitions I read it just means "Holy Struggle".
When I go to work and attend evening classes after that in my spare-time, it's a Jihad, because I have to fight my laziness and tiredness to get good notes. And it IS a fight. When you work all day and enjoy to sleep long at weekends it is a struggle to get up early to go to church each Sunday morning. When you wish to go to Church to learn from the preachings and to meet others who believe in the same like you, and you have to struggle, to fight with yourself to reach this, you're on a Jihad.
Alliterate people who learn to read and write are on a Jihad. People who use drugs and struggle to come over it are on a Jihad, according to the Qu'ran.
But these ignorant people read "Jihad = fight" and yell how evil the Qu'ran is, and that all Muslims shall become ex-Muslims asap.

Otherwise, they forget, that Allah is just the Arabic translation of "The One and Only God" and even the Christians and Jews in Arabic speaking countries call God Allah, and that Jesus ("Isa ben Maryam") is appreciated as a prophet in the Qu'ran.

Actually, the problem is that most normal Muslims are not declaring against "those zealots who are terrorizing others" (I will just call them those murderers from now on), leading most of the rest of us non-Muslims to believe that thay agree with the those murderers. We feel certain that "normal Muslims" don't go out and murder women, children and men like those murderers. But when Al-Jazeera sings the praise of those murderers and shows those murderers cutting the head off someone who is helping rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure it's hard to remember who the "normal Muslims" are, because we never hear from them.

Actually, the problem is that most normal Muslims are not declaring against "those zealots who are terrorizing others" (I will just call them those murderers from now on), leading most of the rest of us non-Muslims to believe that thay agree with the those murderers. We feel certain that "normal Muslims" don't go out and murder women, children and men like those murderers. But when Al-Jazeera sings the praise of those murderers and shows those murderers cutting the head off someone who is helping rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure it's hard to remember who the "normal Muslims" are, because we never hear from them.

I 100% agree.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Actually, the problem is that most normal Muslims are not declaring against "those zealots who are terrorizing others" (I will just call them those murderers from now on), leading most of the rest of us non-Muslims to believe that thay agree with the those murderers. We feel certain that "normal Muslims" don't go out and murder women, children and men like those murderers. But when Al-Jazeera sings the praise of those murderers and shows those murderers cutting the head off someone who is helping rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure it's hard to remember who the "normal Muslims" are, because we never hear from them.

I see and talk to Muslims on a daily basis. So I know what they're saying and what they claim to agree with. I suppose you do not meet many Muslims in your area of the country.

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Actually, the problem is that most normal Muslims are not declaring against "those zealots who are terrorizing others" (I will just call them those murderers from now on), leading most of the rest of us non-Muslims to believe that thay agree with the those murderers. We feel certain that "normal Muslims" don't go out and murder women, children and men like those murderers. But when Al-Jazeera sings the praise of those murderers and shows those murderers cutting the head off someone who is helping rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure it's hard to remember who the "normal Muslims" are, because we never hear from them.

I see and talk to Muslims on a daily basis. So I know what they're saying and what they claim to agree with. I suppose you do not meet many Muslims in your area of the country.

What is your point and how does it relate to what I said? I also work and talk with Muslims every day. The statement is a non-sequitir.

Let me spell out what I am saying very clearly. When those murderers are murdering in the name of Islam and Allah, we do not hear the Imams anywhere refuting their words and repudiating their acts. This leads many to the assumption that the Imams agree and support those murderers.

Actually, the problem is that most normal Muslims are not declaring against "those zealots who are terrorizing others" (I will just call them those murderers from now on), leading most of the rest of us non-Muslims to believe that thay agree with the those murderers. We feel certain that "normal Muslims" don't go out and murder women, children and men like those murderers. But when Al-Jazeera sings the praise of those murderers and shows those murderers cutting the head off someone who is helping rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure it's hard to remember who the "normal Muslims" are, because we never hear from them.

I see and talk to Muslims on a daily basis. So I know what they're saying and what they claim to agree with. I suppose you do not meet many Muslims in your area of the country.

What is your point and how does it relate to what I said? I also work and talk with Muslims every day. The statement is a non-sequitir.

Let me spell out what I am saying very clearly. When those murderers are murdering in the name of Islam and Allah, we do not hear the Imams anywhere refuting their words and repudiating their acts. This leads many to the assumption that the Imams agree and support those murderers.

The Muslims I know DO speak out against the words and actions of extremists.
Thus, it is your conclusion that is a non-sequitUr.

---

Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Is the Christian right really to blame?

BY STAR PARKER
SCRIPPS HOWARD NEWS SERVICE

May 28, 2007

One thing we can generally predict about human behavior is that when people are unhappy, they go on the hunt for someone to blame.

Taking a lot of heat for today's discontents is the so-called religious right.

Just consider books, some hot sellers, of recent years: Jim Wallis' “God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It”; “How the Republicans Stole Religion: Why the Religious Right is Wrong About Faith & Politics and What We Can Do to Make It Right” by Bill Press; and, more recently, Victor Gold's “Invasion of the Party Snatchers: How the Holy-Rollers and the Neo-Cons Destroyed the GOP” and Christopher Hitchens' very subtle “god is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything.”

Take your pick. The religious right is either destroying the Republican party, the two-party system, the country or, according to Hitchens, by even having the temerity to suggest there is a Creator, and that life has rules, religious people are a danger to life itself.

Hitchens is the least of my concerns. There is no subtlety here that might seduce the uninformed. We just have the newest of a long historical procession of those who claim there is no truth (except, of course, that laid out in Hitchens' book) and that religion and morality and decency have nothing to do with each other.

Hitchens provides his own proof of the dubiousness of the latter claim with his tasteless and impolite screed about Jerry Falwell, published the instant the reverend breathed his last breath, noting that his death had “zero significance” and calling him a “credulous idiot.”

What I am concerned about, however, are the more subtle attacks on the religious right, coming from the Christian left, that can have, and may be having, appeal to those who simply don't appreciate the facts.

I am talking about a distorted portrayal of conservative Christians as a detached and fanatic lot, who care only about a couple free-floating issues, abortion and sexual behavior, and who could not care less about anything else going on in the country.

“Why this obsession with abortion and sexual behavior?” they ask. “How about poverty? How about the environment?”

Regarding poverty, the Rev. Wallis says, “This is the big issue of God's heart, if we take the Bible seriously.” Poverty, according to Wallis, is the “silent tsunami” and “nobody pays attention to it.”

Nobody pays attention to it?

Due respects to Wallis, but you just have to wonder where he has been for the last few decades.

In our own country, in the 1960s, President Lyndon Johnson declared a “war on poverty.” Since then, we have spent something on the order of $10 trillion under the premise that poverty is something that can be eliminated through government largesse.

Yet today, by our own standards of measuring poverty, the rate among blacks is twice the national average, and one in four blacks is poor.

How about overseas? About $3 trillion has been spent in developing countries, Africa, in particular, to fight poverty. Results? None. Virtually no impact.

One does not need to be of any particular ideology or religion to simply read and interpret facts. Rather, it can only be ideology that would cause someone to insist on a view that is inconsistent with the conclusions that facts bear out.

It is too bad that Johnson, in 1965, did not pay closer attention to what he himself understood. This is what he said then:

“The family is the cornerstone of our society. More than any other force, it shapes the attitude, the hopes, the ambitions and the values of the child. And when the family collapses, it is the children that are usually damaged. When it happens on a massive scale, the entire community itself is crippled.”

Today, single-parent black families and black out-of-wedlock births are triple what they were when Johnson made these remarks at Howard University. Most sadly, and ironically, this breakdown in black families is largely attributable to the very government programs that Johnson helped put in motion.

There is no correlation that fits closer to the incidence of poverty than family breakdown.

Yet, we hear about the intolerance and mean-spiritedness of the Christian right because of its unwillingness to embrace single parenthood as a norm or sexual lifestyles and family arrangements outside of what is traditional as a norm.

Christians like to stay home and care for their families. Politics is not a natural home for these folks. Conservative Christian activism has never been a move to take over the country.

The takeover of our country has already occurred from the left. Conservative Christians just want to defend the little turf left where truth can be preserved.

Parker, a nationally syndicated columnist, is president of CURE, Coalition on Urban Renewal and Education (www.urbancure.org) and author of “White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.”

---

me@rescam.org

Actually, the problem is that most normal Muslims are not declaring against "those zealots who are terrorizing others" (I will just call them those murderers from now on), leading most of the rest of us non-Muslims to believe that thay agree with the those murderers. We feel certain that "normal Muslims" don't go out and murder women, children and men like those murderers. But when Al-Jazeera sings the praise of those murderers and shows those murderers cutting the head off someone who is helping rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure it's hard to remember who the "normal Muslims" are, because we never hear from them.

I see and talk to Muslims on a daily basis. So I know what they're saying and what they claim to agree with. I suppose you do not meet many Muslims in your area of the country.

What is your point and how does it relate to what I said? I also work and talk with Muslims every day. The statement is a non-sequitir.

Let me spell out what I am saying very clearly. When those murderers are murdering in the name of Islam and Allah, we do not hear the Imams anywhere refuting their words and repudiating their acts. This leads many to the assumption that the Imams agree and support those murderers.

The Muslims I know DO speak out against the words and actions of extremists.
Thus, it is your conclusion that is a non-sequitUr.

Sarge. How many of the Imams have gone to the general public ( through the media for instance ) to say that what those others are doing is wrong??

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

we do not hear the Imams anywhere refuting their words and repudiating their acts.

And what exactly do you think their words could say or do to stop those NON Muslims?

...or is it that you are so spiritually empty that you simply need to hear the 'empty words'?


Odd that I posted a paragraph of hate filled propaganda calling for the destruction of Islam and Muslims, along with two Qur'anic verses clearly calling for peace between Muslims, Christians, Jews, and even Infidels... Yet you still choose to associate Islam with terrorism... The real terrorists are in your camp... WAKE UP! ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

[quote]we do not hear the Imams anywhere refuting their words and repudiating their acts.

And what exactly do you think their words could say or do to stop those NON Muslims?

...or is it that you are so spiritually empty that you simply need to hear the 'empty words'?

Hold on a sec Jeff. It seems to me that the " empty words " are the ones that aren't being spoken. Or are you telling us that Islam really DOES condone the violence and that if the Imams stepped forward and said that the radical's behavior was not acceptable, they would be lying just to pacify the people?

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

I read the Qur'an myself, and find it much less aggressive than some people want us to believe.

And those people would be the people who fall into this catagory:

I'd also like to point out the Irony that many people who hate Islam fall into. They hate and call for the destruction of what they view as a "religion of hate and destruction". Quite interesting.

I couldn't have said it better... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Hold on a sec Jeff.

You know what I meant... All the Imams could do is restate what has already been stated... Making them 'empty words'... Not empty in truth, but empty as in falling on deaf ears... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Hold on a sec Jeff.

You know what I meant... All the Imams could do is restate what has already been stated.

No I don't know what you mean. Which Imam condemned the actions and statements of murderers claiming to kill women, children and men in the name of Islam and Allah?

What has already been stated son? In condemnation of which murders?

Please, give me a name, a publication, a location, a website or any other means of finding the public record of when an Imam condemned the actions and statements of murderers claiming to kill women, children and men in the name of Islam.

Please, give me [SNIP]

Please tell me where our president has come out and said that he wasn't personally responsible for 911, or in the least, that he didn't sit back and let it happen... Please tell me where our president has come out and said that he doesn't approve of the bigoted hatred that is growing ramped in our country towards Muslims and Islam... Please tell me where our president has come out and said that he was wrong and that Iraq and Islam were attacked by our nation without any legitimate reason... All in the name of 'christianity'... I could go on, and on, and on...

We dismantled their government...
We demonized their religion...
We have killed their family members...
We destroyed their country...

In that order!

What makes you think that the Imams owe us ANYTHING??? ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

son

Please do not call me son...

You neither created me, nor did you father me...

I actually prefer 'moron' and 'idiot' over 'son' and 'sir'...

I am not 'needy' of hearing the 'empty words'... In my world, they are called LIES...

They do not bring me any comfort, they make my spine curl in disgust...

Thank you very much... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .