...
It runs without, it download work without it [App_info.xml], it upload work without it and it report work without it, it kind of just works. So please why does it even exist???

Carl

well, to generate 'ghost' results apparently .... just don't let your cache run dry...

---

"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.

More strangeness, now purely amusing.

Since I did all the switcheroos and didgeridoos and reinstallaroos my Boinc says that I am running the standard app... BUT, when the WUs report in they say that it is the Ben_Joe app that has crunched. And the time is about right for the Ben_Joe. Way to fast for the standard.

SETI@home Enhanced 5.15 is now the name for Ben_Joe on my puter and the Loony Whangy puter. And I have the Bogus named app_info file on my puter and Whangy has it deleted.
So... Could please someone tell me what the in the name of strange couchlike computers is the app_info really good for?

It runs without, it download work without it, it upload work without it and it report work without it, it kind of just works. So please why does it even exist???

Carl

Without the app info file there in the first place, Boinc would never look for the optimized app to start with, and would just use the stock app. Once Boinc is launched and it finds the app info file, it starts up the optimized app instead. Other users are reporting an entry in the client state file referring to the optimized app, and I am thinking it is that entry that is allowing the optimized app to continue to be used even after the app info file is inactivated. It seems to be the 'anonymous platform' thing that is throwing a wrench into comms with the server, although I don't think anybody quite knows why yet. Without the app info file present, Boinc doesn't start up using the 'anonymous platform'.

---

"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

It appears now that anyone that is using the app_info file with it's proper name is probably creating ghost work units. Those that have renamed the app_info file to something else and thus dissabling the "annonymous platform" are working normally and using the optimized app.

---

Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....

More strangeness, now purely amusing.

Since I did all the switcheroos and didgeridoos and reinstallaroos my Boinc says that I am running the standard app... BUT, when the WUs report in they say that it is the Ben_Joe app that has crunched. And the time is about right for the Ben_Joe. Way to fast for the standard.

SETI@home Enhanced 5.15 is now the name for Ben_Joe on my puter and the Loony Whangy puter. And I have the Bogus named app_info file on my puter and Whangy has it deleted.
So... Could please someone tell me what the in the name of strange couchlike computers is the app_info really good for?

It runs without, it download work without it, it upload work without it and it report work without it, it kind of just works. So please why does it even exist???

Carl

You can tell which one it's crunching on in the "Task Manager", in the "Processes" tab, if it running KWSN_2.2B_SSE3-C2_Ben-Joe.exe (or a close variation depending on your processor) your crunching on Chicken Soup.

---

More strangeness, now purely amusing.

Since I did all the switcheroos and didgeridoos and reinstallaroos my Boinc says that I am running the standard app... BUT, when the WUs report in they say that it is the Ben_Joe app that has crunched. And the time is about right for the Ben_Joe. Way to fast for the standard.

SETI@home Enhanced 5.15 is now the name for Ben_Joe on my puter and the Loony Whangy puter. And I have the Bogus named app_info file on my puter and Whangy has it deleted.
So... Could please someone tell me what the in the name of strange couchlike computers is the app_info really good for?

It runs without, it download work without it, it upload work without it and it report work without it, it kind of just works. So please why does it even exist???

Carl

Without the app info file there in the first place, Boinc would never look for the optimized app to start with, and would just use the stock app. Once Boinc is launched and it finds the app info file, it starts up the optimized app instead. Other users are reporting an entry in the client state file referring to the optimized app, and I am thinking it is that entry that is allowing the optimized app to continue to be used even after the app info file is inactivated. It seems to be the 'anonymous platform' thing that is throwing a wrench into comms with the server, although I don't think anybody quite knows why yet. Without the app info file present, Boinc doesn't start up using the 'anonymous platform'.

Mine do start the op app without the app_info. I am starting to think that there is some sort of conflict between the info_app and the client state file.

Only issue right now is that it is named ass the standard app in the Boinc window. But reports in as a Ben_Joe Crunched WU. Something I can live with. For me the only thing the app_info.xml does is change the name of the WUs crunch-app in the Boinc window.

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More strangeness, now purely amusing.

Since I did all the switcheroos and didgeridoos and reinstallaroos my Boinc says that I am running the standard app... BUT, when the WUs report in they say that it is the Ben_Joe app that has crunched. And the time is about right for the Ben_Joe. Way to fast for the standard.

SETI@home Enhanced 5.15 is now the name for Ben_Joe on my puter and the Loony Whangy puter. And I have the Bogus named app_info file on my puter and Whangy has it deleted.
So... Could please someone tell me what the in the name of strange couchlike computers is the app_info really good for?

It runs without, it download work without it, it upload work without it and it report work without it, it kind of just works. So please why does it even exist???

Carl

You can tell which one it's crunching on in the "Task Manager", in the "Processes" tab, if it running KWSN_2.2B_SSE3-C2_Ben-Joe.exe (or a close variation depending on your processor) your crunching on Chicken Soup.

It states that it is running the standard app in Task manager. It states the process that the Boing reports in to task manager. But... Here's the deal.
Here is the last reported and run file on the block... And this WU is run what everything says is standard app.

Ta-Daa!
<core_client_version>5.8.16</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<stderr_txt>
Optimized SETI@Home Enhanced application
Optimizers: Ben Herndon, Josef Segur, Alex Kan, Simon Zadra
Version: Windows SSE3-P4/PD 32-bit based on S@H V5.15 'Noo? No - Ni!'
Revision: 2.2B|xP+GFX|FFT:IPP_SSE3|Ben-Joe
CPUID: Intel Pentium D 'Smithfield'
CPUs: 2, cores: 4, threads: 1 cache: L1=16K, L2=1024K, L3=4096
Features: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
speed: 3200 MHz -- read MB/s: L1=9512, L2=7795, RAM=4475

Work Unit Info
True angle range: 0.592311

Spikes Pulses Triplets Gaussians Flops
0 0 1 0 12883192850300

---

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/Edit

Double-post

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I've stopped BOINC I've renamed app_info.xml and after starting, the BOINC downloaded the stock app and WUs.
I've stopped BOINC, I've renamed app_info.xml to original name and renamed files (maybe this isn't necessary) in slot to point to optimised app and I've restarted BOINC.
After starting BOINC the stock app was erased and the optimised app was starting crunch.
After few WUs were crunched i want to download more WUs.
I've stopped BOINC, I've renamed app_info.xml.
After starting BOINC more WUs were in my cache, but this time the stock app wasn't downloaded, only WUs.
I've left BOINC in this state and without app_info.xml it is capable of download more WUs and still crunching with optimised app.

May I suggest the following explanation...? (and my guess is: exactly the same happened to you, msattler :-) )

You have exactly done what I've described in my first posting - but in a slightly different way ... ;-)

After the first use of the renaming trick your Boinc client assigned the new work to version number 5.15 and started the download of the stock application. Your app_info.xml file also has a section pointing to version number 5.15. When you restored your app_info.xml your newly downloaded workunits were re-assigned to the optimized application, but this time with the proper version number 5.15.

Now you rename/remove the app_info.xml again. Once every old workunit, which had been assigned to 5.17, has been crunched and reported, the entries regarding verion 5.17 are not needed anymore and are deleted from the client_state.xml file. When you contact the scheduler for the next time the comparison described in my fist posting finds matching version numbers. Now your client does not need to download a new application and continues to use the optimized application.

To summarize: Everybody who has (successfully) done the rename trick at least once and restored the app_info.xml at least once afterwards should now be able to use the optimized apps without an app_info.xml.

Regards,
Carsten

More strangeness, now purely amusing.
[...]

Actually, that's very much less strange now, and more logical. The differences between how BOINC handles anonymous or non-standard platforms (app_info.xml or self-compiled 64-bit BOINC) mechanism vs. platforms it believes are stock (i.e. project-distributed) do make things clearer. Joe Segur posted about this in another thread either here or on the Beta forums.

Why even have app_info.xml? To (initially) tell BOINC about an app you'd like it to use instead of the stock one. Obviously, you could also edit client_state.xml yourself, though that's a bit iffy and not a recommended way.

1) you use app_info.xml. BOINC does not check with the scheduler which the current stock version is. It takes the highest available version from app_info.xml and reports this to the scheduler and shows it in BOINC. It also inserts this app version AND FILE NAME in client_state.xml, thereby preserving it across reboots, stops and starts, or whatnot.

2) you do not use app_info.xml. BOINC checks the app it's currently using to crunch in client_state.xml and its version. It then verifies with the scheduler that this version is indeed the current version, and if so (only numeric version match, not file name), it'll happily keep on using whatever app that may be.

It does cache what application version it downloaded a specific WU for, because there are other projects that require different apps for different WUs. So if it got a new app, but the WUs it had were for a previous one, it'll try to use that instead - they may be incompatible.

So it all does have reason and design, even if it's not immediately apparent because it's currently bothering us.

Regards,
Simon.

---

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Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

I've stopped BOINC I've renamed app_info.xml and after starting, the BOINC downloaded the stock app and WUs.
I've stopped BOINC, I've renamed app_info.xml to original name and renamed files (maybe this isn't necessary) in slot to point to optimised app and I've restarted BOINC.
After starting BOINC the stock app was erased and the optimised app was starting crunch.
After few WUs were crunched i want to download more WUs.
I've stopped BOINC, I've renamed app_info.xml.
After starting BOINC more WUs were in my cache, but this time the stock app wasn't downloaded, only WUs.
I've left BOINC in this state and without app_info.xml it is capable of download more WUs and still crunching with optimised app.

May I suggest the following explanation...? (and my guess is: exactly the same happened to you, msattler :-) )

You have exactly done what I've described in my first posting - but in a slightly different way ... ;-)

After the first use of the renaming trick your Boinc client assigned the new work to version number 5.15 and started the download of the stock application. Your app_info.xml file also has a section pointing to version number 5.15. When you restored your app_info.xml your newly downloaded workunits were re-assigned to the optimized application, but this time with the proper version number 5.15.

Now you rename/remove the app_info.xml again. Once every old workunit, which had been assigned to 5.17, has been crunched and reported, the entries regarding verion 5.17 are not needed anymore and are deleted from the client_state.xml file. When you contact the scheduler for the next time the comparison described in my fist posting finds matching version numbers. Now your client does not need to download a new application and continues to use the optimized application.

To summarize: Everybody who has (successfully) done the rename trick at least once and restored the app_info.xml at least once afterwards should now be able to use the optimized apps without an app_info.xml.

Regards,
Carsten

Listen carefully. If I start the app_info, both computers go Ka-BOOM. I have never started the app_info again since it DESTROYED my BOINCS and my WUS. I had to COMPLETELY DELETE and REINSTALL Boinc and ALL apps to get it running again. I DELETED the app_info before EVEN starting the Boinc after DELETION and REINSTALLATION. app_info is UNNECESSARY in all steps.

Clearer now?

Carl

---

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Skype = demiurg2

Carl,

while your personal experience may have been a bad one, that's simply not true unless you're willing to do manual editing of client_state.xml, which is pretty risky and, indeed, would do what you described, namely kill your BOINC installation if done improperly.

So please, accept that yes, it is a useful thing to have. Without it, you wouldn't be using apps of your own choice quite that easily.

C'mon, breathe now...
Simon.

---

Donate to SETI@Home via PayPal!

Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

Can one not do like this. Get Seti to download stock app, then renameing the optimized app to exactly the same name and overwritng the stock app. Will this not make the program think that I´m using stock but I´m using the optimized geting the speed from it. I want to keep crunching for Seti but not give up the extra speed now that I know it´s there.

I tried this and it appeared to work. That is, BOINC used the renamed app (Chicken app renamed as stock app) but my result got a validate error. This may just be a coincidence (since there seems to be a more general problem with validation errors). It might also be because this result was a hybrid (started with the real stock app and finished with the renamed app). I have another one "In Progess" that should finish in about an hour. It will have used the renamed optimized app for the whole way. Guess we can wait and see if it valdates.

---

More strangeness, now purely amusing.
[...]

Actually, that's very much less strange now, and more logical. The differences between how BOINC handles anonymous or non-standard platforms (app_info.xml or self-compiled 64-bit BOINC) mechanism vs. platforms it believes are stock (i.e. project-distributed) do make things clearer. Joe Segur posted about this in another thread either here or on the Beta forums.

Why even have app_info.xml? To (initially) tell BOINC about an app you'd like it to use instead of the stock one. Obviously, you could also edit client_state.xml yourself, though that's a bit iffy and not a recommended way.

1) you use app_info.xml. BOINC does not check with the scheduler which the current stock version is. It takes the highest available version from app_info.xml and reports this to the scheduler and shows it in BOINC. It also inserts this app version AND FILE NAME in client_state.xml, thereby preserving it across reboots, stops and starts, or whatnot.

2) you do not use app_info.xml. BOINC checks the app it's currently using to crunch in client_state.xml and its version. It then verifies with the scheduler that this version is indeed the current version, and if so (only numeric version match, not file name), it'll happily keep on using whatever app that may be.

It does cache what application version it downloaded a specific WU for, because there are other projects that require different apps for different WUs. So if it got a new app, but the WUs it had were for a previous one, it'll try to use that instead - they may be incompatible.

So it all does have reason and design, even if it's not immediately apparent because it's currently bothering us.

Regards,
Simon.

Simon.........I agree with your statement however......

Removing or renaming the app_info file should induce Boinc to NOT use the optimized app and to download and start the Seti app if running the Seti project. I believe that is written somewhere on the Boinc site under the "annonymous platform" instructions.

---

Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....

Listen carefully. [...]

Clearer now?

Carl, I didn't answer your postings. I did answer postings of other people.

Regards,
Carsten

Carl,

while your personal experience may have been a bad one, that's simply not true unless you're willing to do manual editing of client_state.xml, which is pretty risky and, indeed, would do what you described, namely kill your BOINC installation if done improperly.

So please, accept that yes, it is a useful thing to have. Without it, you wouldn't be using apps of your own choice quite that easily.

C'mon, breathe now...
Simon.

Sorry for getting a bit irate. But still it works fine without. Onto my third puter running without now. And that one has never ran Boing before;-)

---

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Skype = demiurg2

Listen carefully. [...]

Clearer now?

Carl, I didn't answer your postings. I did answer postings of other people.

Regards,
Carsten

Sorry, for blowing off steem. I misunderstood you.

Sincerely;
Carl

---

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Skype = demiurg2

Sorry for reposting this. I just love this WU for some reason. It must be the most impossible WU of all time. Just look at it:-)

Sorry guys for getting irritated.
Carl

<core_client_version>5.8.16</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<stderr_txt>
Optimized SETI@Home Enhanced application
Optimizers: Ben Herndon, Josef Segur, Alex Kan, Simon Zadra
Version: Windows SSE3-P4/PD 32-bit based on S@H V5.15 'Noo? No - Ni!'
Revision: 2.2B|xP+GFX|FFT:IPP_SSE3|Ben-Joe
CPUID: Intel Pentium D 'Smithfield'
CPUs: 2, cores: 4, threads: 1 cache: L1=16K, L2=1024K, L3=4096
Features: MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3
speed: 3200 MHz -- read MB/s: L1=9512, L2=7795, RAM=4475

Work Unit Info
True angle range: 0.592311

Spikes Pulses Triplets Gaussians Flops
0 0 1 0 12883192850300

---

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Skype = demiurg2

My experiences because of the current problems:

Take Richards 'trick':
-----------------------------------------
Rename app_info.xml so it won't be recognised
Restart BOINC (service)
Update SETI - may not get through first time, but keep trying

My experiences´re now, if you don't run out of work you don't need the app_info.xml and the following steps.

Restore app_info.xml to original name
Wait until all transfers have finished
Restart BOINC (service)
-----------------------------------------

I use BOINC V5.2.13 with V5.3.12.tx36
In my app_info.xml was only '5.15' because I changed it manually ! :-)
My PCs running well with the optimized apps with only the points 1 to 3 !

---

Thanks, Carsten!

That seems a bit more logical now - I also wanted to investigate after seeing it only matches version numbers, not the app itself.

I'll try this out later today on a few hosts. Seems like a good workaround that does not need manual intervention after installation.

It stands to reason that this will not work for hosts attached to both SETI Main and Beta at the same time, because those still need an app_info.xml workaround (with the "spoofed" 5.17 entry). I'll try and verify this later on, for now it's a gloriously sunny and warm Sunday and I'm going to enjoy it while I can.

Regards,
Simon.

I have 5.15, 5.17 and 5.18 in mine. No problems here.

---

me@rescam.org

I have the app_info renamed and I'm still crunching with Chicken (Task Manager is reporting KWSN_2.2B_SSE_Ben-Joe is running). So I'm gonna leave this one alone for the time being, and I'm gonna check and see if I can get this same thing to work on a Linux box.

---

Hi floor! Make me a sammich!