Hello everybody,

sorry for opening just another thread about this topic. But there are quite a lot threads dealing with the problem, so I think it's better to do a "clean re-start".

Many people have tried the "rename app_info.xml to get new work and not to create new ghosts" trick. Now we get two different reports: Some users are downloading the stock application, some users are still using the optimized application.

My own observation is the following: Those users who are using an app_info.xml with a version number different than the version number of the stock application are downloading the stock application. Those users who are using an app_info.xml with a version number that matches the version number of the stock application keep on using the optimized application.

Why? The following is my try of an answer, inspired by some other messages. I don't know if it is exactly correct, but it sounds reasonable ...

If you are removing your app_info.xml the Boinc server starts sending a little message in each scheduler reply. This message tells your client which is the current stock application:

<app_version>
    <app_name>setiathome_enhanced</app_name>
    <version_num>515</version_num>
    <file_ref>
       <file_name>setiathome_5.15_windows_intelx86.exe</file_name>
       <main_program/>
    </file_ref>
    [some other files]
    <platform>windows_intelx86</platform>
</app_version>

Now, your Boinc client compares these lines with the corresponding lines in your client_state.xml. And as far as I can tell from the observed behaviour it only compares the version numbers. (see this posting of "Juha" for my inspiration: http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=39531&nowrap=true#571854)

If the version numbers are the same, your Boinc client says "Ok, I have already a matching application, I don't need to download a new one". These users keep on using the optimized application. If the version numbers are not the same, your Boinc client says "I don't have a matching application, I have to download the application."

The first can be happy. They can keep on crunching with the optimized application and without an app_info.xml. The latter have to rename their app_info.xml again to keep on crunching with the optimized application. And they have to do the whole trick again if they want new work.

But there is a solution:

1. First of all crunch down every workunit with a version number different than the stock version.

2. Close your Boinc client completely

3. Edit your app_info.xml: Remove all sections that point to a version number different than the stock version. If you don't have a section that points to the corect version number, add this section.

4. Restart your Boinc client to apply the changes

5. Close your Boinc client completely again

6. Rename/remove your app_info.xml

7. Restart your Boinc client

From now on you can request new work and you can use your optimized application without an app_info.xml.

Please note: As far as I know the version number of the stock application depends on your platform (e. g. 5.15 for Windows, 5.13 for Mac). So, make sure you are using the correct version numbers if you try my suggestions).

Regards,
Carsten

Edit: some BBCode mistakes corrected

Thanks, Carsten!

That seems a bit more logical now - I also wanted to investigate after seeing it only matches version numbers, not the app itself.

I'll try this out later today on a few hosts. Seems like a good workaround that does not need manual intervention after installation.

It stands to reason that this will not work for hosts attached to both SETI Main and Beta at the same time, because those still need an app_info.xml workaround (with the "spoofed" 5.17 entry). I'll try and verify this later on, for now it's a gloriously sunny and warm Sunday and I'm going to enjoy it while I can.

Regards,
Simon.

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Optimized SETI@Home apps + Information

Carsten.........
I have been wondering about the reported problems with app_info also. Your logic makes perfect sense.

My app_info file contains only one section refering to version 515 which is the version that Seti is expecting currently. I never could understand the logic in using any other version numbers in the app_info file. Turns out under the current problems at the Berkeley servers my choice of referencing version 515 was probably the best choice. I am now running with the app_info file renamed to something else and still using the optimized apps by KWSN a full cache of work and maintaining the cache.

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Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....

Thanks Simon and Geek@Play for confirming my oberservations.

I never could understand the logic in using any other version numbers in the app_info file.

There was a bug in older Boinc clients. If you are using an app_info.xml at SETI main and you are running both SETI main and SETI beta these clients get confused because of the same application name (setiathome_enhanced) but different version numbers (5.15 and 5.17). That's the reason why you need a reference to 5.17 in your app_info.xml for SETI main if you are using these old clients.

Regards,
Carsten

My computers, all using optimized apps seem to now be able to ask for (and in one case receive) work again, without changing anything in the app_info..

Maybe they fixed it on SETI's end? I'm getting no more HTTP connection errors, or ghosts either for that matter..

Mostly getting 'out of work' msgs, but my laptop has picked up one WU!


edit.. grrr getting HTTP errors again, but definitely had 'Scheduler RPC succeeded' msg before...

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The app info files I have been using reference 512, 513, 514, 515, and 517. And all of my rigs have been continuing to use the optimized app without any further changes after simply renaming the app info file and restarting Boinc.
Maybe I'm just getting lucky here.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

My computers, all using optimized apps seem to now be able to ask for (and in one case receive) work again, without changing anything in the app_info..

Maybe they fixed it on SETI's end? I'm getting no more HTTP connection errors, or ghosts either for that matter..

Mostly getting 'out of work' msgs, but my laptop has picked up one WU!

edit.. grrr getting HTTP errors again, but definitely had 'Scheduler RPC succeeded' msg before...

Sorry, not working for me:

20/05/2007 15:36:31|SETI@home|Requesting 201688 seconds of new work
20/05/2007 15:36:36|SETI@home|Scheduler request failed: HTTP internal server error

and I've got the ghost WU to match.

I think it's linked to the 'no work from project' thing. If the server doesn't try to send you any work - either because you didn't ask, or because it hasn't got any - then everything's OK (congestion allowing). It's only when it tries to allocate work that it falls over.

Edit - but I immediately got plenty of work using the usual trick.

The app info files I have been using reference 512, 513, 514, 515, and 517. And all of my rigs have been continuing to use the optimized app without any further changes after simply renaming the app info file and restarting Boinc.
Maybe I'm just getting lucky here.

I think you are lucky, mine uses this and I get http errors, so is it worth carrying on with optimised version until this is fixed. I get http errors everytime is asks for work and reporting result.

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I have stopped BOINC, renamed the app_info, and restarted BOINC (even upgraded to the 5.9.11 beta), and they all continue to crunch with the optimized application. It downloaded the regular application, but still uses the optimized one, without issue.

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The app info files I have been using reference 512, 513, 514, 515, and 517. And all of my rigs have been continuing to use the optimized app without any further changes after simply renaming the app info file and restarting Boinc.
Maybe I'm just getting lucky here.

Interesting. When you installed the Chicken apps, did you use the automatic installer or just install into the SETI directory "by hand"?

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Thanks, Carsten!

That seems a bit more logical now - I also wanted to investigate after seeing it only matches version numbers, not the app itself.

I'll try this out later today on a few hosts. Seems like a good workaround that does not need manual intervention after installation.

It stands to reason that this will not work for hosts attached to both SETI Main and Beta at the same time, because those still need an app_info.xml workaround (with the "spoofed" 5.17 entry). I'll try and verify this later on, for now it's a gloriously sunny and warm Sunday and I'm going to enjoy it while I can.

Regards,
Simon.

I'm using Crunch3r's 5.9.0.32 Boinc files and this renaming doesn't work totally right, Sure Boinc will download WUs, But at the same time Boinc will try and fail to download 2.2B(and fail) and if this file isn't aborted, No more downloads can happen, If aborted two more times all available WUs become Computation errors and are reported as such. So I have to reset Seti twice in order to get any real downloads done with the stock app and the amount of WUs downloaded varies by PC, Then I can recopy 2.2B to My 5 PCs.

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I am begining to believe that there are multiple problems here. All concerning how Boinc handles the app_info file.

In the first place if the app_info file is NOT in place Boinc is supposed to download the Seti stock app and use it. This has not happened on any of my machines.

Different people are reporting different failure modes and they seem to be related to the context used in the app_info file used before the massive server failure on May 1. How or what context I cannot say. There seems to be as many flavors of app_info as there are users here.

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Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....Boinc....

For whatever it's worth, when I did the rename app file fix, the program downloaded WU's and began crunching on the stock application. I just happened to decide to reboot my computer to clear up 'puter memory/cashe and when I got back up and started boinc, low and behold it began crunching on chicken soup.

I did that with my other computer and the same thing happened. I don't know if that will help your situation or not.

I haven't had a single problem since, and, by the way, my app file in the seti projects directory is still named with the bogus name, I haven't renamed it back.

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It stands to reason that this will not work for hosts attached to both SETI Main and Beta at the same time, because those still need an app_info.xml workaround (with the "spoofed" 5.17 entry).

Sorry, I missed this passage when I read your posting for the first time. I've already tested it. The confusion of the old clients regarding SETI main and SETI beta exists only if an app_info.xml is present during the request of new work. No app_info.xml, no problem.

The app info files I have been using reference 512, 513, 514, 515, and 517. And all of my rigs have been continuing to use the optimized app without any further changes after simply renaming the app info file and restarting Boinc.
Maybe I'm just getting lucky here.

msattler, did you rename your app_info.xml back to the original name after you got new work or are you now crunching without an app_info.xml?

Regards,
Carsten

I've stopped BOINC I've renamed app_info.xml and after starting, the BOINC downloaded the stock app and WUs.
I've stopped BOINC, I've renamed app_info.xml to original name and renamed files (maybe this isn't necessary) in slot to point to optimised app and I've restarted BOINC.
After starting BOINC the stock app was erased and the optimised app was starting crunch.
After few WUs were crunched i want to download more WUs.
I've stopped BOINC, I've renamed app_info.xml.
After starting BOINC more WUs were in my cache, but this time the stock app wasn't downloaded, only WUs.
I've left BOINC in this state and without app_info.xml it is capable of download more WUs and still crunching with optimised app.

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Can one not do like this. Get Seti to download stock app, then renameing the optimized app to exactly the same name and overwritng the stock app. Will this not make the program think that I´m using stock but I´m using the optimized geting the speed from it. I want to keep crunching for Seti but not give up the extra speed now that I know it´s there.

Musings on strange computers and odd app_info errors!

A must read for people who loves strange things!

The app_info file change did as some of you know ruin my entire Boinc setup and kill 63 WUs in such a way that I had to delete and reinstall everything including the Ben_joe app. I tried everything.

After that I saw someone saying that you should keap the bogus name afterwards so I tried that. Lo and behold everything works. There seems to be something conflicting between the app_file and boinc-server management system in some truly strange way.

Well, after getting my system working I started thinking. Since I am the only one except the secretary running a fairly standard windows version of Boinc I decided to test if it was my system that was whonky by testing the only other computer running Boinc with Seti and Ben Joe app.

And that "puter" is a goofer.
It runs the ReactOS "ahem" alpha-windows clone from a live CD on a motherboard with dual Pentium D processors on it, with a Solaris/UnicOS BIOS. All of this adds up to a really fast but unstable, incompatible and cranky machine. Actualy the only program we can get running on it is Boinc 5.8.16 and then only with the Ben_joe SSE3 app.
Okay, the puter was of course not working out of the regular reasons. So I did a complete app_info switch. It bombed out spectacularly. All the WUs died after a minut or two and the puter froze. All WUs showed computation error.
Reinstalled everything, and did the partial info_app. It worked.

*Scratching my head*
Carl

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When I switched from optimized back to stock, I moved app_info.xml and the optimized application out of the SETI project folder. I noticed that this caused BOINC to attempt to download the optimized application. I then edited client_state.xml to remove the reference to the optimized application and then BOINC was able to download and use the standard application.

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The app info files I have been using reference 512, 513, 514, 515, and 517. And all of my rigs have been continuing to use the optimized app without any further changes after simply renaming the app info file and restarting Boinc.
Maybe I'm just getting lucky here.

Interesting. When you installed the Chicken apps, did you use the automatic installer or just install into the SETI directory "by hand"?

I have always downloaded the files into a temp file and then copied the app info and the exe into the boinc folder manually.

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"Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once."

More strangeness, now purely amusing.

Since I did all the switcheroos and didgeridoos and reinstallaroos my Boinc says that I am running the standard app... BUT, when the WUs report in they say that it is the Ben_Joe app that has crunched. And the time is about right for the Ben_Joe. Way to fast for the standard.

SETI@home Enhanced 5.15 is now the name for Ben_Joe on my puter and the Loony Whangy puter. And I have the Bogus named app_info file on my puter and Whangy has it deleted.
So... Could please someone tell me what the in the name of strange couchlike computers is the app_info really good for?

It runs without, it download work without it, it upload work without it and it report work without it, it kind of just works. So please why does it even exist???

Carl

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