Timing is Everything (May 09 2007)

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Profile Fuzzy Hollynoodles
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Message 564588 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 15:05:24 UTC - in response to Message 564233.  

I got a couple hectic gigs this weekend (one Friday night in Oakland, the other Saturday night in LA)


Gigs?

I haven't heard that word since, well, the 60's.

Eric, are you as old/older than me or doing the retro :)

Had doobies back then too and they weren't the Doobie Brothers either :)


It's not Eric, it's Matt who's a musician also.



"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

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Message 564593 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 15:21:28 UTC - in response to Message 564260.  
Last modified: 10 May 2007, 15:28:52 UTC

Simply though, it goes back to the "hey man (replace "mon" too), I got a gig going on at the happening place". (add the appropriate accent (reggae) Bob Marley and the Wailers)

goes back to Marley's dad's dad's generation. robert johnson, muddy waters, howlin wolf, and so forth.
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Message 564600 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 15:59:50 UTC - in response to Message 564353.  

Why not FIX the dialup interface portion of the boinc manager while you have all this time ?? It hasn't worked properly since the last updated version was released.

Because BOINC and SETI are different projects, and SETI is down, not BOINC.
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Message 564602 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 16:02:56 UTC - in response to Message 564017.  

I don't know man... my computer's going into some kinda withdrawl symptoms now... I swear I caught it running a minesweeper script just this morning so it had something to do!

Maybe I'll give it CDRW disk to just burn 1's to and then erase the disk, write 1's to and then erase the disk, write 1's to and then erase the disk, write 1's to and then erase the disk......

(Hey, I didn't name my computer "Tommy Chong" for nothing!)
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Message 564604 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 16:14:57 UTC - in response to Message 564569.  

Reverend,

With all due respect.

The server shipped from Louisville, TN. They aren't distributed from California.

But, more important, the project has always promised that there will be outages, and that there will be times with no data.

In fact, this is one of the cornerstones behind BOINC: a framework that can support multiple projects. There are elaborate mechanisms in BOINC that allow one project to be down, and "get back" the time later, when they're back.

But it isn't the technical aspect that bothers me about your message, it is the "you are all idiots who can't do your job" when you, Rev. Olivera, are demanding much more than SETI has ever promised.

If you truly demand 100% availability, then you need to be ready to step up and raise the funds for redundant spares, redundant connectivity and the like.

... or you need to take a deep breath, and review the commitments that the project has made to us, the volunteers behind the biggest volunteer computing effort out there.

They've promised to do the best they can with the extremely tight budget they have available.

As an aside, I don't know how many times I've ordered from a vendor and they've said "Monday" -- I thought "arrive Monday" and they meant "ships Monday."

To answer your specific question: they don't have a backup master science database server because they cost $49,000.

"In case you don't know the replacement server will arrive on Friday."
You have been saying that for over a week now, With Sun just down the road from you, you could have walked down there picked it up and walked back by now!! I have shut down my systems because of your "it's going to be another day" bull! If it's so important that your asking the public to help you with this program, then why in the hell did you not have a backup system incase this very thing happened?? This is not the first time you lost a server and the folks doing this work have had to set on there ass while you ran around looking for a system to take up the slack!! And the fact that any computer could run your data base and server XX amount of time files to the public means you could have had a cheap home system as a backup to server a time file so folks doing the work would not be waiting for over a week on YOU! all it really needs to do is run the data base that folks log into and get XX amount of work, heck a Max or and old Pentium 200MHz Pro could do that!! It does not have to be a $20,000 SUN system... D'oh O'pps Yup some of us are computer literate and some of us even design and build them for a living! D'oh... Your notebook could do the job, so get a computer on line and get the damn job running..

Yeah I said that.


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Message 564609 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 16:27:25 UTC - in response to Message 564572.  

Why not FIX the dialup interface portion of the boinc manager while you have all this time ?? It hasn't worked properly since the last updated version was released.


I agree that this needs fixing, but I don't think it is directly part of Matt's job.

The BOINC Manager and Core Client are dealt with by the BOINC development team http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/SoftwareDevelopment.

I recently lost about 8 hours work because BOINC was waiting for me to take action, and was causing regular "No heartbeat from core client for 31 sec - exiting" messages. I alway try to remember to "Suspend Network" when a connection is not available, but somtimes forget.



Well somebody should fix it. It worked untill the last update. I'm trying to setup
seti at a remote location that only has phone service. Manual intervention is out
as I only get there at most once a week ... sometimes once a month.
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Message 564612 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 16:29:09 UTC - in response to Message 564604.  

Reverend,

With all due respect.

The server shipped from Louisville, TN. They aren't distributed from California.

But, more important, the project has always promised that there will be outages, and that there will be times with no data.

In fact, this is one of the cornerstones behind BOINC: a framework that can support multiple projects. There are elaborate mechanisms in BOINC that allow one project to be down, and "get back" the time later, when they're back.

But it isn't the technical aspect that bothers me about your message, it is the "you are all idiots who can't do your job" when you, Rev. Olivera, are demanding much more than SETI has ever promised.

If you truly demand 100% availability, then you need to be ready to step up and raise the funds for redundant spares, redundant connectivity and the like.

... or you need to take a deep breath, and review the commitments that the project has made to us, the volunteers behind the biggest volunteer computing effort out there.

They've promised to do the best they can with the extremely tight budget they have available.

As an aside, I don't know how many times I've ordered from a vendor and they've said "Monday" -- I thought "arrive Monday" and they meant "ships Monday."

To answer your specific question: they don't have a backup master science database server because they cost $49,000.

"In case you don't know the replacement server will arrive on Friday."
You have been saying that for over a week now, With Sun just down the road from you, you could have walked down there picked it up and walked back by now!! I have shut down my systems because of your "it's going to be another day" bull! If it's so important that your asking the public to help you with this program, then why in the hell did you not have a backup system incase this very thing happened?? This is not the first time you lost a server and the folks doing this work have had to set on there ass while you ran around looking for a system to take up the slack!! And the fact that any computer could run your data base and server XX amount of time files to the public means you could have had a cheap home system as a backup to server a time file so folks doing the work would not be waiting for over a week on YOU! all it really needs to do is run the data base that folks log into and get XX amount of work, heck a Max or and old Pentium 200MHz Pro could do that!! It does not have to be a $20,000 SUN system... D'oh O'pps Yup some of us are computer literate and some of us even design and build them for a living! D'oh... Your notebook could do the job, so get a computer on line and get the damn job running..

Yeah I said that.


Very Well Said!
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Message 564614 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 16:32:33 UTC - in response to Message 564609.  

Why not FIX the dialup interface portion of the boinc manager while you have all this time ?? It hasn't worked properly since the last updated version was released.


I agree that this needs fixing, but I don't think it is directly part of Matt's job.

The BOINC Manager and Core Client are dealt with by the BOINC development team http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/SoftwareDevelopment.

I recently lost about 8 hours work because BOINC was waiting for me to take action, and was causing regular "No heartbeat from core client for 31 sec - exiting" messages. I alway try to remember to "Suspend Network" when a connection is not available, but somtimes forget.



Well somebody should fix it. It worked untill the last update. I'm trying to setup
seti at a remote location that only has phone service. Manual intervention is out
as I only get there at most once a week ... sometimes once a month.

Somebody should, but that somebody does not work for SETI.

Have you considered an ethernet modem? Those are available now.
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Message 564616 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 16:34:13 UTC - in response to Message 564612.  

Reverend,

With all due respect.

The server shipped from Louisville, TN. They aren't distributed from California.

But, more important, the project has always promised that there will be outages, and that there will be times with no data.

In fact, this is one of the cornerstones behind BOINC: a framework that can support multiple projects. There are elaborate mechanisms in BOINC that allow one project to be down, and "get back" the time later, when they're back.

But it isn't the technical aspect that bothers me about your message, it is the "you are all idiots who can't do your job" when you, Rev. Olivera, are demanding much more than SETI has ever promised.

If you truly demand 100% availability, then you need to be ready to step up and raise the funds for redundant spares, redundant connectivity and the like.

... or you need to take a deep breath, and review the commitments that the project has made to us, the volunteers behind the biggest volunteer computing effort out there.

They've promised to do the best they can with the extremely tight budget they have available.

As an aside, I don't know how many times I've ordered from a vendor and they've said "Monday" -- I thought "arrive Monday" and they meant "ships Monday."

To answer your specific question: they don't have a backup master science database server because they cost $49,000.

"In case you don't know the replacement server will arrive on Friday."
You have been saying that for over a week now, With Sun just down the road from you, you could have walked down there picked it up and walked back by now!! I have shut down my systems because of your "it's going to be another day" bull! If it's so important that your asking the public to help you with this program, then why in the hell did you not have a backup system incase this very thing happened?? This is not the first time you lost a server and the folks doing this work have had to set on there ass while you ran around looking for a system to take up the slack!! And the fact that any computer could run your data base and server XX amount of time files to the public means you could have had a cheap home system as a backup to server a time file so folks doing the work would not be waiting for over a week on YOU! all it really needs to do is run the data base that folks log into and get XX amount of work, heck a Max or and old Pentium 200MHz Pro could do that!! It does not have to be a $20,000 SUN system... D'oh O'pps Yup some of us are computer literate and some of us even design and build them for a living! D'oh... Your notebook could do the job, so get a computer on line and get the damn job running..

Yeah I said that.


Very Well Said!

Actually, I left out the "I've never seen a laptop with 24tb of storage" bit....
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Message 564622 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 16:46:32 UTC - in response to Message 564569.  
Last modified: 10 May 2007, 16:51:39 UTC

"In case you don't know the replacement server will arrive on Friday."
You have been saying that for over a week now, With Sun just down the road from you, you could have walked down there picked it up and walked back by now!! I have shut down my systems because of your "it's going to be another day" bull! If it's so important that your asking the public to help you with this program, then why in the hell did you not have a backup system incase this very thing happened?? This is not the first time you lost a server and the folks doing this work have had to set on there ass while you ran around looking for a system to take up the slack!! And the fact that any computer could run your data base and server XX amount of time files to the public means you could have had a cheap home system as a backup to server a time file so folks doing the work would not be waiting for over a week on YOU! all it really needs to do is run the data base that folks log into and get XX amount of work, heck a Max or and old Pentium 200MHz Pro could do that!! It does not have to be a $20,000 SUN system... D'oh O'pps Yup some of us are computer literate and some of us even design and build them for a living! D'oh... Your notebook could do the job, so get a computer on line and get the damn job running..

Yeah I said that.


Pretty harsh. I guess you didn't get the "Reverend" title/handle due to patience, forgiveness and understanding.

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Message 564639 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:21:01 UTC - in response to Message 564571.  
Last modified: 10 May 2007, 17:22:16 UTC

"In case you don't know the replacement server will arrive on Friday."
You have been saying that for over a week now, With Sun just down the road from you, you could have walked down there picked it up and walked back by now!! I have shut down my systems because of your "it's going to be another day" bull! If it's so important that your asking the public to help you with this program, then why in the hell did you not have a backup system in case this very thing happened?? This is not the first time you lost a server and the folks doing this work have had to set on there ass while you ran around looking for a system to take up the slack!! And the fact that any computer could run your data base and server XX amount of time files to the public means you could have had a cheap home system as a backup to server a time file so folks doing the work would not be waiting for over a week on YOU! all it really needs to do is run the data base that folks log into and get XX amount of work, heck a Max or and old Pentium 200MHz Pro could do that!! It does not have to be a $20,000 SUN system... D'oh O'pps Yup some of us are computer literate and some of us even design and build them for a living! D'oh... Your notebook could do the job, so get a computer on line and get the damn job running..

Yeah I said that.




Umm... yes, Sun Microsystems HQ is down in Silicon Valley... but (as I understand it...) the System is being shipped from the factory, which is in Tennessee! (probably by truck...)

As for backup system(s) read the relevant threads... lack of $$ is the primary reason there...

No - ordinary consumer-grade computers would freak out at the loads that SETIs servers routinely handle. (Home computer builder...)

And knowing FedEx or at least their local drivers, I have to keep an eye on shipments coming here by FedEx as they have gotten lost in the past as there are two parts to the street where I live, One is empty of any buildings and the Other part is where I live that has mobile homes scattered up and down It. Both sections of the road I live on are Bisected by a Freeway, Of course It wasn't like that before the Freeway was built, The Empty section of road should be renamed of course, Maybe then the confusion would end.
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
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Message 564644 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:27:33 UTC - in response to Message 564622.  

"In case you don't know the replacement server will arrive on Friday."
You have been saying that for over a week now, With Sun just down the road from you, you could have walked down there picked it up and walked back by now!! I have shut down my systems because of your "it's going to be another day" bull! If it's so important that your asking the public to help you with this program, then why in the hell did you not have a backup system incase this very thing happened?? This is not the first time you lost a server and the folks doing this work have had to set on there ass while you ran around looking for a system to take up the slack!! And the fact that any computer could run your data base and server XX amount of time files to the public means you could have had a cheap home system as a backup to server a time file so folks doing the work would not be waiting for over a week on YOU! all it really needs to do is run the data base that folks log into and get XX amount of work, heck a Max or and old Pentium 200MHz Pro could do that!! It does not have to be a $20,000 SUN system... D'oh O'pps Yup some of us are computer literate and some of us even design and build them for a living! D'oh... Your notebook could do the job, so get a computer on line and get the damn job running..

Yeah I said that.


Pretty harsh. I guess you didn't get the "Reverend" title/handle due to patience, forgiveness and understanding.


Reverend Trask evidently slept through his "The Fundamental Difference Between a Server and a PC" class.
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Message 564648 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:31:11 UTC
Last modified: 10 May 2007, 17:32:32 UTC

Most strange thing happened few hours ago, my BOINC cliet downloaded seti@home work unit, my timezone is GMT+2(DST)

10/05/2007 18:43:33|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Started download of file 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149
10/05/2007 18:43:38|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Finished download of file 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149
10/05/2007 18:43:38|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Throughput 98172 bytes/sec

10/05/2007 18:53:15|SETI@home|Starting 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149_4
10/05/2007 18:53:15|SETI@home|Starting task 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149_4 using setiathome_enhanced version 515

Any idea where this came from???

Br Marko B
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Message 564651 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:35:51 UTC - in response to Message 564648.  

Any idea where this came from???

Br Marko B

Results expire, error out, etc. so a new one is created and sent out. This does not need the master database because the main unit was already created. People will get random work here and there.


My movie https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/502242
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Message 564654 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:45:29 UTC - in response to Message 564622.  
Last modified: 10 May 2007, 17:47:12 UTC

Pretty harsh. I guess you didn't get the "Reverend" title/handle due to patience, forgiveness and understanding.


I'm guessing that the Reverend title is self-appointed. After looking at his profile, there doesn't seem to be anything that makes me believe he might be a real one.

I'm also guessing that he said that to be troll-ish just to get a bunch of responses.
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Message 564655 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:45:56 UTC - in response to Message 564569.  

"In case you don't know the replacement server will arrive on Friday."
You have been saying that for over a week now, With Sun just down the road from you, you could have walked down there picked it up and walked back by now!! I have shut down my systems because of your "it's going to be another day" bull! If it's so important that your asking the public to help you with this program, then why in the hell did you not have a backup system incase this very thing happened?? This is not the first time you lost a server and the folks doing this work have had to set on there ass while you ran around looking for a system to take up the slack!! And the fact that any computer could run your data base and server XX amount of time files to the public means you could have had a cheap home system as a backup to server a time file so folks doing the work would not be waiting for over a week on YOU! all it really needs to do is run the data base that folks log into and get XX amount of work, heck a Max or and old Pentium 200MHz Pro could do that!! It does not have to be a $20,000 SUN system... D'oh O'pps Yup some of us are computer literate and some of us even design and build them for a living! D'oh... Your notebook could do the job, so get a computer on line and get the damn job running..

Yeah I said that.

C'mon Tim, you're no longer fighting, please just relax.
I'm sure Matt and all the other geeks are doing the best they can to solve this problem.
I appreciate all their efforts.
Like you and so many others, I'm anxious to get more WU's to crunch, to check everyday if someone has already found anything.
Actually I don't believe any of us living now will be able to find them. The signals we're analyzing right now could have been originated hundreds of thousands of years ago but that won't be enough to prevent me from being a part of this great community looking for the "green guys".
Give time to time. Having to wait a few more days for work won't do any harm. As someone wrote here before, raise some funds. Donate for the project. If we all do that Matt can provide a better service.
To you all, keep crunching, we'll find them!
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Message 564656 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:50:35 UTC - in response to Message 564654.  

Pretty harsh. I guess you didn't get the "Reverend" title/handle due to patience, forgiveness and understanding.


I'm guessing that the Reverend title is self-appointed. After looking at his profile, there doesn't seem to be anything that makes me believe he might be a real one.

I'm also guessing that he said that to be troll-ish just to get a bunch of responses.



Maybe Rev. stands for revved up not reverend?
!!Stupidity should be PAINFUL!!
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Message 564658 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 17:58:53 UTC - in response to Message 564648.  

[quote]Most strange thing happened few hours ago, my BOINC cliet downloaded seti@home work unit, my timezone is GMT+2(DST)

10/05/2007 18:43:33|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Started download of file 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149
10/05/2007 18:43:38|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Finished download of file 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149
10/05/2007 18:43:38|SETI@home|[file_xfer] Throughput 98172 bytes/sec

10/05/2007 18:53:15|SETI@home|Starting 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149_4
10/05/2007 18:53:15|SETI@home|Starting task 22se04aa.28538.25218.223570.3.149_4 using setiathome_enhanced version 515

Any idea where this came from???

Br Marko B

i had something like that too..at the same GMT+2..08/05/2007....lol
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Message 564665 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 18:27:26 UTC

Hey guys. Got my systems waiting for the work. As it takes nothing from me to wait for the work and really no skin off my nose. Thanks for all your efforts on this!
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Message 564667 - Posted: 10 May 2007, 18:29:44 UTC - in response to Message 564658.  

i had something like that too..at the same GMT+2..08/05/2007....lol


As said elsewhere in these technical forum posts, the WUs that people are getting now are workunits assigned to other computers that, for one reason or another, timed out (didn't reach the deadline) and needed to be re-sent to be crunched so that the quorum can be met.

These may eventually cease to exist before Friday or next Monday, so I wouldn't count on it happening too often.
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Message boards : Technical News : Timing is Everything (May 09 2007)


 
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