Timing is Everything (May 09 2007)

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Urs Echternacht
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Message 564824 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 1:10:11 UTC - in response to Message 564822.  
Last modified: 11 May 2007, 1:10:37 UTC


Oh, Yeah... Urs, depending on route, that's only 2500-3k miles, depending on whether (and where) they routed around the current mid-west floods

That number i gave was just a guess, the map i have shows the whole USA across two pages (size A4 each).
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Message 564827 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 1:15:59 UTC - in response to Message 564702.  

About 170 pounds max according to the spec sheet.

Without hdd's ? That's appr. 77kg max. Not too heavy for air transport. I actually have no idea about transportation costs in and across the USA. Can anyone give some examples (Something like: what costs 100kg (220 pounds) load from New York to L.A. or same load from Seattle to New Orleans ?)


I'm not sure about costs (they've changed since I was in air package Transport [with UPS...]) but UPS's maximum allowable weight is 150 Lbs.. (changed in 2001 from 70 Lbs) 1 lb (zone 8, which this shippment would be...) costs about 9 bucks, raising by 5 bucks a pound after that, doubled (10 bucks a pound) over 70 Lbs (UPS has to send two people on any run with a package over 70 Lbs. [union {Teamster} rules]) (anytime a package over 70 Lbs has to be handled, two people have to do the handling!)

Prices from 2002...
.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 564829 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 1:22:30 UTC - in response to Message 564827.  
Last modified: 11 May 2007, 1:35:21 UTC

About 170 pounds max according to the spec sheet.

Without hdd's ? That's appr. 77kg max. Not too heavy for air transport. I actually have no idea about transportation costs in and across the USA. Can anyone give some examples (Something like: what costs 100kg (220 pounds) load from New York to L.A. or same load from Seattle to New Orleans ?)


I'm not sure about costs (they've changed since I was in air package Transport [with UPS...]) but UPS's maximum allowable weight is 150 Lbs.. (changed in 2001 from 70 Lbs) 1 lb (zone 8, which this shippment would be...) costs about 9 bucks, raising by 5 bucks a pound after that, doubled (10 bucks a pound) over 70 Lbs (UPS has to send two people on any run with a package over 70 Lbs. [union {Teamster} rules]) (anytime a package over 70 Lbs has to be handled, two people have to do the handling!)

Prices from 2002...

So the costs are calculated by weight and by distance zones. I just try to get the picture of how that kind of transportation is handled in your country.

I just checked what weight limits are usual in Germany for comparison:
70 Lbs (31.5kg) is the max for a packet. If it weighs more and still fits on their trucks it is called bulky freight. Only one price for the whole country.
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Message 564833 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 1:37:17 UTC - in response to Message 564824.  


Oh, Yeah... Urs, depending on route, that's only 2500-3k miles, depending on whether (and where) they routed around the current mid-west floods


That number I gave was just a guess, the map I have shows the whole USA across two pages (size A4 each).


Wasn't there a "scale of miles" on it? or didn't you have a ruler handy?

Of course, I know, since I've driven from Tennesee to Arizona on a big-rig truck, (about 2.5 days, team driving)... and from Arizona to the S.F. Bay Area (about 1 day, team driving)(different trip...) (and my home!)

(days include fuel stops, coffee breaks, bathroom breaks, vehicle inspections, stops at truck scales, etc., following current Federal regulations for hours of service - the truck is moving at all times [at 65-70 MPH, except in CA...] except as noted - Average speed is about 45-50 MPH)
.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 564839 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 1:45:25 UTC - in response to Message 564829.  
Last modified: 11 May 2007, 2:11:20 UTC

About 170 pounds max according to the spec sheet.

Without hdd's ? That's appr. 77kg max. Not too heavy for air transport. I actually have no idea about transportation costs in and across the USA. Can anyone give some examples (Something like: what costs 100kg (220 pounds) load from New York to L.A. or same load from Seattle to New Orleans ?)


I'm not sure about costs (they've changed since I was in air package Transport [with UPS...]) but UPS's maximum allowable weight is 150 Lbs.. (changed in 2001 from 70 Lbs) 1 lb (zone 8, which this shippment would be...) costs about 9 bucks, raising by 5 bucks a pound after that, doubled (10 bucks a pound) over 70 Lbs (UPS has to send two people on any run with a package over 70 Lbs. [union {Teamster} rules]) (anytime a package over 70 Lbs has to be handled, two people have to do the handling!)

Prices from 2002...

So the costs are calculated by weight and by distance zones. I just try to get the picture of how that kind of transportation is handled in your country.

I just checked what weight limits are usual in Germany for comparison:
70 Lbs (31.5kg) is the max for a packet. If it weighs more and still fits on their trucks it is called bulky freight. Only one price for the whole country.


Germany (even now that it is united!) has a longest haul of about 1000 miles from the German-Swiss border to the German-Denmark border... the longest haul in the USA would be San Diego (at the southwest corner of CA) to the eastern part of Maine, which could exceed (depending on routing...) 4500 miles... (remember - 1.6+ Km to the mile...)

United Parcel Service (the UPS I was reffering to...) has the "zone" system so that a person shipping across town, or within 100 miles, (etc) doesn't pay for the extra fuel a package going across the country would need... there are 8 zones, based on the distance the package is moving (note that a package moves from the shipper to the nearest UPS facility, from there to the nearest "lumping" facility [if the nearest facility isn't a "lumping" facility...] to the destination's nearest "lumping" facility, to [if the "lumping" facility isn't the same as...] the nearest UPS facility to the destination, to the destination.) Generally, if you're watching the package via tracking, you can only see the last facility the package moved through...

Note that the "lumping" facilities take a large number of packages from (say) the San Francisco Bay Area, and put them all on one truck, bound for (say) the Chicago, Illinois area. (actually there's enough traffic so that about 6 trailers go this route, daily, hauled by three (CA) or two (NV, UT, WY and maybe other states on the way) tractor units [California does not allow the "triple tow" that the mentioned states do...])

(in Sparks, NV, there's a large UPS yard that breaks triples into doubles for California... there's a regular driver that just drives to Sparks, drops his trailers, and (after a meal break!) turns around, and hooks on to a set of doubles for the trip back to California.
.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 564843 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 2:03:19 UTC - in response to Message 564839.  

...
the longest haul in the USA would be San Diego (at the southwest corner of CA) to the eastern part of Maine, which could exceed (depending on routing...) 4500 miles... (remember - 1.6+ Km to the mile...)

As you can see i try to use the different weight and distance measurements side by side. (1 Lbs = 0.453kg, 1 mile = 1.604 km) No ruler around and the map is measuring km not miles. (3000 miles = 4812 km)
I guess my guess was an overguess.
Thanks for your help.
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Message 564845 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 2:08:10 UTC - in response to Message 564721.  

24tb? In a few years this is gonna be one HDD..

Remember the times when 20-40 MB hdd was impossible to be filled? How long it took to jump from 120-160MB to 120-160GB? Tens of terabytes is just a few steps ahead.


I remember using personal computers when cassette recorders were the "bulk storage" device for PC's, 160K, 5 1/4 inch single sided floppies and CPM <grin>. 16 Kb was quite a bit of memory. The first one I played with was a TRS-80 Mod 1. However though, I wasn't around when they "invented" dirt ... but that was a long time ago <very big grin>!
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Message 564850 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 2:22:07 UTC - in response to Message 564845.  

24tb? In a few years this is gonna be one HDD..

Remember the times when 20-40 MB hdd was impossible to be filled? How long it took to jump from 120-160MB to 120-160GB? Tens of terabytes is just a few steps ahead.


I remember using personal computers when cassette recorders were the "bulk storage" device for PC's, 160K, 5 1/4 inch single sided floppies and CPM <grin>. 16 Kb was quite a bit of memory. The first one I played with was a TRS-80 Mod 1. However though, I wasn't around when they "invented" dirt ... but that was a long time ago <very big grin>!


Ah, yes, the "Trash-80-1" - Didn't get one of those, but I ran a Trash-80 CoCo (first [silver] version) for about two years - even upgraded it to 64Kb! I did a sort on it that took about 48 hours (on a very similar disk drive to the one mentioned - I think I got the double-sided 360k drive, though.) so the longer run times of (say) Astropulse (over on SETI beta, for those that don't know...) don't bother me as much as they do some... (one is at 90 Hrs [and counting!] and is only 60% done...)
.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 564854 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 2:28:22 UTC - in response to Message 564833.  


Wasn't there a "scale of miles" on it? or didn't you have a ruler handy?

Of course, I know, since I've driven from Tennesee to Arizona on a big-rig truck, (about 2.5 days, team driving)... and from Arizona to the S.F. Bay Area (about 1 day, team driving)(different trip...) (and my home!)

(days include fuel stops, coffee breaks, bathroom breaks, vehicle inspections, stops at truck scales, etc., following current Federal regulations for hours of service - the truck is moving at all times [at 65-70 MPH, except in CA...] except as noted - Average speed is about 45-50 MPH)

I just found a ruler in the other rooms and put some straight lines across that map:
Memphis to San Francisco: ca. 3000 km = 1870 miles
San Diego to Fundybai: ca. 4600 km = 2868 miles
Kap Flattery to Key West: ca. 4800 km = 3000 miles
I'm not sure if that map is correct, because i remember to have heard some other numbers at school.

I see, with a truck across the land, hopefully it was not only a job but sometimes fun. Never had that experience.
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Message 564856 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 2:29:16 UTC - in response to Message 564829.  

So the costs are calculated by weight and by distance zones. I just try to get the picture of how that kind of transportation is handled in your country.

Here in Australia the freight companies generally work it out on volume & weight with some distance charges thown in for good measure.
Nothing much over 5kg goes by air unless you are really desperate & have plenty of money. The thought of sending anything 20kg or heavier by air would be terrifying.

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Message 564874 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 3:18:16 UTC - in response to Message 564856.  

So the costs are calculated by weight and by distance zones. I just try to get the picture of how that kind of transportation is handled in your country.

Here in Australia the freight companies generally work it out on volume & weight with some distance charges thrown in for good measure.
Nothing much over 5kg goes by air unless you are really desperate & have plenty of money. The thought of sending anything 20kg or heavier by air would be terrifying.

So that's where You're from, Nice place. Saw some of Australia recently on KCET TV channel 28 out of Los Angeles, A fellow name of Huel Howser was down there filming last year I guess, all by Himself. I liked the red soil, looks sort of like soil in parts of the south eastern US and yet has more in common with parts of the south west and yet doesn't.
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
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Message 564877 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 3:31:45 UTC - in response to Message 564854.  


Wasn't there a "scale of miles" on it? or didn't you have a ruler handy?

Of course, I know, since I've driven from Tennesee to Arizona on a big-rig truck, (about 2.5 days, team driving)... and from Arizona to the S.F. Bay Area (about 1 day, team driving)(different trip...) (and my home!)

(days include fuel stops, coffee breaks, bathroom breaks, vehicle inspections, stops at truck scales, etc., following current Federal regulations for hours of service - the truck is moving at all times [at 65-70 MPH, except in CA...] except as noted - Average speed is about 45-50 MPH)

I just found a ruler in the other rooms and put some straight lines across that map:
Memphis to San Francisco: ca. 3000 km = 1870 miles
San Diego to Fundy bay: ca. 4600 km = 2868 miles (note: Fundy Bay is in Canada!)
Cape Flattery to Key West: ca. 4800 km = 3000 miles
I'm not sure if that map is correct, because i remember to have heard some other numbers at school.


The numbers you're giving are "airline" miles; (also known as "as the crow [or other bird] flies") the numbers I'm thinking of (and giving) are "Highway miles" - how far a vehicle has to travel between towns (almost always, if not always, larger than "airline miles"... Big rig trucks have to travel on roads, which seldom are either a) straight or b) direct routes!) The most direct route from (as an example) Memphis to S.F. would be Memphis to Rock Island, Illinois, (Interstate (I)-45[?] ) then Rock Island, IL to San Francisco, CA (I-80). I can tell you that I-80 adds considerable miles to the "airline miles" (due to curves) over both the Rockie (Wyoming and Utah) and the Sierra Nevada (California) mountain ranges and detours around several mountain ranges in Nevada, having travelled the route! I-70 is more direct, but doesn't allow trucks through a pass (through the Rockies) between Salt Lake City, Utah and Denver, Colorado...

I see, with a truck across the land, hopefully it was not only a job but sometimes fun. Never had that experience.


You do get to see the country... when you aren't sleeping! (Or driving after dark!) In the 3 months I was a long-haul driver, (never getting closer than 20 miles [32 Km] to my house, BTW) I drove through (or in) 29 of the lower 48 states. (the company I worked for didn't go to Alaska or Hawaii...) Note that I never was routed to New England, where the states are small, and that I'm counting states I slept through! (Pennsylvania and Maryland)
.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 564908 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 5:43:07 UTC - in response to Message 564821.  



Nedd, FedEx (any part!) does not ship by train... (they don't own a railroad...)

... and I thought much the same of United Parcel, since they also do not own a railroad -- until I received a couple of packages with "exceptions" that said "the train was late."

If UPS finds an advantage using rail, it wouldn't surprise me to see some "ground" part of FedEx also using rail.

FedEx also has a service called "FedEx Home" which delivers packages Tuesday through Saturday -- which is interesting because when the last Harry Potter book was released (just after midnight on a Saturday) UPS Ground trucks ran that day, instead of giving up all that business to FedEx Home.
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Message 564910 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 6:08:44 UTC - in response to Message 564017.  

I became addicted to SETI in the mid nineties. Joined, got relocated to a new project, lost my connection, joined again and crunched for a while. I was relocated to Singapore and discovered SETI again. I think you guys do a great job. I can't wait for new work. I have 4 machines ready to go back to work.

Thanks Guys
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Message 564993 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 10:08:05 UTC
Last modified: 11 May 2007, 10:11:07 UTC

many carriers (read -- trucking companies) charge by the mile using "rand mcnally's - household movers guide". Basically it picks points in a city and measures the shortest road miles between points. It uses this to both charge customers and pay drivers. If you're a trucker it probably seems like every departure and destination is on the "far side" of these points and they have to eat those miles. Of course there are fuel surcharges, and different prices for LTL (less than load) and full load. Then there's the "green zone" (no not earth friendly kind of thing). The N.E states (NY, NJ, etc) generally take longer to drive a mile in due to congestion and higher fuel prices, so companies kick in (and charge) a couple extra pennies per mile in those states.
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Message 565052 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 12:07:42 UTC - in response to Message 564233.  

I got a couple hectic gigs this weekend (one Friday night in Oakland, the other Saturday night in LA)


Gigs?

I haven't heard that word since, well, the 60's.

Eric, are you as old/older than me or doing the retro :)

Had doobies back then too and they weren't the Doobie Brothers either :)



What do you mean you haven't heard the term "gigs" since the '60s? where have ya been man!! I have been a pro/working musician all of my adult life and many folks that I know, young and old, still refer to a job (weather music related or not) as a gig!! Just thought I'd toss in my 2 cents worth!! Oh, and by the way, to all behind the scenes at SETI, keep up the good work! There are still a great many of us long time crunchers who stand behind you and can appreciate the commitment you all have to the cause! And to those who are considering abandoning ship, it's a long swim back to shore.....
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Message 565222 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 16:35:48 UTC - in response to Message 565052.  
Last modified: 11 May 2007, 16:48:51 UTC

And to those who are considering abandoning ship, it's a long swim back to shore.....


and the reference is to??? [EDIT] because I'm considering it.
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Message 565286 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 18:27:41 UTC - in response to Message 565222.  

And to those who are considering abandoning ship, it's a long swim back to shore.....


and the reference is to??? [EDIT] because I'm considering it.


Consider it and do it if that's what you want. Nobody is going to beg you to stay. In terms of computing contribution, you wouldn't be much of a loss, anyway.

On the other hand, stay if you want to.


Be lucky

Neil



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Message 565289 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 18:37:14 UTC - in response to Message 565286.  

And to those who are considering abandoning ship, it's a long swim back to shore.....


and the reference is to??? [EDIT] because I'm considering it.


Consider it and do it if that's what you want. Nobody is going to beg you to stay. In terms of computing contribution, you wouldn't be much of a loss, anyway.

On the other hand, stay if you want to.



Quite frankly, I will do whatever I decide, I really don't need to be coddled.

I'm also quite sure I didn't indicate or otherwise suggest I was a major contributor.

JC made a statement I didn't understand so I asked for a clarification.

Getting back to your statement - it is the attacking mode that I've seen in the past weeks that has me reconsidering whether I'm having fun doing this, and recently I haven't been.

So, as I said earlier, I'm considering it.





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Message 565295 - Posted: 11 May 2007, 18:47:22 UTC - in response to Message 565289.  

So, as I said earlier, I'm considering it.


I've only "known" you for a short time, and from what I've seen, you seem rather rational most of the time. I'd hate to see anyone leave that has their head on straight. I can only hope you reconsider. If you are feeling attacked, maybe taking some time away from the forums to clear your head my be a good idea.

No sense in quiting (and punishing the project) because of a few disagreements. I should know - I've had a few people bust my chops a couple times! LOL Sometimes I was in the wrong, sometimes I was in the right. But I'm not going to take it out on everyone at Berkeley because of it.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Life's too short.
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Message boards : Technical News : Timing is Everything (May 09 2007)


 
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