HHO production


Links to companies selling HHO generators and Welders below in this thread. (Not on "Myth Busters".)




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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Unfortunately, this is a perpetual motion machine - and these have been proven impossible. The basic idea expounded is to start with water, produce hydrogen and oxygen from the water, turn the hydrogen adn oxygen back into water, and extract extra energy during the entire process.

The first law of thermodynamics states (paraphrased) that energy cannot be produced from nothing. Basically states that a system cannot gain energy.

The second law states that any actions turn some of the available energy into base heat (you can't even break even).

The HHO engine is garbage science.

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BOINC WIKI

Unfortunately, this is a perpetual motion machine - and these have been proven impossible. The basic idea expounded is to start with water, produce hydrogen and oxygen from the water, turn the hydrogen adn oxygen back into water, and extract extra energy during the entire process.

The first law of thermodynamics states (paraphrased) that energy cannot be produced from nothing. Basically states that a system cannot gain energy.

The second law states that any actions turn some of the available energy into base heat (you can't even break even).

The HHO engine is garbage science.

I believe you are correct John, but think that to not do the experiments will do nothing but maintain the status quo with regard to such machines. No perpetual motion machines are not possible, but I do believe we can get a whole lot closer than we currently are. An internal combustion engine is only like 14% efficient. To do these kinds of experiments we may find the key to making them a whole lot more efficient and thus extend the time before they become useless due to the costs in running them. If this HHO concept can be made to run at say 50% efficiency then we have tripled, based on my earlier number, the time we have left before we MUST find something else. Along with that is included the fact that some of us can afford to run them long after others would be forced to stop.

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Unfortunately, this is a perpetual motion machine - and these have been proven impossible. The basic idea expounded is to start with water, produce hydrogen and oxygen from the water, turn the hydrogen adn oxygen back into water, and extract extra energy during the entire process.

The first law of thermodynamics states (paraphrased) that energy cannot be produced from nothing. Basically states that a system cannot gain energy.

The second law states that any actions turn some of the available energy into base heat (you can't even break even).

The HHO engine is garbage science.

I believe you are correct John, but think that to not do the experiments will do nothing but maintain the status quo with regard to such machines. No perpetual motion machines are not possible, but I do believe we can get a whole lot closer than we currently are. An internal combustion engine is only like 14% efficient. To do these kinds of experiments we may find the key to making them a whole lot more efficient and thus extend the time before they become useless due to the costs in running them. If this HHO concept can be made to run at say 50% efficiency then we have tripled, based on my earlier number, the time we have left before we MUST find something else. Along with that is included the fact that some of us can afford to run them long after others would be forced to stop.

Yes, we need new forms of energy storage for automobiles. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is energy storage. Fuel cells are the current best bet for efficiently turning hydrogen into energy to move a vehicle (and the efficiency is well above 50%). The problem is that the cost is currently much too high for production, and the things are too heavy. Both problems are being worked on. If there is a production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle available that meets my needs by the time I need a new car, I will probably buy one. This is unlikely, but plugin hybrids are more likely to be ready at that point.

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BOINC WIKI

Not sure where the "perpetual motion/energy" thread is but this is the "Run your car on water fuel" thread.

They are not the same thing!

Yes, we need new forms of energy storage for automobiles. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is energy storage. Fuel cells are the current best bet for efficiently turning hydrogen into energy to move a vehicle (and the efficiency is well above 50%). The problem is that the cost is currently much too high for production, and the things are too heavy. Both problems are being worked on. If there is a production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle available that meets my needs by the time I need a new car, I will probably buy one. This is unlikely, but plugin hybrids are more likely to be ready at that point.

"Horse fritters."



Proof, not opinions shown here:

Rewind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlLqkUHd0


Buy an HHO welder:

http://hytechapps.com/


HHO Cars coming soon to a city near you:

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C8115/


Buy an HHO generator:

http://www.magdrivehydro-gen.com/

We use petroleum because the powers that be/investors/big petrol corps like their position.

Operation
Iraqi
Liberation

I've heard plenty of you side swipe this thread with unsubstantiated comments. Not one proven bit of evidence. Just negative comments.

I challenge you to actually watch the material I have presented and disprove it.

Perpetual motion etc comments do NOT apply to this thread.


Can you do it or will you flap your lips with the same old banter?





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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Not sure where the "perpetual motion/energy" thread is but this is the "Run your car on water fuel" thread.

They are not the same thing!

Yes, we need new forms of energy storage for automobiles. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it is energy storage. Fuel cells are the current best bet for efficiently turning hydrogen into energy to move a vehicle (and the efficiency is well above 50%). The problem is that the cost is currently much too high for production, and the things are too heavy. Both problems are being worked on. If there is a production hydrogen fuel cell vehicle available that meets my needs by the time I need a new car, I will probably buy one. This is unlikely, but plugin hybrids are more likely to be ready at that point.

"Horse fritters."



Proof, not opinions shown here:

Rewind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlLqkUHd0


Buy an HHO welder:

http://hytechapps.com/


HHO Cars coming soon to a city near you:

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C8115/


Buy an HHO generator:

http://www.magdrivehydro-gen.com/

We use petroleum because the powers that be/investors/big petrol corps like their position.

Operation
Iraqi
Liberation

I've heard plenty of you side swipe this thread with unsubstantiated comments. Not one proven bit of evidence. Just negative comments.

I challenge you to actually watch the material I have presented and disprove it.

Perpetual motion etc comments do NOT apply to this thread.


Can you do it or will you flap your lips with the same old banter?





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The video was fairly clear that he claimed to get more energy out by turning the hydrogen and oxygen back into water than was spent in generating the hydrogen and oxygen from the water. This breaks all of the rules of thermodynamics, and is would be the basis for a perpetual motion machine. Sorry, but the science behind that video is junk - you cannot get more energy out of a closed system than was put into it, you can't even break even.

Burning fossil fuels is NOT a closed system. The fuel has energy when it is pumped from the ground. Water -> 2H2 + O2 -> Water is a closed system. While he may have found a more efficient method of generating hydrogen and oxygen from water, it CANNOT be generating more energy when the hydrogen and oxygen are recombined than went into it when the hydrogen and oxygen were created from the water in the first place. He is either missing some energy input into cracking the water, or he is mis-measuring the amount of energy created when going the other way.

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BOINC WIKI

Ah,

I see the misunderstanding. Thank you John McLeod VII. My fault for not reviewing my own data before looking for the error here.

May I ask which video you heard this in?

My point is you can run your auto on water, you can weld with it, and you can generate electricity with it. You can use it as an additive for gas.


Thanks for the explanation and not letting me stew in the seventh circle of hell trying to figure out where I lost everyone.


Your friend,

MrGray

:)

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Not sure where the "perpetual motion/energy" thread is

It is here

And another thread about free energy.

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me@rescam.org

Cool!

Thanks Misfit!!!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Ah,

I see the misunderstanding. Thank you John McLeod VII. My fault for not reviewing my own data before looking for the error here.

May I ask which video you heard this in?

My point is you can run your auto on water, you can weld with it, and you can generate electricity with it. You can use it as an additive for gas.


Thanks for the explanation and not letting me stew in the seventh circle of hell trying to figure out where I lost everyone.


Your friend,

MrGray

:)

The video that you linked to in your post that opened the thread.

I would like to correct your statement. You can do all of those things (run your car, generate electricity, ...) with hydrogen and oxygen creating water. You need to use energy of some sort to create the hydrogen and oxygen from water, and you need to put slightly more energy into creating the hydrogen and oxygen from the water than you get out by turning the hydrogen and oxygen back into water.

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BOINC WIKI

Thank you, again,

The video that you linked to in your post that opened the thread.

Thank you.

I would like to correct your statement. You can do all of those things (run your car, generate electricity, ...) with hydrogen and oxygen creating water. You need to use energy of some sort to create the hydrogen and oxygen from water, and you need to put slightly more energy into creating the hydrogen and oxygen from the water than you get out by turning the hydrogen and oxygen back into water.

My ref to the water exhaust was probably meant to show how environmentally friendly this technology is because other than that I have no interest in the chemical retransformation back in to water.

and you need to put slightly more energy into creating the hydrogen and oxygen from the water than you get out by turning the hydrogen and oxygen back into water.

This is why God made Alternators and power strips.

Just as gas cars and the hybrid gas/elec cars operate today, plus a braking tech that generates electricity while braking,(Also implementable in HHO/elec.), this is not an issue. Never was for me.


I will look for where I said "You can do all of those things (run your car, generate electricity, ...) with hydrogen and oxygen creating water.

To be clear on my point here again: I am uninterested in the creation of free energy for the purpose of this thread.

My point is you can run your auto on water, you can weld with it, and you can generate electricity with it. You can use it as an additive for gas.

Please disregard any references to this in any of my prior posts. I may have been a copy/paste victim of my self.




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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Do you remember the Mechanical Universe on PBS? I seem to remember the episode on the conservation of energy applying to this topic.

Guess what? Sign up and stream all the episodes to your computer with video on demand (VoD)!

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me@rescam.org

Thanks Misfit!!!


This is excellent!




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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Your welcome! Or perhaps I'm thinking of Chapter 46, Engine of Nature. I remember the dynamics of the steam engine were discussed in the example I was thinking of. Yep, this was the one.

"No engine can reach the goal of perfect efficiency."

FF has some trouble with the size of the popups. I end up streaming in IE.

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me@rescam.org

Thank you, again,

The video that you linked to in your post that opened the thread.

Thank you.

I would like to correct your statement. You can do all of those things (run your car, generate electricity, ...) with hydrogen and oxygen creating water. You need to use energy of some sort to create the hydrogen and oxygen from water, and you need to put slightly more energy into creating the hydrogen and oxygen from the water than you get out by turning the hydrogen and oxygen back into water.

My ref to the water exhaust was probably meant to show how environmentally friendly this technology is because other than that I have no interest in the chemical retransformation back in to water.

and you need to put slightly more energy into creating the hydrogen and oxygen from the water than you get out by turning the hydrogen and oxygen back into water.

This is why God made Alternators and power strips.

Just as gas cars and the hybrid gas/elec cars operate today, plus a braking tech that generates electricity while braking,(Also implementable in HHO/elec.), this is not an issue. Never was for me.


I will look for where I said "You can do all of those things (run your car, generate electricity, ...) with hydrogen and oxygen creating water.

To be clear on my point here again: I am uninterested in the creation of free energy for the purpose of this thread.

My point is you can run your auto on water, you can weld with it, and you can generate electricity with it. You can use it as an additive for gas.

Please disregard any references to this in any of my prior posts. I may have been a copy/paste victim of my self.




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I see that we are basically on the same page. I would really like something like this for cars.

The one thing that you have to worry about is the pollution created by the power plant that creates the electricity used to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. However, this can be fixed too - as long aspeople get over the idea the nuclear power plants are bad. Yes, solar electric, wind, and hydroelectric don't polute while in operation, but each one has its problems. Solar has a toxic waste stream in production, wind kills birds, and hydroelectric kills fish.

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BOINC WIKI

Sometimes hydroelectric power also kills people. I was a voluntary member of the rescue teams in the 1963 Vajont dam disaster which killed 2000 people in Italy when a gigantic landslide from Mount Toc slid into the artificial lake and destroyed Longarone and other villages with a huge wave. The dam is still standing.
Tullio

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I see that we are basically on the same page. I would really like something like this for cars.

The one thing that you have to worry about is the pollution created by the power plant that creates the electricity used to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. However, this can be fixed too - as long aspeople get over the idea the nuclear power plants are bad. Yes, solar electric, wind, and hydroelectric don't polute while in operation, but each one has its problems. Solar has a toxic waste stream in production, wind kills birds, and hydroelectric kills fish.

Almost... You see, there is no need for a corporation to make HHO. You put water in a tank on your car and that's it.


Like the president says:

I believe that Human beings and fish can coexhist peacefully.


LOL

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9446727

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Almost... You see, there is no need for a corporation to make HHO. You put water in a tank on your car and that's it.

That is the part that won't work. Where does the energy come from to turn the water into hydrogen and oxygen (it has to come from someplace)? Remember that you get less energy out than was put in.

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BOINC WIKI

I see that we are basically on the same page. I would really like something like this for cars.

The one thing that you have to worry about is the pollution created by the power plant that creates the electricity used to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. However, this can be fixed too - as long aspeople get over the idea the nuclear power plants are bad. Yes, solar electric, wind, and hydroelectric don't polute while in operation, but each one has its problems. Solar has a toxic waste stream in production, wind kills birds, and hydroelectric kills fish.

Actually I read in a journal somewhere that some hydroelectric dams produce as much CO2 and methane as a fossil fuelled power stations.

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Account frozen...

Almost... You see, there is no need for a corporation to make HHO. You put water in a tank on your car and that's it.

That is the part that won't work. Where does the energy come from to turn the water into hydrogen and oxygen (it has to come from someplace)? Remember that you get less energy out than was put in.

How this application works seems to be just the application of electricity. You have 2 electrodes in the water and hydrogen splits out and rises to the top. Similar to what the Germans did in WWII to make Heavy Water. Now they made thousands of gallons of the stuff, Heavy Water, but they made it by spliting the H20 with electricity. So maybe a battery to get you started and then recharge the battery as you go along. Hydrogen was used by the Germans to make fertilizer. I don't know that process. The Germans did add lime and phosphate to the water to make it VERY caustic, this made the Heavy Water split out and combine better. All this was explained on the Discovery Channel when they talked about the ferry boat sinking during WWII in Finland, I think.

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