Linux/x86_64

Questions and Answers : Unix/Linux : Linux/x86_64
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Profile Dingo
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Message 535626 - Posted: 23 Mar 2007, 18:10:09 UTC

The applications page says that there is a 64 bit version.
Linux/x86_64 5.12 1 May 2006 22:43:19 UTC

But when I try and use it on my AMD64 with Linux 64 bit and BOINC 64 bit I get the error that
"Message from server: platform 'x86_64-pc-linux-gnu' not found"

So I guess that you page http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/apps.php

is incorrect.

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Robert Smith
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Message 535636 - Posted: 23 Mar 2007, 18:35:21 UTC
Last modified: 23 Mar 2007, 18:44:35 UTC

Yes, that information is not accurate. I think that the Linux 64bit app is only available for the beta testers at this time. Also, you will have noted that there is no official BOINC client available from the download page which is 64bit.

There are a couple of ways to work around this:

1. Use a third-party 64bit SETI app.

Take a look at the thread: SETI Enhanced binaries for other Platforms

2. Use the official supported 32bit BOINC client.

The 32bit client works fine with the 32bit (and 64bit) SETI app in 64bit Linux.
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Profile Neil Walker
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Message 538796 - Posted: 30 Mar 2007, 21:11:43 UTC - in response to Message 535636.  

The 32bit client works fine with the 32bit (and 64bit) SETI app in 64bit Linux.


That is utterly wrong. 64bit Linux will not run any 32bit apps at all.




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Neil



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Dotsch
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Message 539030 - Posted: 31 Mar 2007, 8:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 538796.  

The 32bit client works fine with the 32bit (and 64bit) SETI app in 64bit Linux.


That is utterly wrong. 64bit Linux will not run any 32bit apps at all.

No. If you install the ia32 lib package, you can run 32 bit apps on a 64 bit Linux.
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Profile Neil Walker
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Message 539040 - Posted: 31 Mar 2007, 10:07:35 UTC - in response to Message 539030.  

The 32bit client works fine with the 32bit (and 64bit) SETI app in 64bit Linux.


That is utterly wrong. 64bit Linux will not run any 32bit apps at all.

No. If you install the ia32 lib package, you can run 32 bit apps on a 64 bit Linux.


Exactly. Then you effectively have 64/32 bit Linux. The 32 bit userspace libraries are not installed by default on many 64 bit distros therefore it is wrong to assume that 32 bit apps can be run.

FWIW, my server here is sitting idle (as far as Seti is concerned) awaiting a 64 bit Seti app. :(


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Neil



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Message 539048 - Posted: 31 Mar 2007, 11:03:16 UTC - in response to Message 538796.  
Last modified: 31 Mar 2007, 11:04:03 UTC

The 32bit client works fine with the 32bit (and 64bit) SETI app in 64bit Linux.

That is utterly wrong. 64bit Linux will not run any 32bit apps at all.

For something which is 'utterly wrong', it works just fine over here.

As Dotsch has already pointed out, if you install the ia32lib package, you can run 32bit apps on 64bit Linux. Many of the better distros include the 32bit libs 'out of the box' automatically in any case, therfore I stand by my original reply.

FWIW, my server here is sitting idle (as far as Seti is concerned) awaiting a 64 bit Seti app. :(

Fixable, as detailed above, if you want to.
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Profile Neil Walker
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Message 539104 - Posted: 31 Mar 2007, 13:40:16 UTC - in response to Message 539048.  

As Dotsch has already pointed out, if you install the ia32lib package, you can run 32bit apps on 64bit Linux. Many of the better distros include the 32bit libs 'out of the box' automatically in any case, therfore I stand by my original reply.


Fine. Cause confusion and disappointment. One of THE most respected and popular distros, Debian, does NOT include 32 bit userspace by default. Telling people that 64 bit Linux runs 32 bit apps is misleading. You might as well tell them Linux runs Windows apps. Both cases are similar - they depend on a complex add-on set of libraries. Many users will not be able to install such environments for a variety of reasons. Your original statement is far too sweeping and, as it stands, wrong.

FWIW, my server here is sitting idle (as far as Seti is concerned) awaiting a 64 bit Seti app. :(

Fixable, as detailed above, if you want to.


I have good security reasons for not wanting to.


Be lucky

Neil



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Message 539149 - Posted: 31 Mar 2007, 16:11:53 UTC - in response to Message 539104.  
Last modified: 31 Mar 2007, 17:03:25 UTC

Fine. Cause confusion and disappointment. One of THE most respected and popular distros, Debian, does NOT include 32 bit userspace by default. Telling people that 64 bit Linux runs 32 bit apps is misleading. You might as well tell them Linux runs Windows apps. Both cases are similar - they depend on a complex add-on set of libraries. Many users will not be able to install such environments for a variety of reasons. Your original statement is far too sweeping and, as it stands, wrong.

I would suggest that you need to read up on Debian64:

http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/
Native execution of legacy 32bit binaries is supported by the kernel, and core libraries are provided by the ia32-libs package.


http://www.debian.org/ports/
Port to the 64 bit AMD64 (Opteron) processors. The goal is to support both 32bit- and 64bit-userland on this architecture. This port also supports Intel's EM64T architecture.


I note that you are a Gentoo user:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-amd64-faq.xml
Every AMD64 processor is able to run 32bit code as well as 64bit code. However, when you have a 32bit application, you are unable to mix it with 64bit libraries or vice versa. You can, however, natively run 32bit applications if all shared libraries it needs are available as 32bit objects. You can choose whether you want multilib support or not by selecting the according profile. The default is a multilib-enabled profile.


Other than that, I'm content to respect your right to your OPINION in this matter.
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Message 539212 - Posted: 31 Mar 2007, 20:45:17 UTC - in response to Message 539149.  

http://www.debian.org/ports/amd64/
Native execution of legacy 32bit binaries is supported by the kernel, and core libraries are provided by the ia32-libs package.


http://www.debian.org/ports/
Port to the 64 bit AMD64 (Opteron) processors. The goal is to support both 32bit- and 64bit-userland on this architecture. This port also supports Intel's EM64T architecture.
[/quote]

A very selective bit of editing. 32 bit userspace is NOT installed by default in Debian at the present time - nor in RHEL 4 nor many other distros. It has to be installed as an add-on. On many systems, even an add-on won't help as the underlying hardware does not support 32 bits. You are looking at things from the very narrow perspective of a hobbyist with a PC. Many of the people crunching for Seti are doing so on machines at work without the freedom to install the latest glitzy Ubuntoo or whatever the latest PC toy is. 64 bit Linux has been around a lot longer than you probably realise.

I note that you are a Gentoo user:


I use many distros, including Debian, in the course of my work. Gentoo just happens to be what I choose to run at home.

I give up now as I see you are too stubborn to realise that 40 years in computers and 15 years in Linux has actually taught me something.



Be lucky

Neil



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Robert Smith
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Message 539241 - Posted: 31 Mar 2007, 22:36:13 UTC - in response to Message 539212.  
Last modified: 31 Mar 2007, 23:24:44 UTC

A very selective bit of editing.

When the quote source is directly linked, so that it can be read in full context? Hardly...

32 bit userspace is NOT installed by default in Debian at the present time

Should I believe a statement of fact by Debian about their own product, or your own personal opinion? The two are very clearly at odds...

On many systems, even an add-on won't help as the underlying hardware does not support 32 bits.

Then I guess those platforms - whatever they are - would *not* be running Linux x86_64, which is what this thread is about...

You are looking at things from the very narrow perspective of a hobbyist with a PC...<snipped a bit>... I give up now as I see you are too stubborn to realise that 40 years in computers and 15 years in Linux has actually taught me something.

As I have said previously - I respect your right to your OPINION in this matter.

I now consider my input to this topic to be closed, so will not reply further.
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Message 539749 - Posted: 1 Apr 2007, 20:57:10 UTC - in response to Message 539212.  

40 years in computers and 15 years in Linux has actually taught me something.

And evidently not enough.

To err is human; to moo, bovine.
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Profile Neil Walker
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Message 541000 - Posted: 4 Apr 2007, 22:31:45 UTC - in response to Message 539749.  

40 years in computers and 15 years in Linux has actually taught me something.

And evidently not enough.


And the value of your comment is .... ?

I know enough to understand what I read, unlike Robert Smith:

A complete 64bit userland

The AMD64 port is thoroughly 64bit, allowing the user to benefit from all advantages this architecture has compared to i386:

* no memory segmentation in low and high memory
* up to 512GiB virtual address space per process (instead of 2GiB)
* 1TiB physical memory support instead of 4GiB (or 64GiB with the PAE extension)
* 16 general purpose registers in the CPU instead of 8
* gcc defaults to SSE2 math instead of 387 FPU
* gcc omits frame-pointers by default at -O2
* compilation time optimization uses a common base for AMD64/EM64T instead of legacy i386 cruft
* memory pages are not executable by default



That, and my own experience show that the 32-bit userspace has to be installed by the user if there is a need to run 32 bit programs.

Be lucky

Neil



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Questions and Answers : Unix/Linux : Linux/x86_64


 
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