Andy

What an Excellent Idea!

The short call where I gave Dan, Eric's phone number he was upset to cause such a stir... All I can say is there there are options to help cure Kryten's woes...

Couldn't we let Berkeley keep their naming sequence, and have an entry on the server status page saying who/what donated item.

Andy

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Ok....with all due respect to Eric & Matt and the crew at UB. Let me summarize the relevant concern...and someone other than Poppa (no offense)-preferably Eric or Matt-please respond...

1) You need a server...

Yes, we do.

2) Dr Dan has one and it was researched by Dr. Dan to fit your needs as closely as possible.

I spoke on the phone to Dr. Dan this morning and I'm looking into whether it can be done.

3rd logical step---JUMP AT IT-SAY YES AND TAKE IT REGARDLESS OF WHO'S NAME IS OR ISN'T ON IT! Name it Kryten Jr for all I care. Stop waiting for everyone to be in one place---if it fits a need-take it!

It's not quite that simple. I wish it were, but its not. We have to consider not only the 220V issue, but whether it will tax the total power that can be put into the server closet without tripping a breaker and whether the amount of waste heat it produces will overload the air conditioning unit. Then there's the issue of having enough physical space. There's a reason we call it a closet.

This is a massive machine, and it would cost Dr. Dan a significant amount of money to ship it here. If it gets here and there's something that prevents us from using it, I'd feel pretty bad about putting him to the trouble.

As is, it doesn't immediately fit an immediate need. In order to use it, assuming the power supplies aren't easily switched, we'll need 220V in the closet or a replacement power supplies, and we'll need 12 or more GB of additional compatible RAM, we'll need to decide which disk array to use and how to drive it. Dr. Dan will have to ship it across the country. Those things will take a little while to come together (assuming they can come together). There's no point in shipping it until we're sure that we won't hit a show stopper.

In the same conversation he mentioned another machine that is significantly smaller and might do just as well for what we need, so I'm looking into that, too.

We have to check things out because we have received machines that we weren't able to use as we intended because we didn't take a close enough look at the specifications and come up with the right plan.

[edit]
And I don't care about naming. We can call it whatever the donor wants or doesn't want.
[/edit]

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@SETIEric@qoto.org (Mastodon)

Thanks for responding Eric. I understand your concerns much more clearly now.

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http://www.setiusa.net

Eric--Thank you VERY MUCH for straightening out the confusion some of us had over at SetiUSA. I (and I speak for myself here) have a better understanding now.

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@ERIC and the SETI Team: I am a DBA just like you. We have been fighting over the issue of a compatible donated server for two days now. Let's discuss something new.

You were 101% open to the idea of a donated piece of hardware that has a market value of less than $3,000 (no offense Dr.). So this means you are open to ANY suggestion required to get a server. Also, your biggest requirement appears to be RAM. At least 12Gb is needed to host the database.

Server: My company orders quality Servers from Supermicro on a daily basis. Their Intel based servers are stable and have support for most Unix based OS's. A Core 2 based Xeon system can easily hold 16Gb and costs much less than a Sun or Dell based system.

Supermicro http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/3U/6035/SYS-6035B-8R.cfm

Deal Time Link For Barebones Server @ $1700 http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=203320931&SearchEngine=DealTime&SearchTerm=203320931&Type=PE&Category=Comp&Gad=0&dcaid=15891

New Egg Memory Link For Server @ $550 Per 4Gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134316

Solution: Would you consider a SETI community donated box? Eric could you manage a side fund raiser for a new 16Gb Server. Or maybe call back the generous Dr. and see if he could administer the fund (outside fund raising, so you are not implicated by Berkley for fund raising as an employee).

I know this seems like a very easy solution... but it really is. You wanted a server, let us buy it! I am actually using a similar motherboard from Supermicro in a desktop case right now. 4 way SETI processing is very fast.

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Overclock with the MSI G31M3-L and Intel E8600 3.33Ghz
Intel D865GLC Socket 478 Motherboard
~How To Overclock The Eee ASUS 1005HA Netbook To 1.9Ghz~

This is a massive machine, and it would cost Dr. Dan a significant amount of money to ship it here. If it gets here and there's something that prevents us from using it, I'd feel pretty bad about putting him to the trouble.

I will pay for shipping to, and if needed back to my place :), or back to Dr Dan if needed.

OR - send me the invoice for the electrician to install the 220 if the machine would work and the only problem is the power.

I understand power is not the only concern and there are several issues to consider here.

There are solutions to these problems, one only needs to present the problems.

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Reuben

You are welcome to contact me and I will put you in touch with Eric... If there is a way... The More Minds are better than one...

You can reach me al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com

So that you know discussion with Eric and Dan are not an end... But how to get a quote "modern" server or two under Seti... It is tough at the least...

Pappa

@ERIC and the SETI Team: I am a DBA just like you. We have been fighting over the issue of a compatible donated server for two days now. Let's discuss something new.

You were 101% open to the idea of a donated piece of hardware that has a market value of less than $3,000 (no offense Dr.). So this means you are open to ANY suggestion required to get a server. Also, your biggest requirement appears to be RAM. At least 12Gb is needed to host the database.

Server: My company orders quality Servers from Supermicro on a daily basis. Their Intel based servers are stable and have support for most Unix based OS's. A Core 2 based Xeon system can easily hold 16Gb and costs much less than a Sun or Dell based system.

Supermicro http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/3U/6035/SYS-6035B-8R.cfm

Deal Time Link For Barebones Server @ $1700 http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=203320931&SearchEngine=DealTime&SearchTerm=203320931&Type=PE&Category=Comp&Gad=0&dcaid=15891

New Egg Memory Link For Server @ $550 Per 4Gb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134316

Solution: Would you consider a SETI community donated box? Eric could you manage a side fund raiser for a new 16Gb Server. Or maybe call back the generous Dr. and see if he could administer the fund (outside fund raising, so you are not implicated by Berkley for fund raising as an employee).

I know this seems like a very easy solution... but it really is. You wanted a server, let us buy it! I am actually using a similar motherboard from Supermicro in a desktop case right now. 4 way SETI processing is very fast.

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Kevin

email me I will share some of that which can be shared... Actually this goes to any Team Captain/Founder... This goes to that "we" can help...

al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com

I know about my conversation with Dan prior to the phone call that Eric referenced... But then again... The need to to prevent something from showing up on the Seti Loading dock that can not be used (everyone)...

One need is for Server RAM (ECC Reg) that is very expensive for even newer machines... It gets tough as the specific manufacturer may do something that would make harder...

So a consolidated effort to get reasonable hardware to solve the Kryten woes is important... That is important to all of us...

So while I am not perfect, I have a Star, I have RAC, I have motives and I want to Make Sure Seti Survives... I am only Human...

This is a massive machine, and it would cost Dr. Dan a significant amount of money to ship it here. If it gets here and there's something that prevents us from using it, I'd feel pretty bad about putting him to the trouble.

I will pay for shipping to, and if needed back to my place :), or back to Dr Dan if needed.

OR - send me the invoice for the electrician to install the 220 if the machine would work and the only problem is the power.

I understand power is not the only concern and there are several issues to consider here.

There are solutions to these problems, one only needs to present the problems.

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Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Pappa--

I am sorry to say this and I am not trying to rip on you, but we (myself and some others who have not posted here--from different teams not only SETI USA) are extremely put-off by some of your recent comments and would like a way to email Eric directly. For some reason they're emailing me.

While we appreciate your willingness to help your recent comments have made this issue more convoluted. With financial (ie cash) donations, you and Fuzzynoodle are terrific and I don't doubt your sincere wish to help SETI....but to expedite the process of donating hardware some of us would prefer to engage in discussions directly with Eric only (or whoever else he designates in the office).

Eric-if this is not possible please post here so we're all on the same track.

Thanks...

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I have no immediately useful comment to add to this thread. But reading everyone's perspective, even the anti-American ones, I would hope that someday, not too far from now, this project could distribute its servers to partner sites, other than Berkeley. There must be a structure that could work, maintain the integrity of the project, resolve some of the bottlenecks and embrace the larger volunteer computing community.

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May this Farce be with You

Kevin

email me I will share some of that which can be shared... Actually this goes to any Team Captain/Founder... This goes to that "we" can help...

al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com

Sorry Pappa, but this is not for you. I will not email you. That post was not to you, nor in response to you.
Matt knows how to contact me. And I have his email address as well, Nothing personal, but I don't need a middle man.

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say that's a bit narcissistic, and quite offensive.


well it is normal when someone donates something it is named after them.. most schools, have at lest half of there buildings named after someone who paid for it not a teacher who work for that school. the same is said for sports stadiums/bowl games. if your going to have a standerd make mine a double

Got news for you most schools buildings are named after significant people sometimes large donors usually as a memorial for people that have passed away. Most stadiums are named after major corporations which pay big bucks to pin their name on a building; bowl games on the other hand aren't typically named after people. Rose bowl, orange bowl, pro bowl, super bowl, gator bowl, to name but a few or am I loosing you here. So in following with the "standard" it would make sense that the status quo remain the same...in other words it should be up to the SETI staff to name it like I stated in my earlier post.

Hi Dark Angel,

Granted, those are very normal, specially in the US, but I think there's a key difference here (not to mention this a WW project): all those institutions you mentioned are corporations, seeking profit and exposing trade marks as a marketing strategy. If you check the sponsors page, there are several large corporations collaborating with SAH, and ultimately the public recognition of such collaboration in a project like this (be a new server loaned, some piece of SW, cash) is what they can expect in return. Some day in the future we will discover that alien signal and the SAH staff and their sponsors will be held as heroes of mankind, and make truckloads of cash in endorsements, public appearances and seminars all around the world, but until then the best they could hope is to keep working, together, if possible :)

Regards,
Wander

I absolutely agree with you...there is a place where it belongs and many places where it doesn't. I do believe I touched on the whole issue of coporate pandering too with my post. I would point out that my post was in reference to and directed at an individual who is a member of team SETI.USA...from another citizen of the USA...so while it does not necessarily apply to the world it was directed at the short sighted argument directed at me. Now as to large corporations I work for one that has their name on a ball park...renamed several times since it was built, and still referred to by is original name at least by the locals. However I don't necessarily agree with the practice.

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Well, that would be a way of raising money. Have companies bid for the right to name one of the computers.

This is not a bad idea - I don’t see anything wrong with it. Let them bid. At least it is a way to get the needed cash for the project. What does it hurt, and who really cares.

I don't get it. If someone wants to donate cash - they get a green star, if they choose. All of us get recognized for our donations or prosessed work by credits - part of the project, crunch a work unit, get credit. NO DIFFERENCE!
Even our posts our tracked and credited. And to some, the number of posts is a big deal, in the end, who really cares.

However if someone wants to donate hardware and wants some recognition for doing so - we get a bunch of whiners crying not fair not fair.

If team BOINC Synergy or any other team, wanted to gather the pennies and offer a hardware donation, what would be wrong with naming the hardware in their name- if they so choose, or in the name any single person.

Berkeley can only say - no, not interested.

This is Not a big deal guys, get over it. Someone has offered help, and wants to be recognized for his donation, so what!

SETI needs stuff to make it run, if someone donates that stuff, and wants to be recognized for donating they should be allowed to be recognized.

What is the difference of this or having a green star ????????!!!!!!!

You know I have a green star just like you but neither one of us had the audacity to ask that part of the network be named after us. If a team wants to donate fine donate I will recognize that the computer came from them I don't need daily reminder every-time I look at the server board though. In regard to the green star I don't consider it a status symbol though I have it...it wasn't the reason that I donated in the first place. I saw a need and I dug in a filled it. I didn't seek anything more...and was quite surprised to get a nice gift which I was not seeking in the first place. It should be enough to have the thanks of everyone who crunches that the computer if it is accepted makes our experience that much better and makes the network stable again. Some of the members of SETI.USA need to learn humility. I say if they want to ask for recognition give them a blip on the corporate page or create a team donations page where they can have it posted. Again no daily reminders needed. You stated that it is no different then the credits or the green stars or the number of posts a person had made but that's all stuff in common practice...what was asked for is not common practice. So I think you are missing the point no one has cried it's not fair...we have however stated that we find it offensive to have a daily reminder from SETI.USA that they donated a computer.

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< SNIP >

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... we (myself and some others who have not posted here--from different teams not only SETI USA) are extremely put-off by some of your recent comments and would like a way to email Eric directly...

On Eric's Homepage you'll find his email address at the bottom. He has a challenge type spam trap; your first message will get an automated reply which you'll have to read and use to send again to actually get through.

                                                                Joe

A donation is a gift that is freely given without anything expected in return.

Well, that would be a way of raising money. Have companies bid for the right to name one of the computers.

And if they want to do that fine. But let's not hide what that really is - a business transaction.

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me@rescam.org

I don't care if it's seti.usa, kryten, krytenII....or pepsi, doritos, mcdonalds.....or larry. Whatever the machine's called at least it's a working server. If the project team find that they can use it, what diffference does it make as to its name?

What a disappointment, it's sad really. This person, Dan, wants to provide a server to help keep the project running. Now, what I'm seeing is almost nothing but criticism about his request for naming it. Outside of his teammates, I think I see one, just one, comment from one person thanking him without complaining about his wanting to name the server after his team.

Now fast forward to the ultimate goal of this search: just say we find ET, and manage to make contact with an inter-stellar civilisation. How narrow-minded, introspective and trivial will our nationalism look then?

If ET's ever come to this planet, I can only hope and pray they land here in the USA. Why, you may ask? Because if they land just about Anywhere else, it's almost guaranteed that someone will say, "Oh, and while you're here could you please blow up America? We'll owe you one." People all over the world like to complain about how we meddle in world affairs, and that we should just mind our own business. We tried that, got Pearl Harbor and 9/11 in return. Go figure.

If they hadn't thought of it first, and some other team suggested it, they would be the first ones screaming about how wrong it would be to attatch a string like that to a donation.

I have nothing against the offer of the server itself. I just don't think that demanding that a team name be attatched to that server is a good idea.

I mean, if our team got together and donated some drives for the server, does that mean that we could demand that it be named SetiUSA/Calm Chaos?

I mean, if our team got together and donated some drives for the server, does that mean that we could demand that it be named SetiUSA/Calm Chaos?

I'll throw a few pennies their way and combine the name to Calm Synergy.USA

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me@rescam.org

I mean, if our team got together and donated some drives for the server, does that mean that we could demand that it be named SetiUSA/Calm Chaos?

I'll throw a few pennies their way and combine the name to Calm Synergy.USA

Only problem I can see with that...

Calm Chaos and Boinc Synergy are both listed as International teams....

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

If they hadn't thought of it first, and some other team suggested it, they would be the first ones screaming about how wrong it would be to attatch a string like that to a donation.

I have nothing against the offer of the server itself. I just don't think that demanding that a team name be attatched to that server is a good idea.

I mean, if our team got together and donated some drives for the server, does that mean that we could demand that it be named SetiUSA/Calm Chaos?

I guess that you have no clue what's going on here.

Simply amazing... :/

1. When you can authoritatively speak for our team and it's members your opinions will be asked for so please until that happens refrain in the future from making misleading statements like "If they hadn't thought of it first, and some other team suggested it, they would be the first ones screaming about how wrong it would be to attatch a string like that to a donation".

Do you have ANY proof other then your 'personally prejudicial opinions' that we've acted that way in the past? Where is it? what thread? what post? which message board??

I thought not.

2. No one is "demanding" anything and for you to try and say otherwise is at best misleading and at worst....well lets not go there ok? especially when you apparently cannot tell a suggestion from a demand. A "requirement" is hardly a demand, it is a suggestion Matt is free to ignore if he chooses to which BTW, he did not. Since Matt does not have a problem with anything we've suggested and he does not care what the server would be named, only the people who think like you do will have a problem with it so I guess in the big picture it doesn't really matter all that much what you think about what we do now does it....?

3. If you or your Calm Chaos or BS or anyone from any other team were to somehow offer some extra hardware or drives for the server why should we give a flying 'f' what you or anyone else calls the thing as long as you are helping the project..? Again, as Matt said he doesn't care what the servers are named as long as they work reliably so why get your panties in a bunch over something that no one else but you and a few others like you seem to care about.

At least we're prepared to do something tangible as a team to help that would have an IMMEDIATE and POSITIVE impact on the project, so what are YOU as well as the rest of the thread participants here who think like you doing other then spending a great amount of energy worrying about what SETI.USA is doing, going to do or thinking about doing??

Worry more about the future of S@H BOINC instead of SETI.USA and you will do this project a greater service then what you are doing now.

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