Highest Score for Triplets, Gaussians?

Message boards : Number crunching : Highest Score for Triplets, Gaussians?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

AuthorMessage
SlothZ

Send message
Joined: 22 May 05
Posts: 3
Credit: 11,467
RAC: 0
United States
Message 501211 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 22:29:40 UTC

Where are these listed? Who cares about "credit" I wanna see "results".
ID: 501211 · Report as offensive
Profile mikey
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Dec 99
Posts: 4215
Credit: 3,474,603
RAC: 0
United States
Message 501224 - Posted: 11 Jan 2007, 22:53:00 UTC - in response to Message 501211.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2007, 22:53:14 UTC

Where are these listed? Who cares about "credit" I wanna see "results".

At the moment there are no current 'result' pages to look at. They are "in the works" though.

ID: 501224 · Report as offensive
SlothZ

Send message
Joined: 22 May 05
Posts: 3
Credit: 11,467
RAC: 0
United States
Message 501486 - Posted: 12 Jan 2007, 10:37:02 UTC - in response to Message 501224.  

That's unfortunate :/ I was curious how often the seti@home staff get results that seem promising or even excite them. I'm sure it's not too often, but I was curious.
ID: 501486 · Report as offensive
Profile Andy Lee Robinson
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 8 Dec 05
Posts: 630
Credit: 59,973,836
RAC: 0
Hungary
Message 501653 - Posted: 12 Jan 2007, 19:21:52 UTC

This is a serious point...

The only thing we have to show for our efforts are credits, with absolutely no indication of what the results are, what how many and what likely sources there may be, what fraction of samples have interesting results, and a top hundred of candidate signals and their characterizations of why they may be candidates.

I really would like to see some effort into seeing some results. A candidate signal density map superimposed on a skymap would be a nice start, perhaps animated showing variation over time. Humans can see trends far more easily this way.
Separate maps for triplets, gaussians etc.

Being a web application developer, I'd do it myself if I had the data and the time.
ID: 501653 · Report as offensive
Profile Clyde C. Phillips, III

Send message
Joined: 2 Aug 00
Posts: 1851
Credit: 5,955,047
RAC: 0
United States
Message 501665 - Posted: 12 Jan 2007, 19:39:39 UTC

If spots in the sky show the location of data collected it might be nice to show them trailed according to angle range and direction. For normal units the "dots" would be just slightly elongated, but for very high angle range units they might look like wieners or even worms depending on the angle range and symbol size.
ID: 501665 · Report as offensive
PhonAcq

Send message
Joined: 14 Apr 01
Posts: 1656
Credit: 30,658,217
RAC: 1
United States
Message 501708 - Posted: 12 Jan 2007, 21:43:51 UTC

Frankly, this thread manifests my biggest gripe with S@H. What the HxLL are we doing? What is being accomplished? (Apart from adding entropy to the universe while heating my closet or providing Intel a forum to whoop AMD's behind in performance specs.)

At least Classic had a page indicating a sort of progress (triplets, etc.). And the lack of actual (non-computer science) scientific output has been going on for years, well after the switch to boinc.

Why doesn't the S@H community (us) hold CommandCentral to a higher standard?
May this Farce be with You
ID: 501708 · Report as offensive
SlothZ

Send message
Joined: 22 May 05
Posts: 3
Credit: 11,467
RAC: 0
United States
Message 501872 - Posted: 13 Jan 2007, 0:34:32 UTC

I appreciate hearing that some members who have put far more crunching hours than I have into seti@home agree with my view.

The core seti@home community has shown that they are willing to help this program blindly because of how much they want it's goal accomplished. Still, we could get even more people to donate time and money to the project with a results page. It would be a type of "reward system" and they work very well. It's part of the reason eight million people pay 15 dollars a month to play world of warcraft day after day... they are constantly striving to get better "prizes" (In this case armor and weapons).

Seeing results would not only attract new members who might otherwise think the project was hopeless, but it would be a way of rewarding 7 year veterans and everyone in between by showing that, while the "jackpot" hasn't been hit, ground is still being gained.

I think we all realize that the odds are pretty low of finding anything in the small area that we are viewing over the short (in galactic terms) time we've been doing so. But keeping a list of all the promising results that were found throughout the 7+ years of seti@home would be excellent for us and, in my opinion, for the seti@home staff. (unless of course there are no instances where results were promising which would be unfortunate but which I find hard to believe :P).

I think having a results page would be a HUGE factor in raising the money that seti@home needs. If people don't have to put blind faith into the notion that seti@home is making progress, they will be more likely to open thier pocketbooks. ^^

Does anyone else have any thoughts about this?
ID: 501872 · Report as offensive
Profile ohiomike
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 04
Posts: 357
Credit: 650,069
RAC: 0
United States
Message 502070 - Posted: 13 Jan 2007, 11:20:08 UTC

The lack of a "results" page was my biggest disappointment when I came back to SETI after running SETI classic. I realize they appear to be short cash from what I can gather, but giving the people donating their CPU time to the project some feeling of accomplishment should be a priority in my mind. That being said, I don't know that the "powers that be" listen to the message boards (or even pay attention).

Boinc Button Abuser In Training >My Shrubbers<
ID: 502070 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 502073 - Posted: 13 Jan 2007, 11:27:05 UTC - in response to Message 502070.  

The lack of a "results" page was my biggest disappointment when I came back to SETI after running SETI classic. I realize they appear to be short cash from what I can gather, but giving the people donating their CPU time to the project some feeling of accomplishment should be a priority in my mind. That being said, I don't know that the "powers that be" listen to the message boards (or even pay attention).

If you read the message boards thoroughly, you will have noticed that most of the time the Berkeley staff are firefighting just to keep the project afloat. And probably the service will not improve as Court left this week for more plentiful pastures. see Cafe thread 'Why I cannot Donate ....
ID: 502073 · Report as offensive
PhonAcq

Send message
Joined: 14 Apr 01
Posts: 1656
Credit: 30,658,217
RAC: 1
United States
Message 502145 - Posted: 13 Jan 2007, 14:08:57 UTC

S@H really has the feel of a project failing due to over-reaching their capabilities. It's basic economics in that if you consistently over-reach your capacity, you will ultimately fail. I also think, respectfully, that this sort of project management reflects a lack of scientific integrity.

Ok, what to do. Stop using funding limits as an excuse for no progress. It is tacky and unconvincing.

Scale back. Seems simple enough. Reduce the number of broken down servers to the few good ones. Reduce the number of outgoing WU's to a manageable number. Perhaps reduce the WU's per day per host limit. If needed, reduce the number of users permitted to receive WU's. Because of the boinc platform, the computing capacity will move to other projects. And they will come back when the project is healthy.

Second, re-prioritize. Put science first. Complete what it takes to analyze the data to date and report back to the community the status. Get the real-time analysis capability working; or, get the new detector and data algorithms working; but, MAKE SOME SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS. We users are least qualified to prioritize for you, but I think the scientific priorities need to be identified and taken seriously. Focus on a primary scientific goal, even if it means missing some future opportunity.

Third, leverage your community. There are lots of people who have a passion for this project (irrational as it appears to many). Find ways to use this brain power and sweat equity. Consider what has been done by the optimizers! (and barely embraced by CommandCentral, by the way). There has to be more ideas out there. Look to the other boinc projects for ideas.

I used to get frustrated by the apparent incompetence of this project; that's not useful. But if the user base is good for anything, it is for ideas. Hopefully you will see and take to heart a few. We are now in the 21st century and it's time to realize our potential.


May this Farce be with You
ID: 502145 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 502158 - Posted: 13 Jan 2007, 14:50:23 UTC - in response to Message 502145.  

Well said.
ID: 502158 · Report as offensive
Profile popandbob
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Mar 05
Posts: 551
Credit: 4,673,015
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 502459 - Posted: 14 Jan 2007, 0:51:01 UTC

PhonAcq,

Its easy to think something like this but you will also have to look at the number of users who would quit becuase "oh im not getting any work" or the all famous "MY RAC IS GOING DOWN"

It would drop the user base substantially and the team does not want to do that.

BoB


Do you Good Search for Seti@Home? http://www.goodsearch.com/?charityid=888957
Or Good Shop? http://www.goodshop.com/?charityid=888957
ID: 502459 · Report as offensive
PhonAcq

Send message
Joined: 14 Apr 01
Posts: 1656
Credit: 30,658,217
RAC: 1
United States
Message 502463 - Posted: 14 Jan 2007, 1:01:07 UTC

@BoB,

You miss my point. Yes we should not be afraid to drop the user base substantially until the project leaders can right the ship. I have no worry that if the number of users dropped off they would come back. If the S@H infrastructure was more stable, then everybody wins.

While the situation today is a lot better than when the boinc switch happened, it is still pretty unreliable and we aren't seeing any results of our effort, which is my second point.

-PhonAcq
May this Farce be with You
ID: 502463 · Report as offensive
Profile Pappa
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jan 00
Posts: 2562
Credit: 12,301,681
RAC: 0
United States
Message 502578 - Posted: 14 Jan 2007, 5:56:55 UTC - in response to Message 502463.  

Phoneacq

I remember a while back when outages were days, not hours... I remember the credit wars... the hate wars... where we are right is beyond that. As most of the hardware is aging and having issues... Einstein is having issues and they just replaced a "new server," they currently are up and down more than Seti... The best part is most of the current outages are not something that would seriously hamper Seti.

The Seti Staff is looking at what has been said Here! Eric and others have made posts, to not give them a chance is unfair! Eric should be forth coming with more information shortly...

Many have posted many "postive" ideas! Seti Users can make a difference!

Regards

Pappa

@BoB,

You miss my point. Yes we should not be afraid to drop the user base substantially until the project leaders can right the ship. I have no worry that if the number of users dropped off they would come back. If the S@H infrastructure was more stable, then everybody wins.

While the situation today is a lot better than when the boinc switch happened, it is still pretty unreliable and we aren't seeing any results of our effort, which is my second point.

-PhonAcq


Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

ID: 502578 · Report as offensive
PhonAcq

Send message
Joined: 14 Apr 01
Posts: 1656
Credit: 30,658,217
RAC: 1
United States
Message 502690 - Posted: 14 Jan 2007, 14:05:33 UTC

@Poppa,

I don't disagree with what you are saying. But, since you bring it up, look at Einstein. They do post progress information in various forms; they are explicitly concerned about the scientific progress (keyword explicit); and they have habitually informed the users about their scientific progress all along (that I remember). Yes, their system experiences difficulties, too; but I suspect their system is more complex than S@H given the several sites who are participating together and the larger number of people involved. But I also don't observe a steady mantra that they are understaffed, overcommitted, and so forth. (I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Every healthy organization I've been part of has those feelings, but they don't get in the way of meaningful accomplishments.)


Yet, I'm not interested in comparing boinc projects, because the boundary conditions are very different. What I am saying is that S@H should prioritize science, stabilize and 'perfect' the platform, and don't be afraid to scale back to meet the priorities. "Slow down to speed up." The active users may need to crunch other projects for awhile, but I'm sure they will come back doubly if the project were more interesting (see below posts).

-PhonAcq
May this Farce be with You
ID: 502690 · Report as offensive
Profile Mac-Nic
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 00
Posts: 165
Credit: 551,008
RAC: 0
Belgium
Message 503090 - Posted: 14 Jan 2007, 23:27:39 UTC

If one want to keep track of the results he/she can always use SetiMap View together with BoincLOgX or another tool which create cvs files.

ID: 503090 · Report as offensive
Profile Graeme of Boinc UK

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 02
Posts: 114
Credit: 1,250,273
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 503106 - Posted: 14 Jan 2007, 23:56:02 UTC
Last modified: 15 Jan 2007, 0:07:24 UTC

Do you really believe that the governments of this world would allow this project's results to become that public?

I do not, no matter what these hard working scientists do with all due respect to them and their dedication to this project, believe that if some "intelligent" signal is found, then a "procedure" will "kick in", the Whitehouse then will decide what way this will be declared to the world (if at all) and we will probably be the last one's to know.

The "Men in Black" will step in when something of interest comes to the fore.

Am I the only one to be sceptical in this forum ?

I would like to believe that the opposite actions would occur in this event but sadly I somehow suspect that should an intelligent signal be detected then Seti@Home would go offline to us and the American government would then step in, give the project the best "Supercomputer" of the day and we would no longer hear anything more of the first and best distributed computing project that has come up with the most ingenious science based project ever released upon the internet.

This does not detract from the fact that I believe in this project and shall continue to process work from Seti@Home.

Your views on this would be most welcome.

Kind Regards,
Graeme Murphy.

www.boincuk.com




ID: 503106 · Report as offensive
Profile Pappa
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jan 00
Posts: 2562
Credit: 12,301,681
RAC: 0
United States
Message 503229 - Posted: 15 Jan 2007, 4:38:59 UTC - in response to Message 502690.  
Last modified: 15 Jan 2007, 4:39:47 UTC

PhonAcq

I recommended something(s) that might start things moving in that direction. Eric working on information on what might be outsourced for the full analysis package... If I look at what was said by Seti Staff about two years ago. Over time there has been a new change in communications and they are a lot more open and informative. I guess what I am trying to say, is that as "we" identify problems they are being looked at. So peoples "ideas" are important, a lot of things are being looked. They are coming from behind, hopefully "we" can help them on the road...

I hope that kryten's issues do not slow things too much.

@Poppa,

I don't disagree with what you are saying. But, since you bring it up, look at Einstein. They do post progress information in various forms; they are explicitly concerned about the scientific progress (keyword explicit); and they have habitually informed the users about their scientific progress all along (that I remember). Yes, their system experiences difficulties, too; but I suspect their system is more complex than S@H given the several sites who are participating together and the larger number of people involved. But I also don't observe a steady mantra that they are understaffed, overcommitted, and so forth. (I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Every healthy organization I've been part of has those feelings, but they don't get in the way of meaningful accomplishments.)


Yet, I'm not interested in comparing boinc projects, because the boundary conditions are very different. What I am saying is that S@H should prioritize science, stabilize and 'perfect' the platform, and don't be afraid to scale back to meet the priorities. "Slow down to speed up." The active users may need to crunch other projects for awhile, but I'm sure they will come back doubly if the project were more interesting (see below posts).

-PhonAcq


Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

ID: 503229 · Report as offensive

Message boards : Number crunching : Highest Score for Triplets, Gaussians?


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.