Alinator,

"Just stick with a smaller "Connect to Network" setting until you get a feel for what it can do with the amount of On Time it gets. If you leave it running 24/7 you'll have zero problems getting work done on time."
Yes, I do leave my comp (Dell DIM4400) running 24/7 as I've done for the past 3 years or so...

"LOL, I'm assuming the bit about checking the MD5 Hash was the part which blew by you?"
That's a good place to start...lol

"MD5 is just one of the most commonly used algortihms for a hash function."
Great! I'll remember that for my next Trivial Pursuit game.

Alright...I'm off and running (and crunching)...
Let's see what the future has in store for me next...

Thanks again Alinator et al, I've enjoyed this little venture we've been on here, learned a lot (at least to the level of my own incompetence) and hopefully others reading this thread have gleaned some useful information also.

Telstar

---

Hi Alinator,

"...regarding your question about Account Managers, personally I think it adds an unnecessary layer of complexity...I take the view if I don't absolutely need it, it's one less thing to worry about or go wrong."
Sounds reasonable and logical Alinator, no Account Manager for me!

"I seem to recall suggesting you try to attach to another project as a test for the login failure issue, and you reported your attempt to attach to EAH failed. Is that correct, and if so have you tried it again since we got a handle on the "Double Dots"?"
You're sure that was me?
Anyway, it's worth a try and something I've been considering (hence the question re: Account Managers)...however I hesitate because I don't know if my measly 1.60GHz Pent4/768RAM should be asked to take on any more of a load...as I mentioned earlier, this is not a "muscle" machine. Also, I can't decide which project will best benefit by my participation and thus best serve mankind...but, since you mention the EAH Project, I suppose that's as good as any other...at least for this experiment.

I'm running SAH and EAH together on K6-2/500's and K6/300's with no problems, and they're a lot farther from having "muscle" than yours is. ;-)

Just stick with a smaller "Connect to Network" setting until you get a feel for what it can do with the amount of On Time it gets. If you leave it running 24/7 you'll have zero problems getting work done on time. Even if run parttime, with the default setting of 0.1 days it shouldn't be a problem.

"...BOINC still attached and ran correctly, but I did start getting the "Wrong URL" warning whenever I contacted the Project Scheduler after that. The part which bothers me now is why you weren't seeing it earlier as well, since I got it from both 5.2.13 and 5.4.11."
I seem to recall that I've "always" received those red warnings, even in 5.2.13...just didn't know what to do about them (like post a thread in this Forum...lol) and mentioning them in this thread was almost an afterthought...like "oh and btw, what about these red messages I'm getting?".

AHHH..... That's the missing element and now the puzzle starts to make sense. :-)

"So I hope that puts what I've found so far in better context with what you have been observing."
You've been a great help Alinator, though I must admit some of what you've explained goes over my head, being that I am to a certain degree..."technically challenged", I do understand how our machines and programs are far from perfect and sometimes require human intervention in order to perform to an expected performance level.

I'll look into adding another Project (as an experiment) to see if the same thing happens when I try to open an account...you may not have seen the last of me yet..lol.

Thanks again,

Telstar

LOL, I'm assuming the bit about checking the MD5 Hash was the part which blew by you?

It sounds like Black Art voodoo, but really is quite simple in concept. A "hash" provides a means of generating unique "signature" for a file. MD5 is just one of the most commonly used algortihms for a hash function. So basically it boils down to running your copy of a file through the hash function and comparing the result to a "master" reference result. If the results are the same the files must be the same, that's why it would be nice if Berkeley posted them for the installers.

The beauty of good hash functions is they are one way and cryptographically strong. This means you can't regenerate the original file by "turning the crank backwards" on the hash result, and it's virtually impossible to "fake" or tamper with a file and get the same hash result out. That's why they're so useful in a variety of security and authentication applications.

<edit> Come to think of it HashClash is one of the BOINC projects who's whole purpose is to explore weaknesses in MD5. In this case they are looking "collisions" which would be two different inputs which give the same hash output.

Alinator

Ok, you guys ready for this?

I am now attached to the SAH AND EAH Projects.

But, before the connection was made I followed these steps:

1) Following the instructions at the BOINC Manager I went to:

Tools
* Attach to project: enroll this computer in a project.
You will be asked to enter the project's URL and your email address and password.

2) When prompted, I entered the EAH url: http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/
my email address and password.

Then I received:
"Failed to attach to Project"



3) I went to messages and could see that the SAH project had "paused"...which it does when the "user (me) is active".

Note that in my Preferences/Processor Usage I have it set:
Do work only after computer is idle for 4 minutes

I figured this might be the reason, and sure enough after watching the maximized Messages window for the 4 minutes, activity started and the Messages indicated that the EAH project had attached.

Here's a pic of the Messages to this point (albeit, paused)...



Looks like all went well without a hitch (except for the Failure to attach issue, but we now know what happened there).

I'll be trying to educate myself as far as new Preferences, etc. and let both Projects run for a while and see how it goes...but, this is the status to this point.

Telstar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John McLeod VII wrote:

If you have a large number of machines, I can see having an account manager as useful. One place to go to quickly add a new project to say a thousand machines (as opposed to having to go to each machine).

Just saw your post John.
Nope, just the one machine here so looks like I can get by without the Account Manager's help.

Regards,
Telstar

---

If you have a large number of machines, I can see having an account manager as useful. One place to go to quickly add a new project to say a thousand machines (as opposed to having to go to each machine).

---

BOINC WIKI

Hi Alinator,

"...regarding your question about Account Managers, personally I think it adds an unnecessary layer of complexity...I take the view if I don't absolutely need it, it's one less thing to worry about or go wrong."
Sounds reasonable and logical Alinator, no Account Manager for me!

"I seem to recall suggesting you try to attach to another project as a test for the login failure issue, and you reported your attempt to attach to EAH failed. Is that correct, and if so have you tried it again since we got a handle on the "Double Dots"?"
You're sure that was me?
Anyway, it's worth a try and something I've been considering (hence the question re: Account Managers)...however I hesitate because I don't know if my measly 1.60GHz Pent4/768RAM should be asked to take on any more of a load...as I mentioned earlier, this is not a "muscle" machine. Also, I can't decide which project will best benefit by my participation and thus best serve mankind...but, since you mention the EAH Project, I suppose that's as good as any other...at least for this experiment.

"...BOINC still attached and ran correctly, but I did start getting the "Wrong URL" warning whenever I contacted the Project Scheduler after that. The part which bothers me now is why you weren't seeing it earlier as well, since I got it from both 5.2.13 and 5.4.11."
I seem to recall that I've "always" received those red warnings, even in 5.2.13...just didn't know what to do about them (like post a thread in this Forum...lol) and mentioning them in this thread was almost an afterthought...like "oh and btw, what about these red messages I'm getting?".

"So I hope that puts what I've found so far in better context with what you have been observing."
You've been a great help Alinator, though I must admit some of what you've explained goes over my head, being that I am to a certain degree..."technically challenged", I do understand how our machines and programs are far from perfect and sometimes require human intervention in order to perform to an expected performance level.

I'll look into adding another Project (as an experiment) to see if the same thing happens when I try to open an account...you may not have seen the last of me yet..lol.

Thanks again,

Telstar

---

I was tired when I wrote Update 2, and looking at it again it didn't quite come out the way I wanted. ;-)

Anyway, regarding your question about Account Managers, personally I think think it adds an unnecessary layer of complexity to the BOINC framework even though it might seem easier to some users. By this I mean if a problem occurs was it the fault of BOINC itself, or the account manager. The other thing about them I don't like is by definition it means another party (other than the projects themselves) is able to control the BOINC configuration of your host. This isn't to say the folks running them currently are not reputable, but of course it's up to the individual to decide how they feel about that. For me I take the view if I don't absolutely need it, it's one less thing to worry about or go wrong.

OK, back to the matter at hand.

I seem to recall suggesting you try to attach to another project as a test for the login failure issue, and you reported your attempt to attach to EAH failed. Is that correct, and if so have you tried it again since we got a handle on the "Double Dots"?

If it's still failing, then this would indicate a problem with the BOINC installation, rather than a server side issue. As I said in Update 2, none of the files in the BOINC folder should effect this, it's solely dependant on the credentials you supply in the dialog. So for a new account it should login no matter what.

The only other thing I can think of to try is if it fails the first time, try it again with ZA off just to make sure something weird isn't happening when BOINC tries to get out to the project. Assuming it fails again, that leaves something faulty in the installation as the only explanation.

For reference here's the MD5 hash for my copy of the 5.4.11 installer:

# MD5 checksums generated by MD5summer (http://www.md5summer.org)
# Generated 12/11/2006 1:46:57 PM

56d4ce0f821284bee56c7c9a619f4dce *boinc_5.4.11_windows_intelx86.exe

FWIW, I don't know why Berkeley doesn't provide the hash on the DL page for reference, but they don't. If you don't have a hashing utility you can get MD5Summer at the link above, and could eliminate a possible bad DL of BOINC as the problem. This would seem unlikely though, since one would think the installer should fail when it tries to verify the contents. But who knows, stranger things are known to happen in Windows. ;-)

Regarding the "Double Dots":

I didn't mean to imply the typo occurred during the problems you have been experiencing now. If you go back to the picture of the directory listing you posted earlier note the date of 9/11/06 for the file:

master_setiathome.berkeley.edu..xml

Testing indicated this file is created at the time you first attach to a project and is one of the xmls (along with the stats, the last sched_request, and sched_reply ones) that survives a reset or detach. The only xml I found which gets deleted when detaching is the account_* one. This would seem to indicate the DD appearance occured long before the upgrade problems started.

I also found that BOINC builds this filename from what you enter as the URL for the project when you attach by adding the "master_" and ".xml". When I deliberately entered the URL with an extra period at the end, the project server didn't do anything to correct or warn about that and I got the exact same collection of DD SAH files you did. However BOINC still attached and ran correctly, but I did start getting the "Wrong URL" warning whenever I contacted the Project Scheduler after that. The part which bothers me now is why you weren't seeing it earlier as well, since I got it from both 5.2.13 and 5.4.11.

So I hope that puts what I've found so far in better context with what you have been observing. :-)

Alinator

Actually, for an upgrade, you should be able to just install over the top of the current installation. No file migration involved when you do that.

Hello John, yes..actually that's what I did when I went from v5.2.13 to v5.4.11.

In fact, here's the Thread started by Ageless that I read before starting the upgrade:
BOINC 5.4.11 is released

and followed the advice to:

Aurora Borealis wrote:

All you need do is exit Boinc (just to be safe) and install to the same folder. Your work should restart at the same place it left off.
The more paranoid among us might uninstall Boinc and make a back up copy of the entire Boinc folder which normally is located at C:\\Program Files\\BOINC before installing a new version.

It was then, upon be prompted for (and having them subsequently rejected) my Password/email, that my woes began.

I'm pretty sure it was Aurora's suggestion to make "back up" copies that caused me to back up those XML files.

Telstar

John, what is your opinion regarding my question about choosing between the two Account Managers if I decide to add additional Projects for crunching?

And, about when could the next BOINC upgrade be available?

Telstar :)

---

.
Alinator,
thanks for taking the time to do your troubleshooting...

"In reviewing your early attempt, the reason you worked around the problem was by copying your old state files to the new installation as far as the project was concerned the host was already attached, therefore the login problem was bypassed.'
Yes, I did feel as if I were "circumventing" the procedure by copying those files into the new BOINC...but, of course, it was the only thing that ultimately worked.

"From the testing I've done so far, the most likely explanation for the duplicate file issue is as simple as a typo from adding the extra period after "edu" when attaching the host at some point."
"typo" usually implies a human error..but of course that wouldn't be the case here since I didn't modify those files myself...perhaps some kind of glitch?

"The only thing I can think of was there was transient server side issue during the time you were doing this."
Anything's possible, but considering the long period of time I was getting the Password/email rejected, this is not very likely...unless those "transient server side issues" typically can go on for an extended period of time.

"I think the subsequent errors and warnings you saw were due to us "poking" around trying to figure out what was going on."
Sure, we were trying many "unorthodox" methods in trying to find a solution or explaination, no doubt BOINC couldn't figure out what the heck was going on...lol.

"In any event, the fix is/was to find which are the duplicates and get rid of them manually, detach from all instances as BOINC suggests, or just start "clean"."
My conclusion regarding the double-periods (seeing that this occurred on the "older" files that I copied from the original BOINC) was that "anytime" a user copies files from an old Rev. into a new Rev. that both files are maintained in the BOINC Directory (rather than just the info contained in the XML's being transferred into the new XML and then the older XML deleted as I thought was the case) and that the ".." (double-dots) are automatically created to differentiate the two files.
Just my amateurish guess.

OK, here's the thing.
Whenever BOINC comes out with their next upgrade and it's time for me to go through the procedure once more, it will be interesting to see just how "smooth" (or NOT) the transition will be...will I have the same issues with my Password/email being rejected?
Only time will tell.
One thing I've learned though...if I do have to copy the files from my BOINC v5.4.11 into the next upgrade to get my Password/email accepted, I'll know to remove those with the double-dots.
btw...you say: "...copying your old state files"
Is it ONLY the "state files" (e.g. client_state.xml, client_state_prev.xml) that I'll need to transfer (rather than the whole lot of XML's)?

Alinator, once more...a big THANK YOU!
For now, my BOINC and SAH are chugging along, not a red alert in sight.

btw...I wanted to ask you...
If I decide to add more Projects and want to get one of those two "Account Managers":

The BOINCStats Account Manager
Grid Republic

Do I really need one?
Which would you recommend?

Regards,

Telstar

Actually, for an upgrade, you should be able to just install over the top of the current installation. No file migration involved when you do that.

---

BOINC WIKI

.
Alinator,
thanks for taking the time to do your troubleshooting...

"In reviewing your early attempt, the reason you worked around the problem was by copying your old state files to the new installation as far as the project was concerned the host was already attached, therefore the login problem was bypassed.'
Yes, I did feel as if I were "circumventing" the procedure by copying those files into the new BOINC...but, of course, it was the only thing that ultimately worked.

"From the testing I've done so far, the most likely explanation for the duplicate file issue is as simple as a typo from adding the extra period after "edu" when attaching the host at some point."
"typo" usually implies a human error..but of course that wouldn't be the case here since I didn't modify those files myself...perhaps some kind of glitch?

"The only thing I can think of was there was transient server side issue during the time you were doing this."
Anything's possible, but considering the long period of time I was getting the Password/email rejected, this is not very likely...unless those "transient server side issues" typically can go on for an extended period of time.

"I think the subsequent errors and warnings you saw were due to us "poking" around trying to figure out what was going on."
Sure, we were trying many "unorthodox" methods in trying to find a solution or explaination, no doubt BOINC couldn't figure out what the heck was going on...lol.

"In any event, the fix is/was to find which are the duplicates and get rid of them manually, detach from all instances as BOINC suggests, or just start "clean"."
My conclusion regarding the double-periods (seeing that this occurred on the "older" files that I copied from the original BOINC) was that "anytime" a user copies files from an old Rev. into a new Rev. that both files are maintained in the BOINC Directory (rather than just the info contained in the XML's being transferred into the new XML and then the older XML deleted as I thought was the case) and that the ".." (double-dots) are automatically created to differentiate the two files.
Just my amateurish guess.

OK, here's the thing.
Whenever BOINC comes out with their next upgrade and it's time for me to go through the procedure once more, it will be interesting to see just how "smooth" (or NOT) the transition will be...will I have the same issues with my Password/email being rejected?
Only time will tell.
One thing I've learned though...if I do have to copy the files from my BOINC v5.4.11 into the next upgrade to get my Password/email accepted, I'll know to remove those with the double-dots.
btw...you say: "...copying your old state files"
Is it ONLY the "state files" (e.g. client_state.xml, client_state_prev.xml) that I'll need to transfer (rather than the whole lot of XML's)?

Alinator, once more...a big THANK YOU!
For now, my BOINC and SAH are chugging along, not a red alert in sight.

btw...I wanted to ask you...
If I decide to add more Projects and want to get one of those two "Account Managers":

The BOINCStats Account Manager
Grid Republic

Do I really need one?
Which would you recommend?

Regards,

Telstar

---

Update 2:

I've been banging away on my test account and BOINC installation for a couple of days now:

1.) I haven't been able to duplicate the Login failure when attaching. AFAICT, nothing in the BOINC folder has any bearing on whether it will login at attach time. It's solely dependant on entering the correct credentials in the dialog box. In reviewing your early attempt, the reason you worked around the problem was by copying your old state files to the new installation as far as the project was concerned the host was already attached, therefore the login problem was bypassed. The only thing I can think of was there was transient server side issue during the time you were doing this.

2.) From the testing I've done so far, the most likely explanation for the duplicate file issue is as simple as a typo from adding the extra period after "edu" when attaching the host at some point. It looks like it could have even been from the original (previous) attachment before your problem this time, since BOINC will carry over some of the xml files, even on project resets, detach cycles, or install over upgrades.

I had one case where BOINC was showing SAH twice on the Project Tab, but listed under the same Host ID on my Account Summary. ;-)

I think the subsequent errors and warnings you saw were due to us "poking" around trying to figure out what was going on. :-)

In any event, the fix is/was to find which are the duplicates and get rid of them manually, detach from all instances as BOINC suggests, or just start "clean". The project side handled the "confusion" without an issue.

Alinator

Alinator wrote:

I've got a customer who has well and truly hosed their machine with what looks
like a nasty BHO, but is currently resisting all "normal" efforts to get rid it.

Wouldn't happen to be any of these would it?

Trojan Horse Generic 2.ISQ
Trojan.W32.ZLOB
YazzleSudoku (Yazzle.Clickspring)
Smitfraud-C.
shost.exe
ismini.exe
Smitfraud-C.Toolbar888
ADWARE.SOFTOMATE

As you well know I'm sure, that Smitfraud thing is making the rounds and after being virus/malware free for about two years, clicked on a Google-found site looking for a program download and got infected (I know "exactly" where I got it).

I'm clean now but, a couple of weeks ago, it took about three days working with a Moderator at another "Tech" Forum, many fixes and HijackThis logfiles to finally get me clean.

Anything I can do to help?

Telstar

---

Well, that's progress! :-)

I've got a customer who has well and truly hosed their machine with what looks like a nasty BHO, but is currently resisting all "normal" efforts to get rid it.

When it comes to malware there's nothing I like better than a challenge, so I swapped them a "loaner" and am in the process of tracking down the little bugger. :-)

Unfortunately, this will slow down experimenting with this issue a bit, but the paying customers have to come first (I hate when that happens). ;-)

Alinator

Alinator wrote:

OK, here's an update:
In reality it had attached, DL'ed the project app files and a result, and was crunching away properly. So apparently there's a minor bug in project attach routines, but in and of itself shouldn't cause the problem we saw here on the initial install.
At this point, I'm going to review the thread thoroughly , do some more research, and think about how best to proceed testing with an already established host.

Ok Alinator, I'm fascinated.
I've been looking through other Thread topics and haven't found anyone else with a similar problem so, fortunately it seems it's not a widespread epidemic...but, a glitch somewhere nonetheless.

All still seems good to go on my end...having seen NO red lines or warnings whatsoever since early yesterday...I'm "crunching away" on my little SAH project.

Keep up the good work,

Telstar

---

OK, here's an update:

I created a new "testing" User account for myself (been thinking about doing that for awhile anyway), just to be certain nothing in my current account would effect the outcome.

I installed BOINC 5.4.11 in a fresh, empty partition on W2K SP4.

In going through the initial attach procedure, when I got to the last dialog where BOINC is contacting the project servers, it stalled for a bit then came back and said it had failed to attach. In reality it had attached, DL'ed the project app files and a result, and was crunching away properly. So apparently there's a minor bug in project attach routines, but in and of itself shouldn't cause the problem we saw here on the initial install.

At this point, I'm going to review the thread thoroughly , do some more research, and think about how best to proceed testing with an already established host.

Alinator

No problemo, that's what we're here for!

FWIW, I'm going to let the host I have running down the cache do that (4 or 5 hours to go), then revert it to 5.4.11 (I'm testing 5.7x's on it) and see if I can duplicate the trouble you've been having attaching.

Will post back with findings on that, and I usually cruise through my project forums once a day at least, so I'll keep my eye out. :-)

Alinator

Sounds good Alinator, I'll be checking back for your results.

Good luck!
Telstar

---

No problemo, that's what we're here for!

FWIW, I'm going to let the host I have running down the cache do that (4 or 5 hours to go), then revert it to 5.4.11 (I'm testing 5.7.x's on it) and see if I can duplicate the trouble you've been having attaching.

Will post back with findings on that, and I usually cruise through my project forums once a day at least. So I'll keep my eye out. :-)

Alinator

Ok, no problem logging back in using Firefox.

Although, that's not the same as logging in when prompted by the BOINC installation (after the upgrade to v5.4.11) to attach the SAH project.

Telstar's earlier post wrote:

I did a clean uninstall of BOINC, reinstalled it and during the setup,
when prompted for the Project's URL (http://setiathome.berkeley.edu)..I entered it...
when prompted for the email address I used...I entered it
when prompted for the password I used...I entered it

I tried both No, New User and Yes, Existing User and with each I get:

Login Failed
Check the email address and password, and try again

Let me think about this one.

Alinator, except for the Login question I think you folks have me fixed up pretty good here...time will tell if there's anything else.

If you have any more suggestions or things you want me to try, I'll be checking back here for any new posts.

And again, I thank all of you very much!

Telstar

---

Only thing that pops to mind about the login is did you clear out your cookies lately?
If so going through the login page should fix that, if I'm reading this right.
Just make sure you use the same credentials as before. I have inadvertently cleared my cookies and had to login again to get a new one set.
Alinator
<edit> That's normal, the web page doesn't give you any hint if there's a PW set or not, like many "things" do. ;-)

Ok Alinator, here's the plan:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Action A:

->open Internet Explorer and login...
DONE: I opened IE7 and, sure enough, I was presented with this login page:



I logged in...using my correct credentials.
I was taken immediately to: Logged-in>My Account...no problem.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Action B:

->Log out of "My Account" in Firefox
->Reboot, just to be sure.
->Attempt to log back in to "My Account" and see what happens.

Here I go, back in a few!

Telstar

---

Only thing that pops to mind about the login is did you clear out your cookies lately?

If so going through the login page should fix that, if I'm reading this right.

Just make sure you use the same credentials as before. I have inadvertently cleared my cookies and had to login again to get a new one set.

Also, I have changed my PW on the web page before, and that didn't result in any of my hosts getting cut-off, but I haven't done that in awhile.

Alinator

<edit> That's normal, the web page doesn't give you any hint if there's a PW set or not, like many "things" do. ;-)

OK, well it looks like the warning about duplicate files when starting cold has been taken care of.
Also in the second snapshot, it say the prefs were modified last on 12/6/2006 at 11:02:58.
Does that correspond to the last modified time on your General Prefs page?
Alinator

Yep, that time sounds about right (though I didn't check the exact time)...
those are "local" times of course (PST - minus 8 hours UTC/GMT)

Regarding the login problem...
I use Firefox and have it set to Automatically log me in to secure sites requiring Passwords (Password Manager) but I'm thinking...what if I go to "Your Account", log out and then try and log back in?

It might log me in automatically again OR might ask me for my Password and email.
Plan B, I could try doing that in IE7.

**My apprehension of course would be that if my Password and email were once again rejected...the only way I fixed it the last time was by copying those XML files from the old revision's directory into the new revision's directory...and I don't think we want to go through that again...lol

Thoughts?

Telstar
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
WAIT! Just noticed something!

I just went to Your Account>change>email address
and my email address was correct

Then I went to Your Account>change>password
and there was NO password showing (box was empty)
Turns out this might be how it acts normally because clicking on "password" is for "Change password" activity, so nothing shows anyway.

I entered my password and the change password button and exited.

But, now I just went back (after Refreshing the page) and clicked on My Account>password and it still came up with the empty box not showing anything at all.

I wonder if this action might have fixed the problem?

---