Dorkley, if you're trying to say something, the message is entirely incoherent. Something about a garbage truck when I'm presenting facts for you??
You want to argue that taking or protecting your territory is not at the root of every war??

Schmuck I might actually be, but that's far more desirable than being a babbling airhead.

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

THAT I have to see ... Just for the fun of it ... consider your teeth and that thing round it severely smacked ...
oops! sorry ... you were just in the way sucker !

Not to brawl (we have enough issues to do that elsewhere some day), but simply to join issue...

This crying, gnashing of teeth, complaining and shouting in outrage, falls short of being any kind of solution to the problem. It's easy to complain, it's much harder to solve.

---

The definition of murder is slightly broader than previously stated, at least in most countries. If X is committing a crime with lethal force, for example armed robbery, and the victim or a bystander is killed because the original crime "went sour," then X can be found guilty of murder.

Israel's critics point vaguely in the direction of the Geneva Conventions or some nebulous "international law" that they believe makes it a crime to accidentally kill a civilian during a war.

Not only do the Geneva Conventions not say this, Protocol I (8 June 1977) says:

3. In order to promote the protection of the civilian population from the effects of hostilities, combatants are obliged to distinguish themselves from the civilian population while they are engaged in an attack or in a military operation preparatory to an attack. Recognizing, however, that there are situations in armed conflicts where, owing to the nature of the hostilities an armed combatant cannot so distinguish himself, he shall retain his status as a combatant, provided that, in such situations, he carries his arms openly:

(a) during each military engagement, and (b) during such time as he is visible to the adversary while he is engaged in a military deployment preceding the launching of an attack in which he is to participate.

The intent of this article to is to handle the case where a citizen militia needs to engage in combat before uniforms can be procured and distributed (such as defending their own town).

Hezbollah is going out its way to be not visible during deployments and engagements. That makes Hezbollah's actions war crimes. These war crimes are getting civilians killed. By the logic in the first paragraph, it can be said that Hezbollah is murdering the Lebanese civilians.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

There has been so much clap-trap and obfuscation in this thread, that THIS has to be said:

ANY Army, ANYWHERE which invades another Country with the intention of "limiting civilian casualties" is
in for a beating. It should NOT have started the War!
It is tantamount to tying the hands of the Army behind its back.
IF I were to read here that "Civilian Casualties are regretted" ... that is another thing.
But PLEASE do not give me that MEGA Horse Puckey about an Army being able to fight a MAJOR battle
around "Limiting Civilian Casualties.
If this IS the case, then the Jews should not have started the War in the first place.
You people are something! You have NO idea what fighting a War is about (with a few notable exceptions)
yet you feel qualified to pontificate with total sh*t!!!

RULE 1 of going to War: THERE WILL BE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. (more so when Israel or its puppet State
America is involved).
It is a fact of life. Live with it ...

What's the big deal about civilian casulaties? It's being used as a justification by either side? The bigger army claims the smaller army goes after civilians, but they will try not to do the same in going after the smaller army, and the smaller army has no choice BUT to go after civilians because they can't take on the bigger army face on???

So??? What does anyone expect? Who cares what side is using this or that justification? Since when does even one life equal a parcel of land???

But we know how the world works, and how the masses don't care about anyone else, so long as they have their own: since when do people actually give a shit if 95% of the other guy's population gets wiped off the face of the Earth? YOU get their land!!!! YOU wipe out the threat! It's good math! Who gives a shit about the enemy? They're your ENEMY! Kill them! There were orders to take no prisoners in WW2. They did it right.


All I ever see from the middle east is hatred of each other. That's all the people from over there seem to know how to do. I gave up long ago being let down every time there was war. It's no wonder intelligent life hasn't contacted us. They're bound to be patiently waiting to see if we grow out of this stupidity. If not, let them take the peaceful off, and nuke the rest, dammit.

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

What's the big deal about civilian casulaties? It's being used as a justification by either side? The bigger army claims the smaller army goes after civilians, but they will try not to do the same in going after the smaller army, and the smaller army has no choice BUT to go after civilians because they can't take on the bigger army face on???

So??? What does anyone expect? Who cares what side is using this or that justification? Since when does even one life equal a parcel of land???

But we know how the world works, and how the masses don't care about anyone else, so long as they have their own: since when do people actually give a shit if 95% of the other guy's population gets wiped off the face of the Earth? YOU get their land!!!! YOU wipe out the threat! It's good math! Who gives a shit about the enemy? They're your ENEMY! Kill them! There were orders to take no prisoners in WW2. They did it right.


All I ever see from the middle east is hatred of each other......

and your post is so full of love.

---

Reality Internet Personality

What's the big deal about civilian casulaties? It's being used as a justification by either side? The bigger army claims the smaller army goes after civilians, but they will try not to do the same in going after the smaller army, and the smaller army has no choice BUT to go after civilians because they can't take on the bigger army face on???

So??? What does anyone expect? Who cares what side is using this or that justification? Since when does even one life equal a parcel of land???

But we know how the world works, and how the masses don't care about anyone else, so long as they have their own: since when do people actually give a shit if 95% of the other guy's population gets wiped off the face of the Earth? YOU get their land!!!! YOU wipe out the threat! It's good math! Who gives a shit about the enemy? They're your ENEMY! Kill them! There were orders to take no prisoners in WW2. They did it right.

What you are describing is not warfare, but genocide. Genocide does occur, and the United Nations has proven itself quite incapable of preventing it. The UN's not even particularly good at slowing it down.

Warfare, in this context, is violently enforcing changes on an enemy short of the total extinction of that enemy's population.

Israel is conducting a war upon Hezbollah in land that in nominally Lebanese. Hezbollah is attempting to conduct genocide upon Israel (and Jewish people in general).

I find it mind-boggling that people will condemn Israel for prosecuting a less than 100% perfect war while remaining silent on Hezbollah attempting to commit genocide. This isn't a double-standard of a "big army" and a "small army." This is world leaders tacitly approving of an attempt to erase the Jewish people from the face of the Earth.

All I ever see from the middle east is hatred of each other. That's all the people from over there seem to know how to do. I gave up long ago being let down every time there was war. It's no wonder intelligent life hasn't contacted us. They're bound to be patiently waiting to see if we grow out of this stupidity. If not, let them take the peaceful off, and nuke the rest, dammit.

As long as no one is allowed to "win" there will be no resolution to that conflict. Israel demonstrated to its neighboring countries that the cost of waging war on Israel was too high, and Israel won a de facto peace between itself and the nations bordering it. This hasn't prevented subnational groups from trying, but at least it demonstrated progress toward peace. Israel needs to be allowed to demonstrate that subnational groups can't attack a state (whether it be Israel or anyone else) and expect the internation community to protect them from the consequences of their actions.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

RULE 1 of going to War: THERE WILL BE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. (more so when Israel or its puppet State
America is involved).
It is a fact of life. Live with it ...

LOL Talk about Over-the-Top rhetoric and rabid anti-semitism! So, the United States of America is a "puppet State" of Israel, hmmn?

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

---

The UN' Human Rights Council is going to investigate Israel for possible international law violations during its offensive in Lebanon.

And no mention of Hezbollah's actions!

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

The UN' Human Rights Council is going to investigate Israel for possible international law violations during its offensive in Lebanon.

And no mention of Hezbollah's actions!

Thats right. You can only prosecute under laws if there are generally common laws to prosecute under. You can't convince someone (or party/nation) that they are breaking the law if they have none.

Case in point: Hezbollas only "law" is to eliminate the Jewish state/people from the earth. Since they have not "broken" that law, they are guilty of nothing.

RULE 1 of going to War: THERE WILL BE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. (more so when Israel or its puppet State
America is involved).
It is a fact of life. Live with it ...

LOL Talk about Over-the-Top rhetoric and rabid anti-semitism! So, the United States of America is a "puppet State" of Israel, hmmn?
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

You are on very dangerous ground when accusing me of anti-semitism. This is the refuge of the man who
has run out of argument. To criticise Israel is in NO way to be accused of anti-semitism.
Except, obviously, by the low life scum of this World who cannot frame a proper argument as to why the original statement was made in the first place.

The UN' Human Rights Council is going to investigate Israel for possible international law violations during its offensive in Lebanon.

And no mention of Hezbollah's actions!

Thats right. You can only prosecute under laws if there are generally common laws to prosecute under. You can't convince someone (or party/nation) that they are breaking the law if they have none.

Case in point: Hezbollas only "law" is to eliminate the Jewish state/people from the earth. Since they have not "broken" that law, they are guilty of nothing.

Israel isn't being prosecuted under Israeli laws... I'm not sure what enforcement powers the Human Rights Council has, but it would be supposedly comparing Israel's actions against the treaties Israel signed.

Lebanon has signed a number of human rights treaties itself, and Hezbollah falls under anything Lebanon signed... at least until Hezbollah declares itself an independant country.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

The UN' Human Rights Council is going to investigate Israel for possible international law violations during its offensive in Lebanon.
And no mention of Hezbollah's actions!

Thats right. You can only prosecute under laws if there are generally common laws to prosecute under. You can't convince someone (or party/nation) that they are breaking the law if they have none.
Case in point: Hezbollas only "law" is to eliminate the Jewish state/people from the earth. Since they have not "broken" that law, they are guilty of nothing.

Israel isn't being prosecuted under Israeli laws... I'm not sure what enforcement powers the Human Rights Council has, but it would be supposedly comparing Israel's actions against the treaties Israel signed.
Lebanon has signed a number of human rights treaties itself, and Hezbollah falls under anything Lebanon signed... at least until Hezbollah declares itself an independant country.

Is not Hezbollah also a Political Party with seats in the Lebanese Parliament? (I may be wrong here).
But if they are and if they DO hold seats there ... then they hold exactly the same position that the IRA and Sinn Fein
held in the Irish and Northern Irish Parliaments.
But Britain did not bomb the holy sh*t ot of Ireland - at ANY time during the troubles.
America DID, however allow Sinn Fein and the IRA to make several fund-raising trips to America. The
funds from these trips bought arms, etc ... and also the (at the time unknown) Semtex that was used to
blow up innocent horses and ceremonial troops in Hyde Park.
I think the situation is as complicated as the prostitute shouting "Rape".

Is not Hezbollah also a Political Party with seats in the Lebanese Parliament? (I may be wrong here).
But if they are and if they DO hold seats there ... then they hold exactly the same position that the IRA and Sinn Fein
held in the Irish and Northern Irish Parliaments.
But Britain did not bomb the holy sh*t ot of Ireland - at ANY time during the troubles.
America DID, however allow Sinn Fein and the IRA to make several fund-raising trips to America. The
funds from these trips bought arms, etc ... and also the (at the time unknown) Semtex that was used to
blow up innocent horses and ceremonial troops in Hyde Park.
I think the situation is as complicated as the prostitute shouting "Rape".

The IRA, while a terrorist organization, wasn't bent on killing every last Briton on the face of the Earth, nor was the IRA lobbing missiles around.

Please be aware that Ireland is a country, but Northern Ireland is a part of the UK. It wouldn't make much sense for the UK to level its own territory, nor did the UK feel it was beneficial to declare was on Ireland.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

Not to mention that although some americans may have given money to the IRA the American government did not unlike what the governments of Iran and Syria are doing with Hezbollah. Israel still has not bombed those two countries. The U.S. routinely investigated, arrested, and prosecuted those that funded the IRA when it was officially labelled a terrorist organization.

Apples vs Oranges.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Not to mention that although some americans may have given money to the IRA the American government did not unlike what the governments of Iran and Syria are doing with Hezbollah. Israel still has not bombed those two countries. The U.S. routinely investigated, arrested, and prosecuted those that funded the IRA when it was officially labelled a terrorist organization.

Apples vs Oranges.

I've got a feeling that they're working their way up to bombing Iran. My prediction is that if things keep going they way they are Isreal will strike Iran just like they did Iraq back in the 80's.

---

/Central Florida Astronomical Society

I agree, Troy. They may have to do just that because of the Iranian governments supply of personnel, weapons, and terror training to Hezbollah.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I agree, Troy. They may have to do just that because of the Iranian governments supply of personnel, weapons, and terror training to Hezbollah.

Or Iran's Nuclear Program. Thats why they went after Iraq back in the 80's. Now... they'd just have two reason to bomb Iran. The only thing of it was that they used F-16's against Iraq and that more or less took them to the max of the range on a Falcon (and beyond actully, they did a few things noy recommended int he users manual to get a few more miles) and even the updated falcons with the conformal external tanks still have a hell of a time getting there and back. But Isreal is nothing if not creative.

---

/Central Florida Astronomical Society

Closed Time to spawn!

See Middle East is in Crisis Again #2

---