Religious Thread [8] - CLOSED

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Profile Mac Girl.
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Message 418246 - Posted: 10 Sep 2006, 16:05:54 UTC - in response to Message 418241.  

Susan that is right.


I was right about those words. Good.

Susan.
'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
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Message 418275 - Posted: 10 Sep 2006, 18:02:41 UTC - in response to Message 418214.  

Es99
Well I hope it has some benefit in those people's lives too. Actually, if these experiences are just brain processes, what's the point in spending years in a monastery meditating? Or years in contemplation?
The seminar I went to a few years ago, they called it 'centering' that is finding your centre where God was supposed to dwell. Why don't I just drink a few glasses of wine? I would 'centre' beautifully in a fraction of the amount of time.(Laugh).

Sue.

Why not? Many religions in the past (and present) have used psychotropic substances to get in touch with the sacred. Some mushroom tea and a bit of drumming seems a lot easier to me than all the abstinence and self denial practiced by some religions...and a lot more fun.
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Message 418437 - Posted: 11 Sep 2006, 1:19:05 UTC - in response to Message 418243.  

Captain Avatar,
So we have to take personal responsibility for our own spiritual growth, according to Buddha? No saviour, just the individual. Right?

Sue.


Even with a Savior its still your responsability to grow. You don't just get to say 'I like Jesus' and then sit on the couch for the next 200 years.


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Message 418471 - Posted: 11 Sep 2006, 3:26:21 UTC - in response to Message 418437.  

>>>....and then sit on the couch for the next 200 years.

Troy-
I'm thinking a biblical librarian could find a reference.

Couch-200 years? hmmm

It might just be in there...cc
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Message 418496 - Posted: 11 Sep 2006, 4:08:40 UTC - in response to Message 418437.  

Captain Avatar,
So we have to take personal responsibility for our own spiritual growth, according to Buddha? No saviour, just the individual. Right?

Sue.


Even with a Savior its still your responsability to grow. You don't just get to say 'I like Jesus' and then sit on the couch for the next 200 years.

In the New Testament, James 2:26, the verse reads, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." I believe this is same concept that Capt. Avatar mentioned from the Buddhist tradition. The problem with the "few glasses of wine" method or taking the drugs is that getting drunk disconnects you from yourself. The object is to connect with yourself.

My belief is that religion and religious experiences (excluding the obvious scams, power seekers, mountebanks, etc.) tend to unify groups. Meditation and prayer tend to have positive physical effects when practiced properly. It is established that those who have done the hard work to gain the "centered" state are capable of extraordinary physical and mental feats. Anyone who has watched a Shaolin Gung Fu master can attest to that. I place this in the "obvious survival benefit" category.
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Message 418615 - Posted: 11 Sep 2006, 7:43:43 UTC

Mr Hyland,

My 'glasses of wine'joke was really just that, I decided to keep it lighthearted. I have read the book by Thomas Keating and he goes into a lot of detail. The method involves attempting to clear out the subconscious mind and slow the mind's 'traffic' down so that we can see clearly. Keating referred to it as 'the unloading of the unconscious' and our minds' traffic as 'the stream of consciousness.' Centering involved trying to clear out all the dross in our minds so we can perceive more clearly. It's a method of integration. No glasses of wine can do that, I know. lol.

Sue.
'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.
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Message 419178 - Posted: 12 Sep 2006, 3:08:10 UTC - in response to Message 418471.  

I'm thinking a biblical librarian could find a reference.

II Thessalonians 3:6-7

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us; we were not idle when we were with you...

;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 419189 - Posted: 12 Sep 2006, 3:49:08 UTC - in response to Message 419178.  

Hey Jeff-
You're gettin' there man
Couch- Idleness
Certainly you're on the right track.
Hook up 200 years with
Idleness, couch, sloth, heedlessness
Or however you read it-
And you've made another indsiputable point.

Praise be to the Bible-thumpers
May they thump
Ad Nausem.

Never give up
All you've got to lose
Is your sanity...cc
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Message 419260 - Posted: 12 Sep 2006, 7:15:31 UTC

Psalms 6:7-8

I am weary with my moaning; every night I flood my bed with tears; I drench my couch with my weeping. My eye wastes away because of grief, it grows weak because of all my foes.

;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 419617 - Posted: 13 Sep 2006, 1:47:14 UTC

your faith in your self worth
Here's an error. Not everybody has faith in their self worth. I am one who looks at the people around me that my life touches to see if I have worth to them. If I do things that helps them and not harm them, then I have self-worth. No faith in there. If I do things that harms and damages them, then what worth do I have? If I were to harm, in some measure, everyone I meet, then wouldn't I be better off dead? I see no 'faith' in there anywhere.

Science, as a tool, is the most effective tool by far in discovering the truth. Why would you need faith and hope to place yourself within that truth? Look at it scientifically, without 'faith'. Without 'hope'. Then you can see things as they truly are. You can see yourself in there, where you are, and what you can do to further your species along.

If you prefer to set up a fantasy and then follow it, making yourself the most important thing in "creation", then you hold back our species understanding of reality. Then you are an enemy of mankind. Every religious twit in here that puts forth their ideology for a being that can't be proven is holding back humanity's development.

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.
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Message 419659 - Posted: 13 Sep 2006, 3:01:21 UTC - in response to Message 419617.  
Last modified: 13 Sep 2006, 3:03:41 UTC

wouldn't I be better off dead?

Is this a trick question? ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 419669 - Posted: 13 Sep 2006, 3:16:14 UTC - in response to Message 419617.  

your faith in your self worth
Here's an error. Not everybody has faith in their self worth. I am one who looks at the people around me that my life touches to see if I have worth to them. If I do things that helps them and not harm them, then I have self-worth. No faith in there. If I do things that harms and damages them, then what worth do I have? If I were to harm, in some measure, everyone I meet, then wouldn't I be better off dead? I see no 'faith' in there anywhere.

Science, as a tool, is the most effective tool by far in discovering the truth. Why would you need faith and hope to place yourself within that truth? Look at it scientifically, without 'faith'. Without 'hope'. Then you can see things as they truly are. You can see yourself in there, where you are, and what you can do to further your species along.

If you prefer to set up a fantasy and then follow it, making yourself the most important thing in "creation", then you hold back our species understanding of reality. Then you are an enemy of mankind. Every religious twit in here that puts forth their ideology for a being that can't be proven is holding back humanity's development.

Who makes the judgment call as to whether you have helped or done harm? If it is primarily you, then you are mistaken in your assessment that you do not have (and rely on) faith in yourself.
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Message 420209 - Posted: 14 Sep 2006, 5:42:47 UTC

More baloney, (and utter nonsense from jeffrey, of course).

What, can't you tell in looking at someone whether their life is better or worse for your having been in it?

You're pretty damn blind if you can't tell - but then, if you're of a religious bent, I could see why you'd wear rose-colored glasses!

All the religious people I have ever come across think it's doing you the world of good if they can just convert you and 'save your soul'.
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Message 420244 - Posted: 14 Sep 2006, 7:49:23 UTC - in response to Message 420209.  

More baloney, (and utter nonsense from jeffrey, of course).

What, can't you tell in looking at someone whether their life is better or worse for your having been in it?

You're pretty damn blind if you can't tell - but then, if you're of a religious bent, I could see why you'd wear rose-colored glasses!

All the religious people I have ever come across think it's doing you the world of good if they can just convert you and 'save your soul'.

All right, I get it, you are not religious. Then why do you come into a thread that is titled "Religious Thread" and variously insult, rant and argue with the people in this thread who are religious or are interested in discussing religious issues?

I consider myself to be fairly religious, yet I have absolutely no desire to convert you to my way of thinking. I learned long ago that the only way people ever truly embrace the teaching that all religions make available, is if the person chooses to do so. In fact, your coming here and arguing with those of us who do hold religious beliefs is exactly the same thing that you just complained about when you referred to people who try to "convert you and save your soul". Only in your case, you are trying to convert others to your view:, that religion is irrelevant.
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Message 420426 - Posted: 14 Sep 2006, 17:19:52 UTC
Last modified: 14 Sep 2006, 18:04:35 UTC

It's interesting, but when I look at different 'religions', some have had a tradition of trying to convert and others have not. Judaism and Hinduism have never traditionally tried to convert people from outside, but others, such as Islam do. This in turn is also a little simplistic. When I look at Christianity, there are many different branches within it; again some of them, such as the Witnesses, and the Mormons, do seek converts, and others like the Quakers do not. And then you get those denominations that are a little in-between about it. So I think it is fair to say that not all religious people seek to convert.

Regards,
Susan.
'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.
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Message 420616 - Posted: 14 Sep 2006, 21:57:26 UTC - in response to Message 420426.  
Last modified: 14 Sep 2006, 21:59:34 UTC

It's interesting, but when I look at different 'religions', some have had a tradition of trying to convert and others have not. [snip] but others, such as Islam do.

That's odd because the Qur'an itself states that Jews are to continue following the Torah and that Christians are to continue following the Gospels...

Maybe you should read it sometime... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 420919 - Posted: 15 Sep 2006, 4:50:53 UTC
Last modified: 15 Sep 2006, 4:51:57 UTC

Only in your case, you are trying to convert others to your view:, that religion is irrelevant


Error: 'my view'. It's not my view. It's what actually, verifiably, IS.

That's the difference between the 'view' you have, based on faith, and proof. It's not me who determines religion is irrelevant - it simply IS irrelevant (at best) and destructive at worst. And that's why I'm talking in here: to stop the madness. I wouldn't give the least little damn to leave religious idiots to their own devices if they only harmed each other, but sadly, they harm intelligent people too. Quite badly, by making them ignorant. If it were not for religion, we would probably be travelling to the stars by now, and we would probably have no wars either.

So, yes, I'll come in here and expose the worst scourge this world has ever seen. The stupididty of religion.


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Message 420927 - Posted: 15 Sep 2006, 4:59:33 UTC - in response to Message 420919.  

Only in your case, you are trying to convert others to your view:, that religion is irrelevant


Error: 'my view'. It's not my view. It's what actually, verifiably, IS.

That's the difference between the 'view' you have, based on faith, and proof. It's not me who determines religion is irrelevant - it simply IS irrelevant (at best) and destructive at worst. And that's why I'm talking in here: to stop the madness. I wouldn't give the least little damn to leave religious idiots to their own devices if they only harmed each other, but sadly, they harm intelligent people too. Quite badly, by making them ignorant. If it were not for religion, we would probably be travelling to the stars by now, and we would probably have no wars either.

So, yes, I'll come in here and expose the worst scourge this world has ever seen. The stupididty of religion.

Yes, if only science and scientists ruled the world it would be Utopia! Dr. Mengela would certainly agree with you.

The above was bitterly sarcastic, I know. I made the statement to illuminate one absurd statement with another.

Religious or not, people are as they are. No group is free from bias, idiocy or just plane madness. Not even scientists.
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Message 420928 - Posted: 15 Sep 2006, 4:59:52 UTC - in response to Message 420616.  

It's interesting, but when I look at different 'religions', some have had a tradition of trying to convert and others have not. [snip] but others, such as Islam do.

That's odd because the Qur'an itself states that Jews are to continue following the Torah and that Christians are to continue following the Gospels...

Maybe you should read it sometime... ;)

If they aren't killed first! :-)
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Message 420997 - Posted: 15 Sep 2006, 9:45:51 UTC

If all religious belief were swept away, I am not sure if the world would be a better place. When I see the atrocities that have been committed in the name of secular ideologies, such as Communism or Nazism, or what has been done in the name of politics or social engineering, I think it is a mistake to make such a bogey out of religion.




'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.
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Message boards : Politics : Religious Thread [8] - CLOSED


 
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