Donations to the Seti project (Pappa)

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Message 363000 - Posted: 11 Jul 2006, 1:29:18 UTC

Evening Everyone

Or at least on my side of the World...

Many things have happened and we are still a bit short of the Goal to Keep Seti Running. Currently there is so much trash in the Fuzzy's Donation thread that is being allowed to go into History... That does not mean that Funds/Money is not needed to keep "Our Favorite Place Alive!"

Funds are Needed... Despite things people say Pro/Con I believe in what Seti is Doing. We see things that the first push helped to finish. So once again, it is time to consider a small Donation. If it a choice between Eating and Seti, I choose eating! WE all understand that Human needs come First!

Thank You

Pappa



Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 364218 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 4:28:51 UTC

Evening Everyone

I am not sure what everyone misses... WE can keep Seti Alive or allow it to die... We are still short of the deadline/goal... The first push allowed things to happen... The New Alfa Receiver is in place... Without Funding it means taht they will collect data and no way to pay for coding the Application that will get it here...

So I have to ask, do You want Azwoody to win? Yes, I know that I just opened it up for his comment...

If You can Donate, Please Do!

Thank You

Pappa

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 364274 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 5:20:39 UTC

Pappa..
Reality is that the project needs $750k for 2006, and right now, they got less than $300k. The US gov has dropped it's NSF funding, and it sure doesn't seem that venders are kicking in a dime.

Seems to me, that in the topic of "donations to the seti project", that there might be a reason that the donations might be short of whats needed.
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Message 364296 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 5:35:58 UTC - in response to Message 364274.  

Pappa..
Reality is that the project needs $750k for 2006, and right now, they got less than $300k. The US gov has dropped it's NSF funding, and it sure doesn't seem that venders are kicking in a dime.

Seems to me, that in the topic of "donations to the seti project", that there might be a reason that the donations might be short of whats needed.


Pappa, as a frequent visitor here and a cruncher since 2000, I appreciate your spirit in helping to keep the project's financial situation up at the top of the forum. Some of us are not able to donate much more than our computers to crunch, that's just life. Winning Powerball would be nice but barring that touch of grace, I will continue to crunch.

Also, azwoody, I would recommend looking into grammar refresher courses. "It's" is (it is), not the possessive (its, as in the US's funds). Also, whats? what's as in (what is). Figured since you give criticism and demand feedback on minutae, you could stand to get some back. :)
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Message 364312 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 5:48:38 UTC - in response to Message 364296.  
Last modified: 12 Jul 2006, 5:52:09 UTC

Pappa..
Reality is that the project needs $750k for 2006, and right now, they got less than $300k. The US gov has dropped it's NSF funding, and it sure doesn't seem that venders are kicking in a dime.

Seems to me, that in the topic of "donations to the seti project", that there might be a reason that the donations might be short of whats needed.


Pappa, as a frequent visitor here and a cruncher since 2000, I appreciate your spirit in helping to keep the project's financial situation up at the top of the forum. Some of us are not able to donate much more than our computers to crunch, that's just life. Winning Powerball would be nice but barring that touch of grace, I will continue to crunch.

Also, azwoody, I would recommend looking into grammar refresher courses. "It's" is (it is), not the possessive (its, as in the US's funds). Also, whats? what's as in (what is). Figured since you give criticism and demand feedback on minutae, you could stand to get some back. :)



Congrats on your language scores, but using a "'" or missing a "'', or even missing a few letters in a post, does not really impact the message!

In another world, and another time, it would be refered to as "shooting the messanger". Its, uh, it's not really somthing that, er that's important to the message!

Also, I think that EVERYONE crunching is donating to the project! We might not get a green star, as we didn't send in $5 USD, but then again, I feel the real donations don't come from a checkbook!
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Message 364320 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 5:55:41 UTC

If I have some money in September after My goals are met, I could possibly donate some money, But I have to buy some land, get permit$, setup a mobilehome w/all util$(Gas & water mains have to be extended, elec & phone/dsl are on the pole and the paid sewer is out in the street), possibly pave a road(It's a dirt one now, It just needs asphalt 3" thick, plus signs for being county maintained), get some furniture replaced, get some PC parts, Buy a new zx-14 motorcycle or some sort of used one and then If I have enough left over donate some money to seti. All of this will be funded from an inheritence from late My Aunts Trust fund($85,312.00-$115,625.00; The amount depends on a condo in Sacramento selling for $242,500.00 or not[that was the condos appraised value]), And in less than a month this will all start(I've been planning this for a few months). I'll be glad when this is all over though. So far the condo hasn't sold as It's a pretty flat market, the two main heirs may buy the condo for $22,500.00 and give up the $220,000.00 cash that they were going to get from the trust(They are the only ones that could do It as none of the other 4 heirs could do It as most are already in debt enough now).
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
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Message 364551 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 12:36:55 UTC
Last modified: 12 Jul 2006, 13:00:24 UTC

1st I truly love the Seti project. It is the only project I run. I’m a big space enthusiast and I would like to know if someone is out there even though I know that the odds of finding a signal is almost “ZERO”.

I’m also a contributor of computer time and money.

Time vs. Money:
I can “see” they upgraded to SE and upgraded the telescope and this costs money.
What about my time though? I download WU’s, return them, get some credit (means nothing to most) and do it again and again. What can I look at to see that what I’m doing means something?

I’m going to use the word “fun/interesting” a lot in the next few paragraphs.

It used to be “fun/interesting” to see how many WU’s I had completed. Now I see a number that is “completely” meaningless to the average person: “credits”. You wonder why people come into the forums and ask: “what can I do with my credits” (and so many of you think your so witty with your replies…your not). They would not be asking that question if they where getting 1 for every WU completed. Getting 1 for every WU completed would be something they would almost automatically understand. The majority of people that crunch are the “average” person.

It used to be “fun/interesting” to see how many hours my computer had run for the Seti project.

It used to be “fun/interesting” to see if one of my WU’s actually detected something.

Seti has always attracted people to the project. People are joining everyday. But, how many have left because they can’t see “if or what” they are accomplishing.

More people equal more money for the project because some will contribute money.

Most of the people that come to these forums are the credit whores…remember…YOU are the “minority” and who cares about you anyway…lol

My suggestion to Seti staff is to bring back some of the “Fun/Interesting” stats that the average person can relate to. Maybe even add a few to make it more interesting. Just fun/interesting stats to keep the “average” person interested and coming back for more. Keep the current credits system in place but bring back the old stats as well so people can follow there own progress.

If you can make people feel: wanted, important, necessary and make it enjoyable as well, (cause this is what everyone wants) they may come and never go away. That is good business. Happy people have bigger wallets too.

Innovative companies are often the ones that get ahead. Just because other projects don’t or won’t do this does not mean you can’t be the trend setters.

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Message 364742 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 17:21:27 UTC - in response to Message 364551.  


Time vs. Money:
I can “see” they upgraded to SE and upgraded the telescope and this costs money.
What about my time though? I download WU’s, return them, get some credit (means nothing to most) and do it again and again. What can I look at to see that what I’m doing means something?

I’m going to use the word “fun/interesting” a lot in the next few paragraphs.

It used to be “fun/interesting” to see how many WU’s I had completed. Now I see a number that is “completely” meaningless to the average person: “credits”. You wonder why people come into the forums and ask: “what can I do with my credits” (and so many of you think your so witty with your replies…your not). They would not be asking that question if they where getting 1 for every WU completed. Getting 1 for every WU completed would be something they would almost automatically understand. The majority of people that crunch are the “average” person.

<snip>

The credit problem is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of things.

Non-enhanced work units were pretty consistent. They all took about the same amount of time. Enhanced work units seem to range from about 60% of the older units to about 7 times what we had before -- a 12:1 ratio.

So, if you abort all of the "long units" and just do the "short units" you can do 12 times the number of WUs.

That doesn't seem fair, even if it's easy to understand. I don't have a better answer.

Contributing a little money helps insure that you'll have work -- because as you pointed out new development costs in staff time and resources. It also costs money to keep things going in general.

I'm encouraged by the new science status page as this is definitely a move toward getting back the status you miss. That too takes developer time. The near-real-time persistency checker would also tell us about meaningful science gleaned from the signals.

So, things are getting better.

... and while it's true that SETI has not yet raised the $750,000, the fact that money is being used to install the new data recorder and release Enhanced and work on the system in general is highly encouraging. They wouldn't do that if they were down to their last dime.

It shows that the cash donations count.

For those who can't donate cash for whatever reason, your contributions are still appreciated.
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Message 364828 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 18:55:26 UTC

We oughta be giving the developers of the faster Seti crunchware donations, too, for all the effort they've been expending. In the USA, anyway, these "donations" might be considered "gifts" and non-tax-deductible for the giver and non-taxable for the recipient. But this is just a guess (even in the US) and probably varies with country. There is a gift tax for huge gifts in the US. I don't know whether it applies to the giver, receiver, or both.
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Message 364958 - Posted: 12 Jul 2006, 21:28:57 UTC - in response to Message 364828.  

There is a gift tax for huge gifts in the US. I don't know whether it applies to the giver, receiver, or both.

Gift tax is on the giver. You can currently give up to $11,000 in each calendar year to any individual recipient with zero federal tax consequence to either giver or receiver when both are USA taxpayers. I know nothing of the law on this matter in other jurisdictions, but at the minimum those (several) U.S. states which base their taxes very directly on lines from the federal return conform in this matter.

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Message 366562 - Posted: 14 Jul 2006, 2:41:00 UTC - in response to Message 364274.  
Last modified: 14 Jul 2006, 3:23:16 UTC

Woody

Sometimes I love your comments... They Brighten My Day and allow me to know that when I walk through a Train Tunnel the light at the other end is Daylight... I know that the Train is Reserved for You! (Say chuckle, chuckle)

Over a few Decades, I have found that You can be as Happy or as Miserable in Life as You Like. You (everyone) can make something "positive" out of almost any situtation, the other times you just have to stick it out... When I finished working my way through the Train Tunnel, the light I saw was Daylight.

So that said I know that there are people here that "Care" about Seti and the do what they can do... There are people would like to do more but are somewhere in the middle of the tunnel... However "Each" does what they can do in a "positive" manner. I chose to donate some money, I have lots of machines that have been moving back an forth between Seti, Beta and Einstein... This does not mention spending extra time attempting to help Eric solve the Credit Problem (Many also have been Helping quietly) or help others remain aware of a unfulfilled need... So over the last few months we have seen progress where things were stalled... Thank You to All the Users that went to help with Beta... Enhanced is Here, The New Reciever is Here... Things in the Forums have changed slightly... The Developers are working to make things Better... Some of the things that you have said pottentially pointed out appear to have been taken under advisement... So whether you liked it or not You were doing something "positive." (We need to work on how to make it more "productive")

Thank You to all the Users that could Donate...


And You still have not said what put the burr under your saddle to make you attack Seti in a Negative fashion repeatedly...

Regards

Pappa

Pappa..
Reality is that the project needs $750k for 2006, and right now, they got less than $300k. The US gov has dropped it's NSF funding, and it sure doesn't seem that venders are kicking in a dime.

Seems to me, that in the topic of "donations to the seti project", that there might be a reason that the donations might be short of whats needed.


Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 366569 - Posted: 14 Jul 2006, 3:02:42 UTC - in response to Message 364551.  

Wavemaker

I know what you are saying, I started a new thread which I will point attention to... I also know that there is a wish list... I know that is happening in the BOINC Development Threads..

@Eric and Matt, How to make things more Fun

You and Others are invited to post things that would make it more Fun Again... Obviously there is no way that I can say any will be adopted... IF it is Easy, then we may gets someones attention as to how people measure "milestones"...

Regards

Pappa

1st I truly love the Seti project. It is the only project I run. I’m a big space enthusiast and I would like to know if someone is out there even though I know that the odds of finding a signal is almost “ZERO”.

I’m also a contributor of computer time and money.

Time vs. Money:
I can “see” they upgraded to SE and upgraded the telescope and this costs money.
What about my time though? I download WU’s, return them, get some credit (means nothing to most) and do it again and again. What can I look at to see that what I’m doing means something?

I’m going to use the word “fun/interesting” a lot in the next few paragraphs.

It used to be “fun/interesting” to see how many WU’s I had completed. Now I see a number that is “completely” meaningless to the average person: “credits”. You wonder why people come into the forums and ask: “what can I do with my credits” (and so many of you think your so witty with your replies…your not). They would not be asking that question if they where getting 1 for every WU completed. Getting 1 for every WU completed would be something they would almost automatically understand. The majority of people that crunch are the “average” person.

It used to be “fun/interesting” to see how many hours my computer had run for the Seti project.

It used to be “fun/interesting” to see if one of my WU’s actually detected something.

Seti has always attracted people to the project. People are joining everyday. But, how many have left because they can’t see “if or what” they are accomplishing.

More people equal more money for the project because some will contribute money.

Most of the people that come to these forums are the credit whores…remember…YOU are the “minority” and who cares about you anyway…lol

My suggestion to Seti staff is to bring back some of the “Fun/Interesting” stats that the average person can relate to. Maybe even add a few to make it more interesting. Just fun/interesting stats to keep the “average” person interested and coming back for more. Keep the current credits system in place but bring back the old stats as well so people can follow there own progress.

If you can make people feel: wanted, important, necessary and make it enjoyable as well, (cause this is what everyone wants) they may come and never go away. That is good business. Happy people have bigger wallets too.

Innovative companies are often the ones that get ahead. Just because other projects don’t or won’t do this does not mean you can’t be the trend setters.



Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 366579 - Posted: 14 Jul 2006, 3:14:10 UTC - in response to Message 364296.  

Ponbiki

Thank You, I know some would if they could.

Pappa, as a frequent visitor here and a cruncher since 2000, I appreciate your spirit in helping to keep the project's financial situation up at the top of the forum. Some of us are not able to donate much more than our computers to crunch, that's just life. Winning Powerball would be nice but barring that touch of grace, I will continue to crunch.


Regards

Pappa

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 366636 - Posted: 14 Jul 2006, 3:45:55 UTC - in response to Message 364312.  

Pappa..
Reality is that the project needs $750k for 2006, and right now, they got less than $300k. The US gov has dropped it's NSF funding, and it sure doesn't seem that venders are kicking in a dime.

Seems to me, that in the topic of "donations to the seti project", that there might be a reason that the donations might be short of whats needed.


Pappa, as a frequent visitor here and a cruncher since 2000, I appreciate your spirit in helping to keep the project's financial situation up at the top of the forum. Some of us are not able to donate much more than our computers to crunch, that's just life. Winning Powerball would be nice but barring that touch of grace, I will continue to crunch.

Also, azwoody, I would recommend looking into grammar refresher courses. "It's" is (it is), not the possessive (its, as in the US's funds). Also, whats? what's as in (what is). Figured since you give criticism and demand feedback on minutae, you could stand to get some back. :)



Congrats on your language scores, but using a "'" or missing a "'', or even missing a few letters in a post, does not really impact the message!

In another world, and another time, it would be refered to as "shooting the messanger". Its, uh, it's not really somthing that, er that's important to the message!

Also, I think that EVERYONE crunching is donating to the project! We might not get a green star, as we didn't send in $5 USD, but then again, I feel the real donations don't come from a checkbook!

If more monetary donations aren't forthcoming. You'll have to donate your crunching to another project.


PROUD TO BE TFFE!
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Message 372780 - Posted: 21 Jul 2006, 3:20:42 UTC

Evening Everyone

The Donations to this point have raised enough money to complete the New Alfa Receiver and get it moved to where it can Record Data... This is the most obvious thing, it has given time to hopefully not watch Seti BOINC Waste away... It has not brought in enough to get new hardware for the other portions of the project (which will tell information that Users would like to seen in the main entrance Seti BOINC). Overall for all the problems and learning that "happened" Everyone did as best they could... There is still a need for more contributions.

If You "Can" please consider a Donation...

Thank You

Pappa

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 373343 - Posted: 21 Jul 2006, 19:11:39 UTC

Maybe that's the reason we haven't been receiving any data from Alfa yet - insufficient donations. Maybe SetiAdmin could divert some of those receipts to the developers of faster crunchers after it reviews those crunchers' results and considering for how much time they were used before being preeempted by program improvements (like SetiEnhanced, Alfa and eight-bit if and when it arrives).
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Message 373410 - Posted: 21 Jul 2006, 21:10:24 UTC - in response to Message 373343.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2006, 21:11:28 UTC

Maybe that's the reason we haven't been receiving any data from Alfa yet - insufficient donations.

The Alfa data is different, better receiver and recorder. My impression is that WUs for Alfa may have a different data representation. Currently each data point is represented by two bits in a WU, Alfa data may have more. In any case, one of the project personnel said it would require a rewritten splitter, and Eric has delayed setiathome_enhanced 5.17 in order to add changes for Alfa data.
                                                              Joe
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Message 373496 - Posted: 21 Jul 2006, 23:15:58 UTC - in response to Message 373343.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2006, 23:18:12 UTC

Clyde

Joe is right, as Eric stated 5.17 needs basic compatibility and will show up in Beta first.

So from that statement "we can presume" that the Science Application will be able to detect the type of workunit and decide whether it is an old type or an "alfa" and go from there...

So at this point there is testing on the "alfa" receiver, data collection and the application that is keeping everyone busy... My premise was that the alfa receiver was known about last year... But appeared to be stalled... So as it was Majikly announced that it got down to Arecibo and put in place "presumed" that the "everyone's Donations" helped to "un-stall" and get things moving again... It also presumes that as the remaining data has now outlasted the original predictions and the "alfa" will be coming online "sooner." I can only suspect some hard choices were made as to "where to dedicate portions of the money" received...

* No Money, meant that Seti runs out of data to crunch... Dead Seti.
* Enhanced allowed a bit of time before "no data to crunch" and better science... Still Dead Seti...
* "Alfa" data means more time and data to crunch... We have Hope and more time.

We know that the "real time persistency" checker is probably stalled because of lack of funding for the new hardware needed (faster computers and LARGE amounts of storage can you saw terabytes)...

Astropulse (presumed), is stalled because of getting the "alfa data" online...

All-in-All, we have a bit more time...

I know that many would if they could, Thank You for the Thought! There are some that still can or if you like the Seti Store which helps and still places money where it is needed...

Please consider a Donation

Thank You

Pappa

Maybe that's the reason we haven't been receiving any data from Alfa yet - insufficient donations. Maybe SetiAdmin could divert some of those receipts to the developers of faster crunchers after it reviews those crunchers' results and considering for how much time they were used before being preeempted by program improvements (like SetiEnhanced, Alfa and eight-bit if and when it arrives).


Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

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Message 373723 - Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 1:43:14 UTC - in response to Message 373343.  

Maybe that's the reason we haven't been receiving any data from Alfa yet - insufficient donations. Maybe SetiAdmin could divert some of those receipts to the developers of faster crunchers after it reviews those crunchers' results and considering for how much time they were used before being preeempted by program improvements (like SetiEnhanced, Alfa and eight-bit if and when it arrives).


I'm afraid I'm the bottleneck again. (Is there a BOINC project working on cloning technology?) The new application will handle certain types of ALFA workunits in addition to the current work units. There's still some work going on with problems with data recorder with certain types of tapes before we can go to distribution. We need to make sure we spend your donations on high quality tapes (so they work properly). Unfortunately, it's not immediately obvious which brands fit the bill. It may even be a problem with certain tape lots.

On a related note (i.e. the bottleneck), greetings from Nashville, Athens of the south, Music City USA. I'll leave you to speculate on why I am here. Was I discovered by record producers singing in a Berkeley honky-tonk? Did I get jealous of Matt's life on the road, sleeping in an SUV next to a guitar?

On a positive note, Josh has fixed some problems with AstroPulse under recent version of BOINC. Maybe we'll get AstroPulse out to beta shortly after 5.17...


@SETIEric@qoto.org (Mastodon)

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Message 374332 - Posted: 22 Jul 2006, 19:09:27 UTC

The way I understand it, two-bit data states the phase angle between the sky signal and the local generator to the nearest quadrant; eight-bit will resolve it to the nearest 1.4 degrees, an increase to 64 times the precision. Don't know how much that will improve the study.
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