Then it's due to either a physical or chemical change!

My point is that most people like to invoke the mysterious 'synergy' the same way they invoke the supernatural. There's nothing supernatural about it - it can be understood by science; if not today, then eventually. It's like saying that adding honey to mustard makes an entirely new sauce that tastes like neither! It runs more than either component! ooooooooo! Magic!

There's no such thing as something being 'more' than the 'sum of its parts'!!

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Then it's due to either a physical or chemical change!

My point is that most people like to invoke the mysterious 'synergy' the same way they invoke the supernatural. There's nothing supernatural about it - it can be understood by science; if not today, then eventually. It's like saying that adding honey to mustard makes an entirely new sauce that tastes like neither! It runs more than either component! ooooooooo! Magic!

There's no such thing as something being 'more' than the 'sum of its parts'!!

pest 'a' damages does 'x' amount of damage per acre. pest 'b' does 'y' amount of damage per acre. a + b does more damage then x + y. hence the term synergy. something that is more than the sum of its parts. it's simple math. no one in this thread suggested it could not be explainded. no one said it was supernatural. u got on that bandwagon all on your own.

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people demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use - soren kierkegaard

@ Chuck [quote] There's no such thing as something being 'more' than the 'sum of its parts'!![end qute]

You are a collection of atoms and molecules, If I analised you and put those atoms and molecules together would I get you?

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"Those who understand compound interest are destined to collect it.
Those who don't are doomed to pay it."



Albert Einstein, well known for being smarter than the average bear, once called compound interest "the greatest mathematical discovery of all time".



"Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world"

.....Albert Einstein



Rule of 72

Albert Einstein once said that compound interest was the most powerful force in the universe.
Einstein is credited with discovering the “rule of 72,” which states that given a particular compound interest rate, you can determine how long it will take to double your investment by dividing 72 by that interest rate. For example, given a 10 percent compound interest rate, you will double your money in 7.2 (72/10) years. With an initial investment of $10,000 at a compound interest rate of 6 percent, you can determine the length of time needed to double your investment by dividing 72 by 6. In that case, it will take exactly 12 years to increase your investment from $10,000 to $20,000.

;-)

from my ol friend Doc Jitter ;_)

quote:
"A Chinese astronomer from the University of St Andrews has fine-tuned Einstein's groundbreaking
theory of gravity, creating a 'simple' theory which could solve a dark mystery that has baffled
astrophysicists for three-quarters of a century.

A new law for gravity, developed by Dr Hong Sheng Zhao and his Belgian collaborator Dr Benoit
Famaey of the Free University of Brussels (ULB), aims to prove whether Einstein's theory was
in fact correct and whether the astronomical mystery of Dark Matter actually exists. Their
research was published on February 10th in the US-based Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Their formula suggests that gravity drops less sharply with distance as in Einstein, and changes
subtly from solar systems to galaxies and to the universe."

Read a very interesting story in full at http://www.pparc.ac.uk/Nw/EinsteinTheory.asp

more . . .
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2006ApJ...638L...9Z

http://www.pparc.ac.uk/

Then it's due to either a physical or chemical change!

Well of course it's due to a 'physical or chemical change'. You never specified that the parts must remain discrete for the additional/new/altered properties to 'count' after they manifest. As was mentioned by Monday, you, Chuck, are far more in effect upon the world than the 150 or so pounds of raw chemicals that make up your body.

If you dispute that statement, than I am afraid that I will be forced to agree with your disputation.

Enough said.

from my ol friend Doc Jitter ;_)

quote:
"A Chinese astronomer from the University of St Andrews has fine-tuned Einstein's groundbreaking
theory of gravity, creating a 'simple' theory which could solve a dark mystery that has baffled
astrophysicists for three-quarters of a century.

A new law for gravity, developed by Dr Hong Sheng Zhao and his Belgian collaborator Dr Benoit
Famaey of the Free University of Brussels (ULB), aims to prove whether Einstein's theory was
in fact correct and whether the astronomical mystery of Dark Matter actually exists. Their
research was published on February 10th in the US-based Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Their formula suggests that gravity drops less sharply with distance as in Einstein, and changes
subtly from solar systems to galaxies and to the universe."

Read a very interesting story in full at http://www.pparc.ac.uk/Nw/EinsteinTheory.asp

more . . .
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-bib_query?bibcode=2006ApJ...638L...9Z

http://www.pparc.ac.uk/

thanks for the links - don't have time at the moment to read them, but i will. this past weekend, i heard joaol magueijo, a cosmologist currently working out of the perimeter institute in waterloo ontario. he is at work trying to disprove one of einstein's laws ... and not just any law. he and a few others are trying to find proof that c, the speed of light, is not a constant. despite a lot of scoffing from most of the science world, he believes it possible that the laws of physics are changing.

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people demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use - soren kierkegaard

BALONEY guys! The so-called 150 lbs of raw chemicals that make up each of us is irrelevant - it's the combinations that are relevant. Extremely complicated and refined as they may be, they are NOT 'magically' special. It doesn't matter where I get my Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, etc. from - if I follow the DNA plan, I can build several of you over and over. Relatively simple and straightforward.

If the total damage of a pest is more than DmgX+DmgY, the reason is that DmgY occuring with DmgX does more than it ordinarily would because of the mechanism I mentionned! How is it a plant already trying its best to fight off pest X will have its full resources to fight off pest Y? They're already committed to fighting off X! Of course Y will do much more damage than it normally would!

I think none of us are in disagreement, and that we all realize the so-called 'synergy effect'. I just say that it's an understandable 'reinforcement' mechanism - whether its copper and tin reinforcing each other in ways we didn't predict, or pests reinforcing each other in attacking an organism.

The experiment I chose to perform for my term paper in 'experimental methodology' was on Meta-Attention. I found that in dividing attention between two tasks, (vs. a control group) the brain gave about 70% to each task. I am sure nobody supposes for one instant that the subjects' brains were operating at 140% vs. the control's 100%!!

The point I'm trying to make is that we can misinterpret an observed phenomenon very easily - usually by failing to reduce the problem into as basic elements as possible. Occam's razor. I find too many people use 'synergy' as a form of 'majic'. That's the only thing I really object to. I suppose I would call it 'reinforcement'.

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

BALONEY guys! The so-called 150 lbs of raw chemicals that make up each of us is irrelevant - it's the combinations that are relevant. Extremely complicated and refined as they may be, they are NOT 'magically' special. It doesn't matter where I get my Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, etc. from - if I follow the DNA plan, I can build several of you over and over. Relatively simple and straightforward.

But would we Live? :-)

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BALONEY guys! The so-called 150 lbs of raw chemicals that make up each of us is irrelevant - it's the combinations that are relevant. Extremely complicated and refined as they may be, they are NOT 'magically' special. It doesn't matter where I get my Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, etc. from - if I follow the DNA plan, I can build several of you over and over. Relatively simple and straightforward.

But would we Live? :-)

Sort of :o)

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BALONEY guys! The so-called 150 lbs of raw chemicals that make up each of us is irrelevant - it's the combinations that are relevant. Extremely complicated and refined as they may be, they are NOT 'magically' special. It doesn't matter where I get my Carbon, Oxygen, Hydrogen, etc. from - if I follow the DNA plan, I can build several of you over and over. Relatively simple and straightforward.

But would we Live? :-)

Sort of :o)

Ha ha ha Thats My Picture!

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BTT: The concept of the whole being more than the sum of it's parts is pretty useless.

If you take the chemical elements that make up a human being, and don't put them together correctly, then all you get is a big mess.

The interesting problem is finding the rules that produce synergistic effects.

Regards Hans

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BTT: The concept of the whole being more than the sum of it's parts is pretty useless.

If you take the chemical elements that make up a human being, and don't put them together correctly, then all you get is a big mess.

The interesting problem is finding the rules that produce synergistic effects.

Regards Hans

Thats what I said!

But would we Live? :-)

I am with stupid.

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> / Knowledge Extraction from Spatially Referenced Databases:
a Project of an Integrated Environment . . .
http://www.ncgia.ucsb.edu/conf/sa_workshop/papers/andrienko.html

. / "The specific case of Belarus can help us to understand the impacts on the public health and economic vitality of a region greatly affected by a devastating environmental disaster" . . .
http://www.ncgia.ucsb.edu/conf/sa_workshop/papers/krivoruchko_old.html

Why wouldn't you live? Are you looking for a soul to make you live?
Give me a friggin break!
We're all nothing more than Carbon based, water-filled biochemical machines, Very elaborate, very complicated in interactions, but more than the sum of our parts? No way.

Just don't forget that that sum includes all the instructions and interactions from the blueprint of your DNA. Most people forget that I believe. Or else they realize that it is so complicated, that they just shut down their thinking and say the majic word: 'synergy'.

Call it 'synergy' if you like. Just so long as you don't replace the exact same unthinking concept of 'god' with it.





(Nice pic of Boris BTW)

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Just don't forget that that sum includes all the instructions and interactions from the blueprint of your DNA. Most people forget that I believe. Or else they realize that it is so complicated, that they just shut down their thinking and say the majic word: 'synergy'.

I think my OS is part Windows 98 because I keep locking up and crashing only to reboot every night. There must be a virus too because I keep losing files. Sometimes my drivers get messed up and I just give people stupid looks, trip for no reason, and dribble water on myself. I'm beginning to think that my soul is just the faults in my OS.

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TEAM
LL

"Why would anyone want to survive their own death?"
--Albert Einstein

Because when you 'survive' your own death (let's say by freezing you) you should get to live again - in the future. If all goes well.

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Because when you 'survive' your own death (let's say by freezing you) you should get to live again - in the future. If all goes well.

I have survived my own death at least twice that I know of.

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Because when you 'survive' your own death (let's say by freezing you) you should get to live again - in the future. If all goes well.

Einstein was actully referring to religious believes of an afterlife, with this qoute.