FOR CRUNCH3R- WE ARE ON STRIKE!!!

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[AF>HFR] ToOm

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Message 326331 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:10:01 UTC

"no new work" until crunch comes back.
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Message 326332 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:12:14 UTC - in response to Message 326325.  


By the way, I have seen 5.19 too!

I believe (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that the 5.19 apps you see are really 5.12 Crunch3r optimized apps using his app_info.xml file. It has secctions in it for all version numbers from 5.12 to 5.19, however Boinc only uses the version of the last section it finds to report the version number which is the (non-existant) 5.19 version, which is really the 5.12.


RAC is an average and if 3 hosts are running 27*7*20 cruncing hundres of WUs there are non problems about some AR. Statistically, it's not important.
Previuosly (two month ago) the RAC of theese HOST was a perfect function of their power, so same cache, memory, OS...... are not important.
Maybe now the new application uses badly che cache but OS, memory and so on is the same during time.
Iesterday I have reverted to original app on the "slow" 3.0 GHz and I will see.

Bye,
Franz

Yes, the new enhanced application is much more sensitive to your memory cache and bandwidth. So a lower speed computer with superior memory caching and bandwidth could outperform a faster cpu with less cache memory or less memory bandwidth. And if you are refering to the "original ver. 4.18" application you won't get any work since the splitters have quit sending out these work units. (Before I get called out on this, yes there *may* be a few floating around that haven't made quorum yet and need resending, but there are no new ones.) If you are speaking of the stock enhanced app, you will only see slightly longer crunch times, and a lower rac than if you are using Crunch3r's optimized apps.
Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.
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Message 326334 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:23:38 UTC

All four of my machines are on strike against the strike, they will only crunch SETI until the strike is over....
And the beat goes on
Sonny and Cher

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Message 326336 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:26:17 UTC

ROFLMAO at this whole fiasco.

Strike supporters: with the long return times for Enhanced, it will probably take MORE than a week to see the change in the stats occur.

Question: what are you going to do once your strike is over and the stats (over the next 2-3 weeks) show little or no change?

Really, the vast majority of Seti users do not frequent these forums, are totally unaware of the call for a strike, and could care less anyway.

@James Von Schmittou: I'm in SE Michigan and I'll be keeping all my systems at their present resource settings and level of work.


Final Classic total: 11446 WU
Classic CPU hours: 72,366
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Message 326343 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:42:07 UTC - in response to Message 326332.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2006, 18:56:35 UTC


Yes, the new enhanced application is much more sensitive to your memory cache and bandwidth. So a lower speed computer with superior memory caching and bandwidth could outperform a faster cpu with less cache memory or less memory bandwidth.


Ok, this is clear.


And if you are refering to the "original ver. 4.18" application you won't get any work since the splitters have quit sending out these work units.


I know it.


If you are speaking of the stock enhanced app, you will only see slightly longer crunch times, and a lower rac than if you are using Crunch3r's optimized apps.


Why? This is not clear.
Some one told me that new 5.15 is not crunched fine by crunch3r apps.
So, I think, if this is real it was better to coordinate with him the new release 5.15
You (seti) perfectly know the app_info.xm that he distribute and you can coordinate and react accordingly.
Or do you (seti and crunch3r) work in different planets? (°_°)

Let me know.
May be instead of communicating with aliens it's better to learn how to communicate among us :-)

Bye,
Franz
(CH)

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Message 326346 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:46:08 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jun 2006, 18:53:55 UTC

I am annoyed and angry for what has happened to Cruncher3.
But I believe this is the wrong way to show our dissatisfaction.

The target of the so called strike which should be better called a slowdown since a strike really mean a work stoppage.
Should not be the Science being done but the idiots who make the Seti@Home BB a miserable place to visit or post in this should be the issue at hand.

I dislike the new credit system but unless the Berkeley staff at Seti changes their minds nothing nor we or anything else will.

The opposite just might happen and this could tick them off enough not to reconsider it.

Their are other more rational means to try this path is not one of them.

This choice will probably not go well with some other members or teams.

But do we judge or actions and standards by other's values or by our own standards and interpretations or are we just supposed to follow.

This is what each of us must decide.

I am not going to do the work action but everyone must do what they think best. That includes my team members and the other Teams.
--
****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****
Come and Visit Us at
BBR TeamStarFire


****My 9th year of Seti****A Founding Member of the Original Seti Team Starfire at Broadband Reports.com ****
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Message 326349 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:51:03 UTC

Just because Crunch3r is saying "Auf Wiederseh'n" doesn't that the end of the world is here for the rest of us Seticrunchers. How about the rest of his team? Won't it be developing better Seticrunch programs in the future?
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Message 326356 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 18:58:33 UTC - in response to Message 326343.  


Some one told me that new 5.15 is not crunched fine by crunch3r apps.
So, I think, if this is real it was better to coordinate with him the new release 5.15
You (seti) perfectly know the app_info.xm that he distribute and you can coordinate and react accordingly.
Or do you (seti and crunch3r) work in different planets? (°_°)

Let me know.
May be instead of communicating with alias it's better to learn how to communicate among us :-)

Bye,
Franz
(CH)

I don't know what you mean by "new 5.15 not crunched fine by crunch3r apps." The version 5.15 is not a crunch3r app. 5.12 is his version. 5.15 is a Seti release. Now if you are thinking that there is a "5.12 work unit" and a "5.15 work unit", you are mistaken. There are only "enhanced" work units. You can use any version of enhanced application to crunch them depending on whether you have an app_info.xml file or not, and if you have that version listed in it as an enhanced application. This misconception can occur because of the way boinc registers the work units it downloads and tags the work unit with the version of the app that you are using. If you will look at a few work units you can see this. Some results will be crunched by one version while another result will be crunched by a different version, however they are all the same *enhanced* work units.
Jim

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Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.
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Message 326368 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 19:13:57 UTC

Personally I think this week long strike against S@H will accomplish nothing. A week of not crunching won't change anything. Those that feel so strongly about going on strike shouldn't just set BOINC for no new work, they should just detach from the project completely on all their computers and find other projects to crunch and bid S@H farewell.

Seriously folks, even though there are some heavy crunchers supporting the strike, the overall effects to the project will be minimal. The science may slowed a bit but the WU's will still get crunched and nothing major will be done to satisfy the credit/rac arguments that many have regarding S@H.

Strike if you wish but for me, I'm not changing a thing. A few S@H WU's a week when BOINC decides it's time to download them into the mix of other WU's for the other projects I crunch for.



To truly explore, one must keep an open mind...
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Message 326403 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 19:50:03 UTC

Apparently many have missed the intent here. Some will turn off network access for a week and some will crunch other projects for a week. I myself will eventually move all machines to another project and never look back until/if things change here. Bottom line is that a large number will probably reach the same conclusion as I did and not return. Each will support the "strike" as they see fit. The main thing is that they will voice their opinion in the way they see fit since voicing it here on the MB is apparently a waste of time considering that we are mainly chastised and maligned for our efforts.

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Message 326407 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 19:53:48 UTC

Hello,

i used crunch3rs opt. clients. Thank you for your work.
SETI is only one of the projects my little calculator is crunching for (Yesterday i have added E@H)
i have watched several threads on this topic.
to accuse crunch3r setted off an avalanche, but soon i have nocticed , the problem is deeper.
the credit-system, "the SETI-Officials" and so on....
the rivalry between US and Euro (German) crunchers,
Words like "Braunhemden" could be read....tz tz...
"Totschlagargumente", which should not be used by civilized people.
Maybe Oscar Wilde was right....
Euroweeny or americannibal, that is too much for me...
I noticed also the deliberate posters, then, there is hope...
I stop my work for SETI for a while until the SITI-Project confirms first Contact!
(guess what the first I stands for..;))
@Clyde C., hope you mean Auf wiedersehn in the original meaning (We´ll see us again) and not "Good bye" (God be wy ye)

Strahli



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Message 326417 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 19:59:15 UTC - in response to Message 326356.  


I don't know what you mean by "new 5.15 not crunched fine by crunch3r apps." The version 5.15 is not a crunch3r app. 5.12 is his version. 5.15 is a Seti release. Now if you are thinking that there is a "5.12 work unit" and a "5.15 work unit", you are mistaken. There are only "enhanced" work units. You can use any version of enhanced application to crunch them depending on whether you have an app_info.xml file or not, and if you have that version listed in it as an enhanced application. This misconception can occur because of the way boinc registers the work units it downloads and tags the work unit with the version of the app that you are using. If you will look at a few work units you can see this. Some results will be crunched by one version while another result will be crunched by a different version, however they are all the same *enhanced* work units.


Fog is rising.
Ok, we have only "enhanced" work units but we have "5.12" apps (optimized or not) and "5.15" apps (????? optimized or not????? I don't know).

So, now, tell me if you can explain this:
Enhanced WU crunched by optimized crunch3r was initially (first of may) 4~7 hours on my "slow" 3.0 MGHz (2 CPUs) than moved to 26~31 hours (speaking of average during days and weeks).
Now with the original application time is back quickly to 12~15 hours.

I should like to know why crunch3r apps takes twice the time in crunching a week of WU's compared with original apps on some PC (or all PC????)

Are you sure that WUs are equals (without speaking of AR)?????

Bye,
Franz
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Message 326431 - Posted: 4 Jun 2006, 20:17:03 UTC - in response to Message 326417.  
Last modified: 4 Jun 2006, 20:20:26 UTC


Fog is rising.
Ok, we have only "enhanced" work units but we have "5.12" apps (optimized or not) and "5.15" apps (????? optimized or not????? I don't know).

AFAIK the only "optimized" enhanced apps that have been released here in mainstream seti is the 5.11 which had a mistake in it then the 5.12 came out with a correction for it. I didn't check Crunch3r's site since I dl'd my linux 5.12 app so I don't know if any others were available or not.

So, now, tell me if you can explain this:
Enhanced WU crunched by optimized crunch3r was initially (first of may) 4~7 hours on my "slow" 3.0 MGHz (2 CPUs) than moved to 26~31 hours (speaking of average during days and weeks).
Now with the original application time is back quickly to 12~15 hours.

I should like to know why crunch3r apps takes twice the time in crunching a week of WU's compared with original apps on some PC (or all PC????)

I can't. Maybe if more were known about the wu's and your configurations someone could tell. Possibly Crunch3r himself if he were to consider coming back to help out.

Are you sure that WUs are equals (without speaking of AR)?????

Bye,
Franz

I can't answer this without bringing up the AR, since yes there is a difference in work units and this is the specific angle range of the work unit. This is what makes the work units take different lengths of time to crunch. A "high" AR may take only a few hours or less to crunch while a "standard" or "low" AR will take considerably longer. They do seem to come in "batches" so you may have gotten a group of high AR units, then a bunch of low AR ones. Now you seem to have a batch of "standard" or medium AR's.
Yes, *except for the AR* the work units are the same. There are *only* enhanced wu's. They are not created for a specific enhanced application version.

And since this thread is about Crunch3r I want to say that if he would decide to come back I'm sure he could answer your questions about his app a lot better than I could since I only tested them on an older linux machine for him. I wasn't involved with the actual programming. So Crunch3r, you are missed!
Jim

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Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.
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Message 326673 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 0:23:21 UTC

My participation in this strike consists of disabling network access for one week. Work will still get done for me, but just will not be reporting any for the duration of the strike. All my machines have been network disabled by 23:30 UTC.

I would also like to say that I respect the decision of those who choose not to participate in this strike, as others should respect our decision to go on strike. No one is being FORCED to participate in this action. And no one can FORCE US NOT to participate. For EVERYONE, it is an individual CHOICE by FREE WILL. Each individual that chooses to participate in the strike will also have different reasons, unique to their individual concerns, just as those who choose NOT to participate in the strike will have unique reasons why they do not wish to participate.

It is NOT my intention to do harm to the project in ANY WAY. For most of us, the work will still get done, but just not reported or uploaded for ONE WEEK. As I said, I am making SURE that none of MY work will go past the deadlines. But there are others who have outright detached from the project, in order to join other projects, or to just shut down their machines. I respect their decisions as well. Even THAT action will not harm the project. The missing results will simply be resent to other participants, if they go over the deadline. Either way, no harm is done to the project. Some people may have to wait longer for their credits to be granted, but then they have already stated clearly that they don't care about credits anyway.

This is simply a NON-VIOLENT protest, by the people who VOLUNTEER their time, effort, and in some cases, money, in the form of donations. I am deeply saddened by the fact that the people who contribute the MOST to the project, be it through improving, and optimizing the source code, or those that contribute their machines on which the science is actually done, or those who contribute financially, are taken for granted as of lately. There are those who just don't realize just how MUCH we contribute to the project. There cannot BE any Distributed Computing projects without volunteers, and the project directors seem to have dismissed that concept as of late. This strike is intended to be a "wakup call", of sorts. You can't vilify and alienate your top producers, and expect them to keep pumping vast amounts of time and money into a hobby that has ceased to give any enjoyment to it's volunteers. They will find another hobby that is more enjoyable. Hopefully, that project can be Seti again.

Regards, Daniel.
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Message 326674 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 0:27:15 UTC - in response to Message 326673.  

My participation in this strike consists of disabling network access for one week. Work will still get done for me, but just will not be reporting any for the duration of the strike. All my machines have been network disabled by 23:30 UTC.

I would also like to say that I respect the decision of those who choose not to participate in this strike, as others should respect our decision to go on strike. No one is being FORCED to participate in this action. And no one can FORCE US NOT to participate. For EVERYONE, it is an individual CHOICE by FREE WILL. Each individual that chooses to participate in the strike will also have different reasons, unique to their individual concerns, just as those who choose NOT to participate in the strike will have unique reasons why they do not wish to participate.

It is NOT my intention to do harm to the project in ANY WAY. For most of us, the work will still get done, but just not reported or uploaded for ONE WEEK. As I said, I am making SURE that none of MY work will go past the deadlines. But there are others who have outright detached from the project, in order to join other projects, or to just shut down their machines. I respect their decisions as well. Even THAT action will not harm the project. The missing results will simply be resent to other participants, if they go over the deadline. Either way, no harm is done to the project. Some people may have to wait longer for their credits to be granted, but then they have already stated clearly that they don't care about credits anyway.

This is simply a NON-VIOLENT protest, by the people who VOLUNTEER their time, effort, and in some cases, money, in the form of donations. I am deeply saddened by the fact that the people who contribute the MOST to the project, be it through improving, and optimizing the source code, or those that contribute their machines on which the science is actually done, or those who contribute financially, are taken for granted as of lately. There are those who just don't realize just how MUCH we contribute to the project. There cannot BE any Distributed Computing projects without volunteers, and the project directors seem to have dismissed that concept as of late. This strike is intended to be a "wakup call", of sorts. You can't vilify and alienate your top producers, and expect them to keep pumping vast amounts of time and money into a hobby that has ceased to give any enjoyment to it's volunteers. They will find another hobby that is more enjoyable. Hopefully, that project can be Seti again.

Regards, Daniel.


Very well stated! See, nobody gets hurt and no animals will be endangered.


http://www.setiusa.net
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Message 326725 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 1:32:56 UTC - in response to Message 326317.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2006, 1:34:57 UTC

@Big Whiskey: Agreed....I 2nd that!






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Message 326742 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 1:46:03 UTC

Another thought: How 'bout if credit systems were done away with completely? And you only get the satisifaction of knowing you're a participant. How many of us would reamain onboard?
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Message 326782 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 2:33:44 UTC

Count me in. Pc's have been shutdown.


-dae6
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Message 326808 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 2:58:53 UTC

Ay carumba......

I will not be joining this strike.

This strike will have absolutely no effect on SETI@home at all.

In fact, this is probably a pretty accurate guess at how the conversations at SETI@home are going to go in the next few days:

"Hey."

"Yeah?"

"The message board morons are on some sort of strike. Looks like they're not going to crunch any work for a week."

"Wonder if there's any donuts left."

"Yeah but I got the last jelly filled one."

"Damn."


I hate to break it to you guys, but I just don't think anyone is going to care if less work gets crunched. They are far more concerned about securing funding in the first place to even RUN the project than they are about the work being done.....In fact, they may even appreciate the reducing costs in bandwidth with all the runaways......

A noble idea, but flawed. If you want to send a message, figure out who is currently on a "scheduled donating" program with SETI@home and have them cancel with the reason being this whole stupid message board hiccup. That'll get their attention a lot faster.
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Message 326809 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 3:01:13 UTC - in response to Message 326742.  

Another thought: How 'bout if credit systems were done away with completely? And you only get the satisifaction of knowing you're a participant. How many of us would reamain onboard?


Maybe three or four... Not too many in any case.

Regards, Daniel.

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