FOR CRUNCH3R- WE ARE ON STRIKE!!!

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Profile Steve @ SETI.USA
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Message 327613 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 16:53:34 UTC - in response to Message 327607.  

I don't care if I get banned from this board, or the whole project, for saying this, but Kevint and Steve Akers don't just have high credit-generation capabilities - they're also very rude and put out a bad message!

We've all gotten into fights about differences in opinion, but this is more than that - you think you're better just because you have faster computers and higher numbers. That you deserve more respect and that your opinion is somehow "more valid."

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=23110#23110


ACK.

The combined contribution of the small crunchers is the majority of the work done for seti.

If I see someone with a RAC of 250 and a total contribution of nearly 200,000 credits, he has all my respect.

Regards Hans


They have all of my respect as well, as long as they don't feel that those doing more work shouldn't receive more credit for the rankings.


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Profile SargeD@SETI.USA
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Message 327622 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 17:03:04 UTC - in response to Message 327613.  

I don't care if I get banned from this board, or the whole project, for saying this, but Kevint and Steve Akers don't just have high credit-generation capabilities - they're also very rude and put out a bad message!

We've all gotten into fights about differences in opinion, but this is more than that - you think you're better just because you have faster computers and higher numbers. That you deserve more respect and that your opinion is somehow "more valid."

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=23110#23110


ACK.

The combined contribution of the small crunchers is the majority of the work done for seti.

If I see someone with a RAC of 250 and a total contribution of nearly 200,000 credits, he has all my respect.

Regards Hans


They have all of my respect as well, as long as they don't feel that those doing more work shouldn't receive more credit for the rankings.


Respect is a two way street after all. It is awful hard to respect someone who is constantly running you down.

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Profile Logan 5@SETI.USA
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Message 327628 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 17:05:55 UTC - in response to Message 327337.  

I don't care if I get banned from this board, or the whole project, for saying this, but Kevint and Steve Akers don't just have high credit-generation capabilities - they're also very rude and put out a bad message!

We've all gotten into fights about differences in opinion, but this is more than that - you think you're better just because you have faster computers and higher numbers. That you deserve more respect and that your opinion is somehow "more valid."

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=23110#23110
Hello again Matt:

As I said in your posting on our Message Boards, you have based this post here (and there) on inaccurate information. Two wrongs do not make a right, and for you to come to our home and cause conflict is just as wrong as how you perceive the actions of kevint & Steve Akers to have been.

Long story short: You are welcome to post on our MB as long as your purpose for doing so is not to cause, 'issues' with the members of our team.


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Message 327653 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 17:29:46 UTC - in response to Message 327613.  



If I see someone with a RAC of 250 and a total contribution of nearly 200,000 credits, he has all my respect.

Regards Hans


They have all of my respect as well, as long as they don't feel that those doing more work shouldn't receive more credit for the rankings.

I agree with you *if* you mean that if you crunch a wu faster (as anyone with a faster computer can) you get the work done faster so you get more credit in the same amount of time. I don't agree with some on these boards that seem to feel that if I crunch a wu in 20 hours for 60 credits and they can crunch the *same* wu in 10 hours they should get 120 credits for it. You are doing the exact same amount of work so you should get the exact same amount of credits for it, regardless of the time it takes.
Jim

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Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.
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Profile Steve @ SETI.USA
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Message 327656 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 17:31:49 UTC - in response to Message 327653.  

They have all of my respect as well, as long as they don't feel that those doing more work shouldn't receive more credit for the rankings.

I agree with you *if* you mean that if you crunch a wu faster (as anyone with a faster computer can) you get the work done faster so you get more credit in the same amount of time. I don't agree with some on these boards that seem to feel that if I crunch a wu in 20 hours for 60 credits and they can crunch the *same* wu in 10 hours they should get 120 credits for it. You are doing the exact same amount of work so you should get the exact same amount of credits for it, regardless of the time it takes.


I totally agree with that!

http://www.setiusa.net
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Message 327657 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 17:32:51 UTC

Wait... when did this turn into a RAC debate? I thought there was some discussion of a strike or something. Must have misread the first few posts...
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Josef W. Segur
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Message 327662 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 17:37:44 UTC - in response to Message 326349.  

Just because Crunch3r is saying "Auf Wiederseh'n" doesn't that the end of the world is here for the rest of us Seticrunchers. How about the rest of his team? Won't it be developing better Seticrunch programs in the future?

There was no development team, only some users testing the builds Crunch3r made. The changes he made to the source were primarily to change what is shown in the stderr.txt part of a Result. Essentially Crunch3r's method was to pay the big bucks to get the Intel compiler, then use it skillfully to produce versions of setiathome_enhanced which perform much more efficiently on CPUs with specific SIMD capabilities.
                                                Joe
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Message 327698 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 18:07:03 UTC

The strike is still ongoing and growing. So if you want your voice heard then join in.

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Message 327709 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 18:16:33 UTC



All I want to say is that I have been with the Seti Project since 5-31-99 and I have never seen such outright abuse of a man's character by people so-called representing a well-known project as what has been done to CRUNCH3R~!

I have joined my teammates in their boycott/strike!

Jammy

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Message 327719 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 18:21:12 UTC - in response to Message 327662.  

Just because Crunch3r is saying "Auf Wiederseh'n" doesn't that the end of the world is here for the rest of us Seticrunchers. How about the rest of his team? Won't it be developing better Seticrunch programs in the future?

There was no development team, only some users testing the builds Crunch3r made. The changes he made to the source were primarily to change what is shown in the stderr.txt part of a Result. Essentially Crunch3r's method was to pay the big bucks to get the Intel compiler, then use it skillfully to produce versions of setiathome_enhanced which perform much more efficiently on CPUs with specific SIMD capabilities.
                                                Joe


Well, that was really nice of Crunch3r! Somebody that would pay big bucks for the compiler as well as use a lot of precious time to develop something better.

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Message 327756 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 19:05:28 UTC

Yep, from this:


To this in 2 days, so SETI@home Enhanced errors do matter:




Predictor@home without any errors in 2 days,,,,,,,,,
Same computers involved, ..........

cya2

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Message 327797 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 19:38:58 UTC

And the strike continues and is still growing. I guess I need to go run some stats now and see the affect.

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Message 327820 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 19:59:36 UTC

I've posted a blog entry which deals with the "strike" from a (more or less) sociologist's point of view. You don't have to look up what that word means if you don't know - the article is in German anyway. If you understand German, here are my 2 Euro-cents (oder meine zwei Rappen, immerhin bin ich stolzes Mitglied von SwissTeam.NET):

http://fischer.uni-hd.de/efcblog/2006/06/streiken-home.htm
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Profile David Stites
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Message 327822 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 20:01:24 UTC - in response to Message 327607.  

I don't care if I get banned from this board, or the whole project, for saying this, but Kevint and Steve Akers don't just have high credit-generation capabilities - they're also very rude and put out a bad message!

We've all gotten into fights about differences in opinion, but this is more than that - you think you're better just because you have faster computers and higher numbers. That you deserve more respect and that your opinion is somehow "more valid."

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=23110#23110


ACK.

The combined contribution of the small crunchers is the majority of the work done for seti.

If I see someone with a RAC of 250 and a total contribution of nearly 200,000 credits, he has all my respect.

Regards Hans

Thank you, we all do what we can. And higher stats does not mean a bigger voice, in my opinon. We are supposed to be helping the devs at SETI@home with their project by doing some computing for them. Some of us seem to forget that.
David Stites
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Profile Steve @ SETI.USA
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Message 327854 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 20:35:55 UTC

Competition among crunchers is good for SETI - that was my point. Those who compete tend to have more computers crunching longer for the project as they try to make their way up the stats. For a great many of us, this keeps things exciting. Achievement and accomplishment should be celebrated. Many people proudly display their stats in their signature for a reason. This ongoing quest for greater accomplishment in the project is also what drove Crunch3r to create his optimized apps that so many here continue to thank him for.

Everyone who contributes their resources to the project is appreciated equally. Those with higher accomplishments than others should not be called credit whores or said to be participating in the project for the wrong motives or intentions. If those motives bring greater power to the project, they should be rewarded appropriately.

People don't like change - it's human nature. They also don't like it when the rules of a game or the rewards change for the detriment of their past experiences. They especially don't like it when they are denegrated by others with lesser achievement and contribution, trying to dictate to them. If you want this project to continue to be successful and continue to grow, you simply must appreciate, respect and reward appropriately those who contribute the most (as examples for others to follow). We used to raise our kids this way. It also used to be considered the mark of any successful enterprise.

When I see someone performing better than me, I try to emulate them or at least study their methods. I am not an elitist when it comes to credit - it is just a way to mark achievement. When goals are set by those motivated by credit rewards, and then the work vs. credit rules change for the worse, it demoralizes those who are driven to exceed their past performance. In fact, the goals lose their meaning now because the entire playing field has changed. Crunch3r recognized this problem and tried to correct it before it affected the participants in this program. And what did he get for that - ignored and accused of trying to cheat the new system (which very few even try to defend now).

We are sick and tired of hearing those with little accomplishment or contribution in this project denegrate those responsible for its past growth and success. That is all.

http://www.setiusa.net
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Message 327864 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 20:54:12 UTC

After all what I have read in the Message board last week I will now left the Project. It´s better for me to spent my money to Einstein and SZTAKI.
Every comment is unnecessary.
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Message 327888 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 21:27:24 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jun 2006, 21:28:51 UTC

Well I thank Crunch3r for all of the time, money and effort he has poured into SETI.
As of tomorrow I will no longer be participating in S@H and possibly any other boinc based project.
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Message 327908 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 21:50:03 UTC

A strike sounds good. (Hell, because of my vacation I'm a few days ahead of everyone on getting no new work!)

Also, if this project has you really cheesed off, you, and especially those with a green star, can do the worst thing imaginable. YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY BACK!

E-mail givetocal@dev.urel.berkeley.edu with the details and transaction number of you donation. I did, saying that, as another person victimized by the mods of this project, it was a decision I regretted, and my money was credited back to my credit card. (My star, obviously, has not disappeared, though, I imagine that's because they weren't expecting a rebellion.)
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Message 327949 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 22:21:35 UTC - in response to Message 327908.  

A strike sounds good. (Hell, because of my vacation I'm a few days ahead of everyone on getting no new work!)

Also, if this project has you really cheesed off, you, and especially those with a green star, can do the worst thing imaginable. YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY BACK!

E-mail givetocal@dev.urel.berkeley.edu with the details and transaction number of you donation. I did, saying that, as another person victimized by the mods of this project, it was a decision I regretted, and my money was credited back to my credit card. (My star, obviously, has not disappeared, though, I imagine that's because they weren't expecting a rebellion.)

Interesting piece of information. Excuse me, got to go send an e-mail.

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Message 327957 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 22:36:23 UTC


Howdy folks,

Well in THIS thread at least, nobody as of yet has made fun of MY small contribution to SETI Science so I certainly will not flame anybody (I do not flame anyway so it's a moot point regardless). I must say however that I am a bit disappointed with the amount of mudslinging that has transpired between both groups. We all do what we can and every contribution is equally important.

The folks that are in this strictly for the competition may have different motives for participating than the rest of us, but their contribution to the science is there just the same and cannot be dismissed. I have always said this. Go ahead, review my message history if you want. I have tremendous respect for you mega-crunchers and your investment of time and money to the project. I also have a lot of respect for Crunch3r and his hard work and have used his applications in the past. Thanks to him, I once had an RAC of 240+ on my lowly Celeron and was pleased to do that much more work for the project. If I wanted to, I would have as much motive for going out on strike as someone with a 1000+ RAC. It's all relative.

Please bear in mind though that those of us who simply cannot afford to run large farms contribute what we can as well, and should not be considered in any way inferior or as having a lesser-voice. Indeed many folks choose to dedicate only spare cpu cycles in keeping with SETI's mission, rather than creating additional cycles to engage in the credit competition. That is our right as much as it is yours to do the opposite, and it does not make us lesser contributors.

On Classic I was called out on the floor once for my paultry contribution, and one of your own told me that it was pathetic that I had only crunched 735 workunits in six years. He said that I 'must be using a Walmart calculator to perform the calculations to have contributed so little'. I did not let that get me down though. In fact, if I WERE using a Walmart calculator to perform the calculations I would be even more proud of my work! LOL. Truth is, I was crunching on a K6-2 at the time that took 40 hours to complete a workunit, and when I was in the field digging the computer was in storage or shut off altogether.

Sorry for the rambling, but even though I have only one computer compared to the rest of you, my RAC has dropped proportionally to everyone elses and I am as disappointed as anyone else here. The very nature of distributed computing dictates that it is the collective work from all of us that matters and not the individual contributions of any one person. It may seem that those of us with lesser RAC's may be bitter or jealous, but in fact in many cases it is our choice, or simply that we cannot do any more financially. The extra ten dollars a month for my one machine is all I can afford right now but it is a lot for me let me tell you.

Let's please just put the name-calling aside and deal with the real issues.

Once again, I am sorry this post got so long. Thanks for reading it anyway.

Dig

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Message boards : Number crunching : FOR CRUNCH3R- WE ARE ON STRIKE!!!


 
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