FOR CRUNCH3R- WE ARE ON STRIKE!!!

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Profile Enigma
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Message 327196 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 8:05:51 UTC - in response to Message 327177.  

For goodness sake, you make credits sound like a "currency", and a case of the haves and havenots (especially when RAC is concerned).

Unbelievable.

You guys are starting to sound like a cartel! The top 20% 'producing' 80% of the effort......(the market is cornered) lucky you don't have a political party and weapons, we could call you a nation state and the you could declare war on the Berkleyites.

Add free market competition (the other projects) and wow, we got a whole little world here with its own political factions.

Perhaps you should all take a long hard look at what is going on and see the project(s) for what they are.

A contribution to mankind

Why can't people just be happy with their individual effort and contribution to a bigger picture?

If information was available as to the worldwide progress and stats (all stars, regions and frequencies mapped/remapped globally, the credit system would be displaced (people may actually see it for what it really is - USELESS)).


ok, now a third case in point.

Total credit 5,866.87
Recent average credit 37.51


Thanks for re-enforcing my claims above.

Steve Akers
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Do you think the above Credits and RAC have ANY intrinsic value beyond you being personally satisfied with your contribution to a world-wide project??

Do people look on at your numbers (cause thats all they are) with ENVY? Admiration? Respect?

It should never come to that as these values are human constructions and worth nothing.

Talk about warped thinking..............

If the top 20% of 'crunchers' walked away today, SETI@HOME could completely revamp the credit system (i.e. disband it) and provide a more valuable measure of progress (like which star systems, maps, whatever have been examined).

I suspect that they havent done it already because of advocates like yourself, but it is only a matter of time.

>> MESSAGE TO THE MODS AND BERKLEY <<

**** UPGRADE THE CREDIT SYSTEM TO A WORLDWIDE PROGRESS TRACKING SYSTEM ****


Now, this would be progress!!
Belief gets in the way of learning

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Jim
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Message 327197 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 8:06:03 UTC - in response to Message 327136.  


You don't care because you don't have a RAC worth talking about.
Outrageous pomposity! Does higher RAC make you a better person in any way? Shame!

Am I the only one who feels this deserves redress??? In the recent past such crass comments as his would have been blown out of the water by dozens. Step up people!




Without love, breath is just a clock ... ticking.
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Message 327227 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 9:15:07 UTC

Let's do some number crunching.

On BOINCstats, SETI@home currently has 460,156 users and 7,334,459,113 (over seven billion) credits for SETI@home.

Trux mentioned that a reference SETI work unit generates 32.32 cobblestones on a reference machine.

These figures then give a total of 226,932,522 work units.

Let's assume 1% of total WUs used Crunch3r's code. That's 2,269,325 work units.

Let's assume that, on average, Crunch3r's work cuts 20% off execution time. Conversely, we can say that 25% more work is done on Crunch3r-enabled machines than on non-optimized ones.

Without Crunch3r's code, those machines would only have completed 1,815,460 work units. With optimization, 453,865 additional work units were completed.

Again, using the BOINCstats figures above, SETI@home averages 493 work units per user.

Everything else being equal, Crunch3r's code has generated the work of 920 ADDITIONAL average users.

Everything else being equal, there are 4,603 users running Crunch3r's code.

On BOINCstats, SETI generates roughly 20 million credits per day. That's 43 work units per user per day.

Using the data above, a Crunch3r user generates 25% more work units than a standard user.

If all 4,603 Crunch3r users stoppped work, SETI loses 247,411 work units per day. Over 100 hundred days, a full boycott results in 24,741,100 lost work units.

These are a lot of assumptions. Scale them up or down, according to your inclination.

Also, please check the math. I may have gotten some things wrong.

After all is said and done, perhaps what I'm trying to say is:
1. people use Crunch3r's code because it gets more science done;
2. SETI benefits because more science is done sooner rather than later; and
3. people supporting Crunch3r have a right to be upset because, without him, further optimization may not be forthcoming (unless asokf, TMR, and others fill in the vacuum, or the project gets more funding to support further optimization).

I'm shifting my machines to other projects in the meantime. Like Crunch3r, I don't have access to all my machines all the time, so some of them will still be crunching SETI.

I'll set SETI to "no new work" until Crunch3r comes back. For this, it would be enough that the project (Dr. Anderson, et al) ask him to come back and continue his work, with or without "official" endorsement. If Crunch3r refuses, I'll reassess my stand then.

Months ago, I added Einstein so my machines can work even when SETI was down. Last week, when both SETI and Einstein were down, I added QMC, SIMAP, and SZTAKI. I chose these other projects because I was interested in the science they were doing, but also because asokf has released optimized apps for SIMAP and SZTAKI as well. QMC isn't optimized, but... I like the science enough to crunch for it without optimized clients.

I'm not on any team. I'm not in this for the RAC.
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Message 327230 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 9:24:46 UTC

.... respect !!!...
has participated in the SETI@home project since 7 August 1999, and has contributed 496,297 Cobblestones of computation (428.80 quintillion floating-point operations) and 12488 Classic workunits to SETI@home's search for extraterrestrial life.
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Profile Darth Dogbytes™
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Message 327231 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 9:28:00 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jun 2006, 9:35:03 UTC

An official thank you would go a long way as well since we are all volunteers.
No ones ever gotten one around here from officialdoom that I can remember; much less the entire Seti group. That's sad.


Even businesses call their regulars "valued customers" whether they mean it or not.
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Profile MattDavis
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Message 327337 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 12:03:45 UTC

I don't care if I get banned from this board, or the whole project, for saying this, but Kevint and Steve Akers don't just have high credit-generation capabilities - they're also very rude and put out a bad message!

We've all gotten into fights about differences in opinion, but this is more than that - you think you're better just because you have faster computers and higher numbers. That you deserve more respect and that your opinion is somehow "more valid."

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=23110#23110

-----
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Message 327346 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 12:19:30 UTC

I feel many are missing the point on the strike. A strike is indicative of dissatisfaction or issues that need to be addressed. The fact that one goes through the process constitutes the seriousness of the issue/issues. It is not the length of the strike that is important but that it even occurs. The strike is not intended to hurt anyone/anything but to enhance the relevance of an issue that many feel to be important.
This is only a test...

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Message 327352 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 12:26:25 UTC - in response to Message 327337.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2006, 12:28:02 UTC

Self censored in order not to heat up any further; was basically in support of Matts post.


"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant." R.M. Nixon
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Message 327456 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 14:14:05 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jun 2006, 14:16:12 UTC

Ok I agree with supporting crunch3r on this, but I can also see where Eric is coming from. If there really are more points to this than the situation with crunch3r, then list them, post them in the thread.
Otherwise I can't see anything being resolved.
Also I have to agree that a week isnt really going to do much. A month would be better.
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Profile SargeD@SETI.USA
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Message 327468 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 14:26:25 UTC - in response to Message 327456.  

Ok I agree with supporting crunch3r on this, but I can also see where Eric is coming from. If there really are more points to this than the situation with crunch3r, then list them, post them in the thread.
Otherwise I can't see anything being resolved.
Also I have to agree that a week isnt really going to do much. A month would be better.

Well, if there is no resolution or at least movement toward a resolution, you may find that many of us participating in the "strike" have no intention of coming back. So therefor a week is plenty of time for us. Others are quite welcome to stretch it out as long as they are willing, but the original intent was to make the point without hurting the project if we could.

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Message 327473 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 14:28:57 UTC

new action against crunch3r look at this.. !!! http://calbe.dw70.de/
has participated in the SETI@home project since 7 August 1999, and has contributed 496,297 Cobblestones of computation (428.80 quintillion floating-point operations) and 12488 Classic workunits to SETI@home's search for extraterrestrial life.
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Message 327483 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 14:34:03 UTC

@GilbertP
think your maths is off a bit,

per day / credits per unit /active hosts = units per day per host
20,000,000 / 32 / 320,000 = ~2 units per host per day

I will not go further.

Andy
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Message 327487 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 14:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 327473.  

new action against crunch3r look at this.. !!! http://calbe.dw70.de/

I wish he'd post them as text instead of msg files.
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Message 327506 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 15:06:23 UTC - in response to Message 327473.  

new action against crunch3r look at this.. !!! http://calbe.dw70.de/

"Thanks for sending me some Viruses via Mail. Had a good laugh about it."


Now thats disgusting behavior. Hope He's reported them in some way. Got to be illegal somewhat to delibrately try and infect someones computer with a virus.
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Message 327525 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 15:28:35 UTC - in response to Message 327487.  

new action against crunch3r look at this.. !!! http://calbe.dw70.de/

I wish he'd post them as text instead of msg files.

The message files retain the dates and headers and are more valuable as proof than a text version would be.

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Message 327540 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 15:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 327525.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2006, 16:14:35 UTC

new action against crunch3r look at this.. !!! http://calbe.dw70.de/

I wish he'd post them as text instead of msg files.

The message files retain the dates and headers and are more valuable as proof than a text version would be.


heres the first i pieced together anyway. Couldn't get it to open at all. Even tried a dedicated .msg file viewer. Wierd.
If crunch3r would prefur that this not be posted here then please say so and i'll edit it out whilst i still can. Any one know?



Hello Eric,
I don't know if it makes any sense to you, but i've compild the std source for windows with the intel compiler 9.1 using fftw.

...

the reason why i did it is that i've noticed that the binaries build by the intel compiler do not generate those c++ exeptions.
Maybe you could test it in the beta project just to make sure the c++ exeptions are not compiler related.

The binary is compiled without any cpu specific optimizations.

Also i like to note that the compiler generated some error messages.See below.

c:\\SOURCE\\testsource\\seti_boinc\\client\\worker.cpp(150) : error C3204 '_alloca' kann nicht innerhalb eines catch-Blocks aufgerufen werden
version.cpp
timecvt.cpp
spike.cpp
seti_header.cpp
seti.cpp
c:\\SOURCE\\testsource\\seti_boinc\\client\\seti.cpp(821) : error C3204: '_alloca' kann nicht innerhalb eines catch-Blocks aufgerufen werden

The translation would be something like:
error C3204: '_alloca' cannot be called within a catch-block

Anyhow if you want to test the app you can get it here: http:-----------------------------------------------
Regards
Crunch3r
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Message 327544 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 15:45:26 UTC - in response to Message 327525.  

new action against crunch3r look at this.. !!! http://calbe.dw70.de/

I wish he'd post them as text instead of msg files.

The message files retain the dates and headers and are more valuable as proof than a text version would be.

While I agree with that, some people can't read them.
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Message 327550 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 15:50:12 UTC - in response to Message 327540.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2006, 15:50:51 UTC

Second seems to be mostly the same at a glance so i wont waste my time. Probly loads of timestamps and addresses that i cant read because encrypted and i wont put peoples addresses on. Specially considering Crunch3r is getting viruses sent to his mailbox because of all this fiascow
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Message 327595 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 16:38:02 UTC - in response to Message 327550.  

Second seems to be mostly the same at a glance so i wont waste my time. Probly loads of timestamps and addresses that i cant read because encrypted and i wont put peoples addresses on. Specially considering Crunch3r is getting viruses sent to his mailbox because of all this fiascow

Probably a smart move on your part. :)

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Message 327607 - Posted: 5 Jun 2006, 16:49:19 UTC - in response to Message 327337.  

I don't care if I get banned from this board, or the whole project, for saying this, but Kevint and Steve Akers don't just have high credit-generation capabilities - they're also very rude and put out a bad message!

We've all gotten into fights about differences in opinion, but this is more than that - you think you're better just because you have faster computers and higher numbers. That you deserve more respect and that your opinion is somehow "more valid."

http://www.setiusa.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=23110#23110


ACK.

The combined contribution of the small crunchers is the majority of the work done for seti.

If I see someone with a RAC of 250 and a total contribution of nearly 200,000 credits, he has all my respect.

Regards Hans
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Message boards : Number crunching : FOR CRUNCH3R- WE ARE ON STRIKE!!!


 
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