I'll have to relay this to the PC Perspective Killer Frogs Seti Team.

It will be good to have the Killer Frogs on strike with us! The more teams participating in this, the stronger the message will be!

I am a member of TFFE, our entire team census for all projects is 170 users. Our little team was 32nd in Seti until fairly recently, but most of our Seti crunchers have moved to other projects, mainly Einstein. There was no movement or discussion on our team board to drop Seti, but our members have been slowly withdrawing until now, we are doing very little Seti work. We're just fading away so there's no need to strike...we're already for the most part gone.

P.S. My own RAC used to be over 10,800.

That means you and the other "Team" members will slowly move down the stats and I will move back up from the number 2 slot to number 1 again then, right?
Happy crunching!

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{tone:cheerful}
The purpose behind Seti enhanced is to slow down the amount of work the servers have to do. With all the people stopping work for Seti it looks like it is very successful. And using an optimized app is going in the wrong direction anyway.

Keep up the good work.

Yes, if it's so, why someone changed also the credit rules?

Boys playing with toys?

Franz

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{tone:cheerful}
The purpose behind Seti enhanced is to slow down the amount of work the servers have to do.....

Really? I thought it was because they were "widening the search". If they wanted to reduce volume there was really no need to go to all the trouble they have in coding a new client. Nor was there need to cause such dissatisfaction and chaos with regular users. I think you are wrong there David Stites.

Psychologically Seti screwed it big time. They should have introduced the better science enhanced app and increased credits by some big number. It really does not matter how big the numbers are as they are truly meaningless and of no value anyhow.

People feel robbed when numbers get smaller. Think of Italians, a cup of coffee, the Lira and the Euro - it says it all.

Anyhow the upshot for me - Having thought about it I now question the value of doing any Seti processing given the very very low chance of any good coming of it. I have stopped Seti processing.

Tony say sorry to Crunch3r and let's have a period of reconciliation.

---

{tone:cheerful}
The purpose behind Seti enhanced is to slow down the amount of work the servers have to do.....

There has been an email exchange (can't find it right now) w.r.t the lack of sensitivity a while ago.
It boils down to the fact that signals would be shifting in frequency over time and could be missed by the pulse finding code.
Seti_enhanced is addressing this by doing finer frequency shifts.

Regards Hans

---

I'm at "no new work" until crunch comes back.

---

Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station. - Grand Moff Tarkin

..also stopped..

---

has participated in the SETI@home project since 7 August 1999, and has contributed 496,297 Cobblestones of computation (428.80 quintillion floating-point operations) and 12488 Classic workunits to SETI@home's search for extraterrestrial life.

Wow, some commitment: One Week.

Good thing the Free Speech movement in the sixties during the Vietnam War didn’t only last one week, (and then half-heartedly i.e. just disabling network access). Nixon might have marched on China.

Please reconsider your commitment when you declare war on the Seti Project. They might want to invade Iran next.

Tom Johns


(Being as the UCB was the focal point of the "Free Speech" Movement back in the '60's, I trust that they will understand this, and NOT CENSOR or delete this post, but rather make it a "Sticky)

---

Just set "Resource Share @1%" for Seti@Home, and im prepared to not come back til this is resolved. If this project ignores me, fine. I wont look back. Its sad that this project is getting greedy with the credits and shiting on the people that have been the backbone since creation. I have promoted this project to a lot of people in the past and have defended it with pride. So i ask Seti@home to please meet everyone in the middle on this or prepare to lose a lot Seti@home users in southeastern part of Michigan "Local Detroit area". I will continue to come back on this forum and check the status of it, but i will just stop coming after awhile. so BEWARE. I just might leave the whole boinc it self, cause nothing else really interest me as SETI.

---

{tone:cheerful}
The purpose behind Seti enhanced is to slow down the amount of work the servers have to do. With all the people stopping work for Seti it looks like it is very successful. And using an optimized app is going in the wrong direction anyway.

Keep up the good work.

David, the irony in your post is recognized, however to not further perpetuate a myth, the "purpose" behind the enhanced application was and still is to do a more detailed search of the data for any signals. This was the purpose from the beginning. The recent problems with the servers prompted a "joke" in the beta forum that since these work units were taking so long to complete, it would reduce the workload on the servers, which admittedly is true. However this has not been nor has ever been (afaik) any part of the "real" reasons for enhanced. If this were the case, the dev's would have left the crunch times at what they were originally (in my case 160+ hrs) instead of optimizing the main application to achieve shorter crunch times (again in my own case, ~20 to 40 hrs.).

While I am not stopping my crunching, I do sympathize with you who are. I may not agree with your methods of protest, however I do agree with your right to protest in any way you see fit. I agree that this whole affair could have been handled without any of the fuss we are seeing if all parties involved would have used a little more common sense in their dealings with each other. I sincerely hope he can work things out with Berkeley and others and come back to helping here. His apps are greatly appreciated and sorely missed and his wisdom on these forums is also greatly missed!

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

I'm protesting the "strike" (haha, disabling network access) by putting all my resources back on Seti only.

What a disgrace, using what happened to Crunch3r as an excuse when what they're really upset about is the credit system.

---

Proud member of Team Starfire World BOINC

David, the irony in your post is recognized, however to not further perpetuate a myth, the "purpose" behind the enhanced application was and still is to do a more detailed search of the data for any signals. This was the purpose from the beginning.

Sorry, you are not telling all.
It's true what you say about more detailed science ... but, BUT.... why someone changed the result computation algorithm?
Previous wasn't fine?
And why three versions in ONE months?

In this moment I have some host running 24*7 with crunch3r optimized apps.
I show you 3 of them:
AuthenticAMD AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2200+ (1 CPU) ...............187 RAC
GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz (1 CPU) .....277 RAC
GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs) ....198 RAC

As you can see older are equal or faster than new host. Foolish.
Wit the previous algorithm the scale from old to new hosts was real, now sometimes is upside down. IT's a "casino".

Bye,
Francesco

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What a disgrace, using what happened to Crunch3r as an excuse when what they're really upset about is the credit system.

BAM!

What a disgrace, using what happened to Crunch3r as an excuse when what they're really upset about is the credit system.

BAM!

ummm yeah.... i will admidt, im mad about the credit system. I dont think any of us are denying that... Crunch3r is just another part of it, all he did and to see Seti@home take a dump on him. Thats what this is about. I mean, the whole root of the problem with Crunch3r stems from the credit system anyways.

---

I'm protesting the "strike" (haha, disabling network access) by putting all my resources back on Seti only.

What a disgrace, using what happened to Crunch3r as an excuse when what they're really upset about is the credit system.

m00kie - we are actually frustrated about many things - Crunch3r and the credit system being 2 primaries. There were plenty of unresolved issues prior to the thing between Tony and Crunch3r - that just happened to be the final kicker for us, especially after not being dealt with by the admins the day after.

---

http://www.setiusa.net

What a disgrace, using what happened to Crunch3r as an excuse when what they're really upset about is the credit system.

BAM!

Agreed

David, the irony in your post is recognized, however to not further perpetuate a myth, the "purpose" behind the enhanced application was and still is to do a more detailed search of the data for any signals. This was the purpose from the beginning.

Sorry, you are not telling all.
It's true what you say about more detailed science ... but, BUT.... why someone changed the result computation algorithm?
Previous wasn't fine?

No it wasn't. There was wide variations in the credits calculated for various computers crunching the exact same work unit. The new fpops system is an attempt to correct that. Now no matter what cpu or operating system you run or what speed it is you will get almost exactly the same credits per work unit that all users crunching that same work unit gets. I'm not going to go into details here about this, just browse back through a few pages of posts, or read the Enhanced Faq for explanations of the fpops system and why it was adopted.

And why three versions in ONE months?

While the apps were in beta testing we had a fairly good variety of computers testing the various versions and tracking down problems. However we had a limited number of total computers with only a few configurations and a limited amount of programs installed and running on them. Until the applications were released into the mainstream here, there was just not enough computers running the application to find and fix all of it's problems. So we started off with ver. 5.12. When it was found to have problems with Windows computers, a new version 5.13 was released with a fix for the windows computers. Now as I understand it, some operating systems are running ver. 5.15. (I run Linux and my current app version is still 5.12) As I recall, there was a post somewhere that mentioned the changes made in the 5.15 app, but I don't have it handy. So the different versions are simply that the developers have gotten more information on the workings of the applications than they could obtain using the limited number and types of computers available in beta.

In this moment I have some host running 24*7 with crunch3r optimized apps.
I show you 3 of them:
AuthenticAMD AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2200+ (1 CPU) ...............187 RAC
GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz (1 CPU) .....277 RAC
GenuineIntel Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs) ....198 RAC

As you can see older are equal or faster than new host. Foolish.
Wit the previous algorithm the scale from old to new hosts was real, now sometimes is upside down. IT's a "casino".

Bye,
Francesco

Sorry, but you did not provide enough information to form an opinion as to why your rac is different from what you expect. You must consider the operating system you are running, the memory available, the amount of l1 cache you have on your computer, the angle range of the work units you have processed lately, etc. All these are variables that will influence your credits and rac.

---

Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

No it wasn't. There was wide variations in the credits calculated for various computers crunching the exact same work unit.

Of course, 'cause the CPU time was part of the formula.

By the way, I have seen 5.19 too!

Sorry, but you did not provide enough information to form an opinion as to why your rac is different from what you expect. You must consider the operating system you are running, the memory available, the amount of l1 cache you have on your computer, the angle range of the work units you have processed lately, etc. All these are variables that will influence your credits and rac.

RAC is an average and if 3 hosts are running 27*7*20 cruncing hundres of WUs there are non problems about some AR. Statistically, it's not important.
Previuosly (two month ago) the RAC of theese HOST was a perfect function of their power, so same cache, memory, OS...... are not important.
Maybe now the new application uses badly che cache but OS, memory and so on is the same during time.
Iesterday I have reverted to original app on the "slow" 3.0 GHz and I will see.

Bye,
Franz

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By the way, I have seen 5.19 too!

I believe (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that the 5.19 apps you see are really 5.12 Crunch3r optimized apps using his app_info.xml file. It has secctions in it for all version numbers from 5.12 to 5.19, however Boinc only uses the version of the last section it finds to report the version number which is the (non-existant) 5.19 version, which is really the 5.12.

RAC is an average and if 3 hosts are running 27*7*20 cruncing hundres of WUs there are non problems about some AR. Statistically, it's not important.
Previuosly (two month ago) the RAC of theese HOST was a perfect function of their power, so same cache, memory, OS...... are not important.
Maybe now the new application uses badly che cache but OS, memory and so on is the same during time.
Iesterday I have reverted to original app on the "slow" 3.0 GHz and I will see.

Bye,
Franz

Yes, the new enhanced application is much more sensitive to your memory cache and bandwidth. So a lower speed computer with superior memory caching and bandwidth could outperform a faster cpu with less cache memory or less memory bandwidth. And if you are refering to the "original ver. 4.18" application you won't get any work since the splitters have quit sending out these work units. (Before I get called out on this, yes there *may* be a few floating around that haven't made quorum yet and need resending, but there are no new ones.) If you are speaking of the stock enhanced app, you will only see slightly longer crunch times, and a lower rac than if you are using Crunch3r's optimized apps.

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Jim

Some people plan their life out and look back at the wealth they've had.
Others live life day by day and look back at the wealth of experiences and enjoyment they've had.

All four of my machines are on strike against the strike, they will only crunch SETI until the strike is over....

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And the beat goes on
Sonny and Cher

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