As the Calvin & Hobbes cartoon said: "The surest sign that there is intelligent alien life is that it hasn't tried to contact US."

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

Now this is a BIG question...

1) Because there is no intelligence out there, we really are ALONE in this universe.. this one is the scariest in my estimation… it proves we are an absolute freak of nature and when we finally nuke ourselves over some stupid petty difference in oil/land/religion…...the cockroaches will be the next intelligence…because their shells reflect shortwave radiation and they will survive just like they did at ground zero hiroshima

2) There is no other intelligence in THIS GALAXY… but there is in the other galaxies [ in fact one intelligence in each galaxy] , which are too far away for our or their radio signals to be heard .. this one is better in that there are others out there but just a loooooooong way away.. it also raises the question though if we are the only intelligence in this galaxy and they are the only intelligence in their respective galaxies…. Then who is the supreme intellect that placed us each in a galaxy of our own to grow and adapt to space travel???? Who is playing god??.. who decided we each needed a galaxy of our own to grow and adapt in ..it smacks of managed systems??

3) We are the only intelligence in this universe.. but the parallel universes also have intellects in them… we just don’t know how to cross to a parallel universe…yet

4) If there is another intellect within this galaxy and they have not or will not contact us then they have actually given their hand away in the game of galactic poker… they must have some sort of vested interest in us… perhaps we are a lab experiment.. perhaps there is no “missing link” in the evolutionary chain because the chain is not broken at all it is a “managed” chain… we are genetically deliberately being altered as the centuries go by…?

5) If they have already been here…roswell, black-stump, etc… and they still do not publicise the fact then their motives may be either good or hostile.. which one?? Or if there realy was no crash sites and the whole thing is a ploy to divert public attention then we are all being fed a line of bulldust by the powers that be ..??


6) And of course the whole “we are not worthy” thing…”we need to grow up more” “ we as a species need to grow beyond guns and bombs and religion”…etc etc. which is really trying to say they have been/are here/ are looking at us..??

7) Or how about “we exist and we don’t worship their god so we cant be introduced to the rest of their clan because we will contaminate them with evil thoughts”… this one suits the religionists well…

8) actually they do exist and they are communicating with us [humans] ... but of course in the interests of public interest the powers further up the feeding chain do not think it is the best interests of the world to know because...
...think of the public panic..?
...think of what it would do to established religions..?
...think of the problems of only one country being in on the chat process..?
...who stands to gain the most
...who stand to loose the most
.............................. this could go on for pages so I will stop now...

just adding one more to the bottom of the list
... there are other intelligences in our galaxy and they are not up to our level of technology yet... hence no contact..

just adding one more to the bottom of the list
... there are other intelligences in our galaxy and they are not up to our level of technology yet... hence no contact..

What if space is just too damn big?

What with these crappy "laws of physics" and all.... 300,000 KM's / Sec is a joke. It's a bit like a 4 kph speed limit on the autobahn.

Assuming there are 1000 intellgent life forms spread across the cosmos, that they have developed space travel (at the speed of light) and live on average for 1000 (Earth) years.

What's the probability of them EVER finding one-another.

Time to find some more 'laws of physics' me thinks.

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Belief gets in the way of learning

Wormholes

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Consider porpoises... probably intelligence on a par with our own but evolved in entirely different directions.

For one thing, they live in electrically conductive salt water which is not the best place to develop an electronics technology, even if they were inclined to do so. Since they don't seem to need to create structures of any kind, they may never use their large brains to get into physics.

Among the bodies in our solar system that probably have liquid water, only Earth has both water and dry land where offworld communications is more likely to develop. It's possible that most planets in the galaxy with liquid water have planet-wide oceans that could be populated by genial porpoise-like creatures with no mechanism for radio communication. Or hands.

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That's a good point.

I read an article where dolphins actually have names for each other in dolphin language. Although life is almost assured elsewhere, the question is are they intelligent enough and able to communicate. I agree with enigma and others with the limitations of physics.

Thus, why would they communicate? The only reason I can think of is the hope of receiving information that might help or enlighten us or them.

The limitation of physics might not be a problem because of my personal belief system. That is that the speed of light is based on the same laws that govern electrodynamics. As such if there were a truly neutral partical, there would be no reason for it to obey the cosmic speed limit. Detection would be a problem but....

Using a resonance feedback mechanism might be possible to negate the electrodynamics of matter from the outside environment which would also render it invisible. Laymans terms would say cloaking device and reference the philadelphia experiment. The idea is not really that wild, you simply need the proper detection, response time, power and feedback. Anyone can go to the store and spend $100 or more on a pair of earphones that does this with sound for reducing ambient noise in noisy areas or for improving music. We can do it with sound and theoretically, we can do it with light. We only need the precision and power and faster than light travel should be possible.

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TEAM
LL

Sleestak, I like your idea but it's hard to imagine the engineering difficulties. Still, when engineering is invoked then theory has already been there so it's only a matter of time - in this case possibly a lot of time.

re. the electromagnetic force - what about the the nuclear forces, their known unification with the electromagetic force, and gravity? What effect could these have on faster than light travel? I think we need a lot better understanding of gravity and its relationship to the other three forces before we will know. By equating gravity with acceleration, general relativity brings time distortion into the equation. I have no idea how that fits but I have to think it plays an integral part in the speed of light.

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Sleestak, I like your idea but it's hard to imagine the engineering difficulties. Still, when engineering is invoked then theory has already been there so it's only a matter of time - in this case possibly a lot of time.

re. the electromagnetic force - what about the the nuclear forces, their known unification with the electromagetic force, and gravity? What effect could these have on faster than light travel? I think we need a lot better understanding of gravity and its relationship to the other three forces before we will know. By equating gravity with acceleration, general relativity brings time distortion into the equation. I have no idea how that fits but I have to think it plays an integral part in the speed of light.

I think temporal distortions and other issues (unknown) that may happen around or by exceeding light speed could get 'interesting' to say the least.

The idea of folded space / wormhole is very interesting but it still doesn't help that much unless it can be controlled. Even if there were wormholes, assuming they are 'point to point' then they may be fairly useless.... you may traverse several galaxies in seconds, to find there is very little or nothing of interest at the other end within 100 light years (back to the same problem - light speed).

Even if the human race was to survive for 1 billion years, this is pittance in the scheme of things and still insufficient time for exploration at light speed.

Furthermore, you have to ask if it would be some 'cruel joke' for the fabric of reality to be so limited. I mean, why have a universe that has such size and such limitations and then 'place/evolve' a species that is fundamentally curious!! Is it all by chance?

It's either

1. A sick joke to tortuse these poor beings (us)

2. There is a way around the current known limitations.

or

3. Its all by chance so deal with it

To me, is seems like the Earth is shrinking rapidly.

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Belief gets in the way of learning

ok folks ...being this type of thread. and mentioning gravity, electrodynamics, electronic propulsion etc... i am certain you will all find this one interesting..
can i ask you to seriously consider the following link..
feedback and comments most certainly welcome...

i am trying it out...

possible antigrav?

Sleestak, I like your idea but it's hard to imagine the engineering difficulties. Still, when engineering is invoked then theory has already been there so it's only a matter of time - in this case possibly a lot of time.

re. the electromagnetic force - what about the the nuclear forces, their known unification with the electromagetic force, and gravity? What effect could these have on faster than light travel? I think we need a lot better understanding of gravity and its relationship to the other three forces before we will know. By equating gravity with acceleration, general relativity brings time distortion into the equation. I have no idea how that fits but I have to think it plays an integral part in the speed of light.

Check out my copyright... Don't get me started. :)> Outside of what I've copyrighted: check out previous posts of mine that challenge the validity of time. i.e. time is a construct of man to order events and it's a tool, not a law. I beleive relativity to have a formulation law which I have investigated some and needs a lot of work to validate so I'm not up to backing that one up. Doesn't the time deviation only pop up if you return? Just don't go back. If I had a chance to leave and meet an alien race and could never come back... SEE YA!

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TEAM
LL

ok folks ...being this type of thread. and mentioning gravity, electrodynamics, electronic propulsion etc... i am certain you will all find this one interesting..
can i ask you to seriously consider the following link..
feedback and comments most certainly welcome...

i am trying it out...

possible antigrav?

It's been know for a long time that using EM forces can be used for antigravity devices (airplanes are technically antigravity craft) but the energy required on earth to effect reasonable size masses is enormous. Fun stuff.

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TEAM
LL

ok folks ...being this type of thread. and mentioning gravity, electrodynamics, electronic propulsion etc... i am certain you will all find this one interesting..
can i ask you to seriously consider the following link..
feedback and comments most certainly welcome...

i am trying it out...

possible antigrav?

It's been know for a long time that using EM forces can be used for antigravity devices (airplanes are technically antigravity craft) but the energy required on earth to effect reasonable size masses is enormous. Fun stuff.

Slight correction there Sleestak... the "energy" measured in voltages applied is large oh yes.. need 17 to 20 thousand volts to get it going. but the actual current flow is very small, because your talking about a capacitor type device.. it will have a large initial flow of current to charge it up.. then the current drops off to very small amounts.. high voltages are easily generated... its the high currents that cause problems and this device utilises low current when operational... so potentially a high voltage low current power source could be created to test this one further. I was aware of this EM principal years ago... this guys website is merely "RE-DISCOVERING" an old principal. he has trawelled through the patents sites and found these concepts... they first appeared 1929..

However continuing with the energy flow part... the desigh he exihibits on the site are proof of concept, his apparatus has the wrong shape and has yet to include multiple cathodes and is far to small. When voltages are raised to the 60-70K range you get some substantial resultant reactionary forces...eg call it directional force or lift if it is pionting upwards.

but the point... can we call it antigravity..? is it a gravitational effect.. or is it just a magnetic field effect reacting with the earths normal magnetic field to produce a repulsion from earth, only as long as you are within the earths field..?hmmmmmmmm

I'm not sure what you "corrected" but you added information.

From www.m-w.com
antigravity
2 entries found for antigravity.
To select an entry, click on it.
antigravity[1,adjective]antigravity[2,noun]

Main Entry: 1an·ti·grav·i·ty
Pronunciation: "an-ti-'gra-v&-tE, "an-"tI-
Function: adjective
: reducing, canceling, or protecting against the effect of gravity

Anyway, antigravity is using a force to oppose gravity and thus if it's used to oppose gravity, then it's an antigravity device.

The question that you are trying to ask and probably correct is: "is it gravity reversed"?

or better yet:

"is it gravity acting on gravity to produce the propulsion"?

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TEAM
LL

Speaking of "cloaking devices", todays BBC science:

Team 'to create cloaking device'

...These research papers present the maths required to verify that the concept could work, but building an actual device will take more time...

...These metamaterials can be designed to induce a desired change in the direction of electromagnetic waves, such as light. This is done by tinkering with the nano-scale structure of the metamaterial, not by altering its chemistry...

and in one of the associated articles:

The cloaking effect would exploit a resonance with light waves rather than sound waves.

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TEAM
LL

If we actually are being sequestered from the "UFP" because we're a batch of babbling baboons (well, actually, a planet-wide majority of religious idiots who refuse to think for themselves), it would be advanced cloaking technology that would indeed hide proof of alien civilizations, wouldn't it? Couldn't you cloak you immense 'starbase' so that civilizations on the edge of contact-allowable technology and social development (HA.)wouldn't detect it?

By the Stars (which ARE real), I just tremble and want to barf imagining someone like the pope or an ayatollah being our majority-representative emmisary to another planet.

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5070476612863849446&q=case+for+nasa&pl=true




.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

8. yes, even if all of the above would be wrong I think it's us humans that are the biggest thieves of communication, the worst cause of distrust, egoism, envy, stupidity.

I agree with most of this but to say mankind, as a whole, is guilty of 'egoism' is to pay it a compliment it does not deserve.......

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I subscribe to the theory (mine of course) that Earth is a penal colony. We are indeed from a lineage of higher intelligence, but somehow our genes were corrupted in some way. Our bretheren, who actually may be close by, determined that this planet was suitable for sustaining life, and in the interest of a more evolved society, banished us until further notice.

Evidence to support hypothesis:

1. "Ancient" mankind's recordable existence has all sorts of references to "higher beings." It's remarkable that recorded mankind (other than crude pictures) is limited to several millenia.

2. Australia was formed as a British penal colony. (yes there were occupying natives, but the transfer of people was done none-the-less)

3. There are "hints" of other life forms having come to Earth. "Verifiable" evidence is somewhat slim, but there are a lot of questions pointed this way.

4. We still can't seem to straighten ourselves out. (corrupted gene theory)

For all we know, the "signals" we have received just might be, "no one is at home right now. Please leave a message at the beep....beep....beep..."

I subscribe to the theory (mine of course) that Earth is a penal colony. We are indeed from a lineage of higher intelligence, but somehow our genes were corrupted in some way. Our bretheren, who actually may be close by, determined that this planet was suitable for sustaining life, and in the interest of a more evolved society, banished us until further notice.

Evidence to support hypothesis:

1. "Ancient" mankind's recordable existence has all sorts of references to "higher beings." It's remarkable that recorded mankind (other than crude pictures) is limited to several millenia.

2. Australia was formed as a British penal colony. (yes there were occupying natives, but the transfer of people was done none-the-less)

3. There are "hints" of other life forms having come to Earth. "Verifiable" evidence is somewhat slim, but there are a lot of questions pointed this way.

4. We still can't seem to straighten ourselves out. (corrupted gene theory)

For all we know, the "signals" we have received just might be, "no one is at home right now. Please leave a message at the beep....beep....beep..."

You should probably take alook at scientology then. Their studies have similar beliefs (i'm not joking).

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Belief gets in the way of learning